CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 4

[Whiteorchids]

Calm is what we see..He is NOT incapacitated nor unable to understand anything..He is following his "Marching Orders" act this way when Jury is in room...then you can act that way when they aren't....I heard JH was on Haldol..which actually is a marvellous medication.....They calm down and are able to answer questions appropriately and follow instructions..completely aware of surroundings and NO They are NOT sedated..But blocked from responding to whatever triggered aberrant behaviours .....

Most patient's I dealt with given this med in ER after being brought in OUT OF CONTROL..calmed down within 20 minutes of injection ( thru clothes @times)....and I was amazed just how cognoscenti they were...

I guess it's an unfair advantage I have had in dealing with OUT of control folks ( 25 years ER)..so, maybe hard for laypeople to understand just where I am coming from...Just take it as insight I guess :moo:

My sis is a nurse anesthetist and her husband just retired a ER dr of 35 years and now my Nephew a Dr. We've been through it all. Lol. Mental illness has my compassion. No one asked to be born with the predisposition of it. It usually doesn't show up in males until they are in their 20's but may be signs in the younger years.

 

[I'mjazzed]

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman · 2m2 minutes ago
Nava-Hernandez steps down. Next #theatershooting witness: Aurora fingerprint investigator Sandra Fisher.

 

[Hatfield]

Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. I'm probably one of the very few who feel really bad for his parents as well. Losing a son to this disease ( like a death) plus living with the fact their son killed and hurt all these innocent innocent people and their families. The wiring in the brain is very intricate and someone with this disease has completely screwed up wiring. I agree with defense that someone with severe mental illness can do this kind of planning as it progresses. listening to the voices and delusions they believe are real. When he said the psychiatrist programmed him to kill. I believe he was believing his delusions. If you've ever been to a mental hospital most severe mentally ill believe they are a celebrity on tv, being spied on by the CIA or being programmed by someone like the government. This is all too familiar. I believe the female psychiatrist (Fenton) should have had him put on a 5150 psychiatric hold than a 5250 and so on. He told her he wanted to kill people that is a homicidal thought that was enough to put him on the 5150 hold and have him committed. He was reaching out and no one did anything. Those are the conditions to put someone on a involuntary hold. Homicidal or suicidal thoughts. I hold those psychiatrist at the college liable too. They did nothing. When he dropped out of school that should have been a big red flag. If JH was mad at the school why didn't he shoot up the teachers and students of the college? I think his mind was deteriorating and that's why he was doing so badly at school. That kind of change is a sign. When he was looking down at his desk according to the witness staring through it. I believe he was listening to the voices and delusions in his head. Like my son he always listened to his headphones with that loud deep techno music trying to drown out the voices in his head. He would cover his head with pillows too. This should have never gone to trial. JH clearly has severe mental illness that eventually took over. He should be in a hospital. IMHO

I think most of us feel sorry for his parents and most of us here understand that the parents usually are not at fault for something like this. I know what you mean though that I have seen other comments not here on WS though where people think the parents should have done more to recognize how bad he was and try to stop him.

But what some people fail to realize is he fooled the parents just like he fooled the professors at school. A lot of people didnt realize how bad off he was.

I think punishment comes into play even for mentally ill people that do crimes as bad as he did since he seemed to know enough about what he was doing to know it was wrong and would hurt people. So not sure I totally agree that hosptital is the only punishment he should get for his case.

Now if it was someone that truly didnt realize the ramifications, then I may agree with that part. IMO, JH knew some of the ramifications and he didnt care.

 

[I'mjazzed]

a few seconds ago

Fisher used fingerprints to identify victims. Obtained fingerprints from all 12

Fisher compared the prints to DMV database, and 1 from military database

 

[I'mjazzed]

Fisher was able to confirm 10 IDs through prints.

a few seconds ago

Couldn't ID McQuinn that way, or Veronica Moser Sullivan

Fisher obtained prints from the defendant

 

[Whiteorchids]

I think most of us feel sorry for his parents and most of us here understand that the parents usually are not at fault for something like this. I know what you mean though that I have seen other comments not here on WS though where people think the parents should have done more to recognize how bad he was and try to stop him.

But what some people fail to realize is he fooled the parents just like he fooled the professors at school. A lot of people didnt realize how bad off he was.

I think punishment comes into play even for mentally ill people that do crimes as bad as he did since he seemed to know enough about what he was doing to know it was wrong and would hurt people. So not sure I totally agree that hosptital is the only punishment he should get for his case.

Now if it was someone that truly didnt realize the ramifications, then I may agree with that part. IMO, JH knew some of the ramifications and he didnt care.

I agree with the punishment except I believe like many others mentally ill people should not get the DP. Someone like Jodi Arias yes, she should have. IMO

 

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2 new results






The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 48s49 seconds ago
#theatershooting

For 10 of them, she used records from DMV to ID victims

 

[Maisiebelle]

I'll bet the visual of those theatre seats sent a chill down the backs of everyone who saw them... Back in the DAY> Most people like to be near an exit..called ability to exit in case of fire..or get away from the mass exiting after movie..Bet they will re-think that after seeing those seats!!

