CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

[Woodland]

Upward trajectory shots call for something we have heard nothing about - it would require an open door, as far as I can tell, and shots fired into the open door from an officer on the ground.

Or, was she shot when she was being pulled from the car? However, it would seem not from an officer that was pulling her from the car. What a shot for another officer to take though, if that happened, with an officer so close to her. Or was she thrown up against the car after being pulled from it and an officer kneeling? Would seem unnecessary to shoot her again though.

If the autopsy report reads correctly, there's another story waiting to be told. Jmo.

 

[al66pine]

Upward trajectory shots call for something we have heard nothing about - it would require an open door, as far as I can tell, and shots fired into the open door from an officer on the ground....
If the autopsy report reads correctly, there's another story waiting to be told. Jmo.

bbm sbm

Yes, upward trajectory of those 2 shots c/h/happened when car door was open.
.
Is it poss both those shots went through car door? Perhaps as LEO was firing while falling, perhaps while on the ground, as you said. Holes thru door? I could not tell from pix I saw.

 

[Woodland]

Hmmm, the bullet(s) traveled through the car door, from a distance (a measurement we don't know) then into her, with enough energy to still travel well into her body, and be enough to cause death or slow death?

Maybe an ammo expert can help? The amount of steel, or not, in that particular type of car door should have a bearing, imo.

 

[sherlockh]

There is something I don't understand from the autopsy report - maybe others can see it as logical though.

Page 1 -

Anatomic Diagnoses I Gunshot Wound of the Torso, Superior. Section E Trajectory - Left to right, back to front and upward.

vs

III Gunshot Wound of the Pelvis. Section E Trajectory - Left to right and downward.

Was expecting left to right, front to back and downward as she was sitting and officer(s) were standing on her left. Not comprehending back to front and upward.

Seems logical to me. First shots left to right, downward as the driver sits up straight, then after the driver slumps over to the right, shots have an upward trajectory. Relatively to the body of course. IMO.

 

[Woodland]

With all due respect, someone slumped over after being shot, should have the same downward trajectory if shot again - if the officer(s) was/were standing and firing from the same spot. No? Unable to comprehend an upward trajectory with any scenario with officer(s) firing from a standing position into a person sitting in a vehicle, from outside the drivers side door. Jmo.

Trust the story will continue to unfold and answer such questions.

 

[sherlockh]

With all due respect, someone slumped over after being shot, should have the same downward trajectory if shot again - if the officer(s) was/were standing and firing from the same spot. No? Unable to comprehend an upward trajectory with any scenario with officer(s) firing from a standing position into a person sitting in a vehicle, from outside the drivers side door. Jmo.

Trust the story will continue to unfold and answer such questions.

The bullet will have the same downward trajectory yes, but it will hit the body 'upward'. Not upward into the sky but upward relative to the body since the angle with the body is now larger than 90 degrees. So then after fallen to the right side the bullet goes 'upward' inside the body. I thought that is what the autopsy report meant

 

[Woodland]

Tried very hard to make your scenario work today sherlockh when I went out earlier. Couldn't do it myself.

The lower a vehicle is, as in a car (which Jessica was in) vs an SUV, the more one would have to aim downwards to hit someone slumped over to the right in the drivers seat. Even if the barrel of the gun was resting on the window ledge (which I doubt LE took or had the time to do) a person slumped over to the right is not sitting high enough for an upward trajectory.

Even if the person was slumped over and leaning up against a passenger, an upward trajectory is not doable. Straight on, from the back, would work in this case.

Jmo. Looking forward to hearing from an expert.

 

[Fred Hall]

How do these findings reflect on the speed that the car was traveling when it was fired upon? Aiming at a car that is accelerating across your field of view and firing at the exact instant that it passes you in order to score a precise side-on hit of the driver sounds difficult. And there was not one side-on hit but two. How long would it have taken to fire the two shots? If the car had been accelerating would there not have been time for only one side-on shot?

 

[al66pine]

How do these findings reflect on the speed that the car was traveling when it was fired upon? Aiming at a car that is accelerating across your field of view and firing at the exact instant that it passes you in order to score a precise side-on hit of the driver sounds difficult. And there was not one side-on hit but two. How long would it have taken to fire the two shots? If the car had been accelerating would there not have been time for only one side-on shot?

Fred Hall--
no answer to your questions, but a Big WELCOME to W/S.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

There is something I don't understand from the autopsy report - maybe others can see it as logical though.

Page 1 -

Anatomic Diagnoses I Gunshot Wound of the Torso, Superior. Section E Trajectory - Left to right, back to front and upward.

vs

III Gunshot Wound of the Pelvis. Section E Trajectory - Left to right and downward.

Was expecting left to right, front to back and downward as she was sitting and officer(s) were standing on her left. Not comprehending back to front and upward.

UBM

I'm not an expert but I believe that it's not uncommon for a bullet to change it's trajectory after entering a person's body. The bullet can deform and make random left, right, up, and down directions of travel in a body.

The autopsy report gives us a general idea of the trajectory of the bullets that struck Jessica Hernandez but not any precise measurement of how far off a center line the bullets traveled thru her body. Nor do we have any degrees of angle from the entrance wounds to where the bullets were recovered or the exit wounds.

Not enough information about the trajectory's to cause any concern for me. Seems pretty straightforward.

JMO.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/257233152/Jessica-Hernandez-Autopsy-Report

 

[Fred Hall]

UBM

I'm not an expert but I believe that it's not uncommon for a bullet to change it's trajectory after entering a person's body. The bullet can deform and make random left, right, up, and down directions of travel in a body.