I have to admit I was always the one who would jump up to exit as soon as the movie was over. Now I think back to how busy it is when everyone is trying to leave at the same time it makes me realise how panicky people must have been that night


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[I'mjazzed]

The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 46s46 seconds ago
#theatershooting

She also has access to military database.

 

[I'mjazzed]

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman · 38s38 seconds ago
Only 2 she couldn't verify via fingerprints: Matt McQuinn (out-of-state driver's license) & Veronica Moser-Sullivan, 6. #theatershooting

a few seconds ago

Fisher confirms prints she collected, they are admitted as evidence

 

[colette]

I feel he knew what he was doing was wrong. (just the "who will come visit me in prison"on the dating site shows he knew it was wrong) Therefore he would not meet the standard to be found not guilty by reason of insanity, Yes he has problems but not insane IMO.

 

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a few seconds ago

Spengler up for the cross examination

 

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a few seconds ago

Spengler admitting to evidence photos she took of the defendant in October after the shooting, but they are not being published




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Phil Tenser

a few seconds ago

No questions from the jury, no re-direct. She is excused.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I think most of us feel sorry for his parents and most of us here understand that the parents usually are not at fault for something like this. I know what you mean though that I have seen other comments not here on WS though where people think the parents should have done more to recognize how bad he was and try to stop him.

But what some people fail to realize is he fooled the parents just like he fooled the professors at school. A lot of people didnt realize how bad off he was.

I think punishment comes into play even for mentally ill people that do crimes as bad as he did since he seemed to know enough about what he was doing to know it was wrong and would hurt people. So not sure I totally agree that hosptital is the only punishment he should get for his case.

Now if it was someone that truly didnt realize the ramifications, then I may agree with that part. IMO, JH knew some of the ramifications and he didnt care.

I don't believe he tried to fool the psychiatrist. He told her he wanted to kill people. He went to all his appointments. He tried to call on the night of the shooting. I'm curious what's in the package he mailed to her prior. Most people severely ill do try to hide from their family. Maybe he didn't want to worry them. Most people don't understand it and are even afraid to have friends with schizophrenia. They are feared people to those who don't know much about it.

 

[I'mjazzed]

a few seconds ago

The people call Peter Vincent Hunkar, Executive Dir. of Colorado Milk Marketing Board but previously was an FBI agent for 23-years

 

[Whiteorchids]

I feel he knew what he was doing was wrong. (just the "who will come visit me in prison"on the dating site shows he knew it was wrong) Therefore he would not meet the standard to be found not guilty by reason of insanity, Yes he has problems but not insane IMO.

Yes I believe he knew it was wrong but I also believe he was insane and gravely disabled when he shot up the theater. Jodi arias on the other hand who almost cut off Travis head had no excuse and should have got the death penalty.

 

[zoey]

I wonder if that symbol is the cross-hairs of a gun sight. With a Joker mask over 2 eyes.

I maybe trying to read too much into that symbol but cross-hair sights was the first thing I thought of and the 2 round circles look like the small mask the joker wore.

Some gun sights are not perfectly in the middle and the gun sights are getting fancy these days and are adjustable inside the sight.

IIRC he stated he did not plan on looking or being the joker. (Think he wanted this all on him)

 

[I'mjazzed]

a few seconds ago

Peter Hunkar worked white collar and evidence response team with FBI

 

[LyndyLoo]

Yes Halidol is one of the older meds but works very good on some. Everyone's side effects are different. Halidol made my son feel too sedated. It's just such a shame he wasn't stabilized on the proper meds before these young people had to die or be injured from this massacre.

I apologise..I was referring to crisis situation..Haldol was wonderful..but as you suggested long term use had it's difficulties..including withdrawal if NOT compliant ...We only used it to diffuse..initially..But it alwys comes down to compliance with patients for whatever med they are prescribed...IF not taken..or self reporting didn't truthful..then we end up with a horror show and roller coaster....
I feel bad for you sweet pea..It's such a hard burden to deal with!! Blessings to you and yours...Whenever a loved one is directly affected..It often makes you feel hogtied....Hippa has somehow dis-engaged Family supports..Makes me upset and back in my day..felt very bad and SAD for loving Family at times....

This changes tho once person ( your family member) is deemed or categorized as unable to be responsible for his/her own care..Then voila...Finally; Family can have information and input...

Unfortunately, many psych patients are manipulative and can Fool clinicians...once again leaving Family OUT OF LOOP!! That's what I mean about frustration!!

 

[I'mjazzed]

a few seconds ago

Peter Hunkar: His ERT went to 1690 Paris St. He participated in search of the dumpster and some bags of trash



Peter Hunkar recovered evidence from plastic bag and beside dumpster