The autopsy report gives us a general idea of the trajectory of the bullets that struck Jessica Hernandez but not any precise measurement of how far off a center line the bullets traveled thru her body. Nor do we have any degrees of angle from the entrance wounds to where the bullets were recovered or the exit wounds.

Not enough information about the trajectory's to cause any concern for me. Seems pretty straightforward.

JMO.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/257233152/Jessica-Hernandez-Autopsy-Report

The precise angle may be uncertain, but it does seem likely that the shots were fired through the drivers side window and not through the windshield as was initially implied by this statement by Chief White - "At some point, the original officer that responded to the scene, the vehicle started driving toward him, which pretty much had him between a car and a brick wall and a fence. Out of fear for his safety, he fired several shots and the other officer also fired several shots." The evidence seems go against this statement by Chief White and would seem to support the initial statement of one of the passengers that the officer fired though the drivers side window.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The precise angle may be uncertain, but it does seem likely that the shots were fired through the drivers side window and not through the windshield as was initially implied by this statement by Chief White - "At some point, the original officer that responded to the scene, the vehicle started driving toward him, which pretty much had him between a car and a brick wall and a fence. Out of fear for his safety, he fired several shots and the other officer also fired several shots." The evidence seems go against this statement by Chief White and would seem to support the initial statement of one of the passengers that the officer fired though the drivers side window.

Has there been an accounting of all of the rounds fired by the officers? It's apparent that the rounds fired from the left stuck Jessica. Perhaps rounds fired from the front of the car missed her and are not part of the autopsy.

Two officers fired at her.

Police say two Denver officers fired at Hernandez after she drove toward one of them. The case remains under investigation by the district attorney

JMO.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/27/jessica-hernandez-autopsy_n_6773040.html

 

[Fred Hall]

Has there been an accounting of all of the rounds fired by the officers? It's apparent that the rounds fired from the left stuck Jessica. Perhaps rounds fired from the front of the car missed her and are not part of the autopsy.

Two officers fired at her.




JMO.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/27/jessica-hernandez-autopsy_n_6773040.html

Yes, it's a little futile to speculate without the crime scene information. However, I can't make out any bullet holes in the windshield of the car. The photos are poor and I could be missing them but find it unlikely that the officer would have missed the car entirely when it was coming directly towards him.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes, it's a little futile to speculate without the crime scene information. However, I can't make out any bullet holes in the windshield of the car. The photos are poor and I could be missing them but find it unlikely that the officer would have missed the car entirely when it was coming directly towards him.

I'm, not sure how good of aim I'd have with a car suddenly coming towards me. I may hit the radiator, bumper, hood, mirror or miss the car entirely with some of the shots if I was in the same situation. I'd be more concerned with geting out of the way than making well aimed shots.

This still looks like a justified police shooting to me with what we know so far.

JMO.

 

[Fred Hall]

I'm, not sure how good of aim I'd have with a car suddenly coming towards me. I may hit the radiator, bumper, hood, mirror or miss the car entirely with some of the shots if I was in the same situation. I'd be more concerned with geting out of the way than making well aimed shots.

This still looks like a justified police shooting to me with what we know so far.

JMO.

Fair enough. I've never touched a handgun in my life I'm sure all the details will be in the official report when it comes out.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Fair enough. I've never touched a handgun in my life I'm sure all the details will be in the official report when it comes out.

Thanks for posting and welcome aboard. I hope that the details will be enough to satisfy everyone that has followed this case.

 

[Woodland]

The precise angle may be uncertain, but it does seem likely that the shots were fired through the drivers side window and not through the windshield as was initially implied by this statement by Chief White - "At some point, the original officer that responded to the scene, the vehicle started driving toward him, which pretty much had him between a car and a brick wall and a fence. Out of fear for his safety, he fired several shots and the other officer also fired several shots." The evidence seems go against this statement by Chief White and would seem to support the initial statement of one of the passengers that the officer fired though the drivers side window.

It would be impossible for an officer firing from the front of a vehicle to hit the driver of that vehicle in the back.

 

[Yoda]

It would be impossible for an officer firing from the front of a vehicle to hit the driver of that vehicle in the back.

I wouldn't say impossible. A bullet could have passed her, ricocheted off of the interior of the car somewhere and then struck her. Now having said that, the probability of that occurring is miniscule and I don't think that happened. JMO

From one of the photos it looked like there was a bullethole in the windshield, lower driver side. I agree with you FredHall, its hard to tell much from the photos available now.

 

[Fred Hall]

The Denver Post doesn't seem to think that the findings regarding the bullet directions are important. This headline they chose for their story on the medical findings makes no mention of the direction that she was shot from - "Autopsy: Jessica Hernandez shot three times; traces of alcohol, pot in her system"'. Traces of inebriants are more significant than the fact that she was shot from her side? The Fox31 Denver article on the autopsy presents the fact that she was shot from her left as a claim made by her family's lawyer and not a statement made by the Denver medical examiner. The TV news clip that accompanies the Fox31 Denver article makes no mention of bullet direction at all. Is it perhaps a sensitive issue?

 

[katydid23]

Has there been an accounting of all of the rounds fired by the officers? It's apparent that the rounds fired from the left stuck Jessica. Perhaps rounds fired from the front of the car missed her and are not part of the autopsy.

Two officers fired at her.

JMO.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/27/jessica-hernandez-autopsy_n_6773040.html

I am thinking the same. I don't think the officer in front of the car was aiming too well. Probably more concerned with jumping out of the way. The other officer probably got those 3 sots off from the side of the car. JMO