CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #17 *ARREST*

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  • #121
I also would like to add to that line of thinking - PF's accomplice is someone he knew and thought he could trust. I really don't think it's anyone he found online or through the dark web. If this is true, that would make the list of suspected accomplices very small, IMO. Close friends, family, and/or ranch workers of PF seem to be a very tight circle. Who would make that list?
Edited to add more
Absolutely! Trust! And while they may have refused to kill, they were willing to take the phone back home and send some texts.
 
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  • #122
Colorado sleuthers, how far north would PF have to go to get the idea snow conditions to quickly cover a grave or her body that would be difficult for others to reach and that would stay covered. Where do you think would be the perfect disposal site knowing what you know about Colorado?
I've lived in CO over 35 years. But the issue wouldn't be going north if you wanted to keep someone buried in snow but the trick is going UP. The further you go north in CO the lower it is in elevation. Woodland Park is about 8500' Colorado Springs 6500, Denver 5300' and when you get to the northern border of CO it is about 5000' or less. There are some places high that still have snow in July and virtually year round. The trouble is that it is solid rock. We used to climb a 14er every weekend and 1 every month in the winter time and it was not uncommon to see snow on the shaded areas of the peaks that didn't get any sunlight, especially in gullies and draws and such. Not much snow on the Peak now but will probably get a foot of it today, tonight and tomorrow just due to the elevation. If it were me I would dispose on some of the wild forest land within 50 miles of there. You could drive up say 67 towards Cripple Creek and over the edge of the road is 1000' drop or more and too steep to hike unless you climb with a harness and ropes. That would be the lazy way as it is just a matter of tossing out of the car off the edge of the road. A more sure way would be down an abandoned mine. Some of these abandoned mines are so remote it is only gonna be you and Jesus, that is how remote some of these are. People don't understand the vastness and remoteness of some of this area. So much of it has never been hiked as it is just too steep to hike.
 
  • #123
Idle musing - If you are gonna commit a crime, do not take a phone with you, and immediately destroy into little pieces, any phones of your victim, and get rid of them for forever......Involve no other people and keep your mouth shut for forever.....MOO
True, BUT they will still have your cell records and if you destroy your phone but you've been using it 24/7 prior to that, it WILL be used against you.
 
  • #124
If they do not find her body, what are the chances of the DA dropping the charges to a Guilty Plea of second degree murder (maximum 24 years sentence in Colorado, with your first chance of parole in 5 years) in exchange for info leading to her body's recovery ?
That's what happened in the case of Hans/Nina Reiser in CA. Hans was actually convicted of first degree murder, but later pleaded to second degree in exchange for revealing the location of the body of his estranged wife. We will see what happens, but I predict this case will play out differently. MOO.
 
  • #125
I think he secured the baby so as to have physical custody, and arranged for the texts, as well as his alibi, hoping it would lead toward the idea of her leaving, and something happening to her en route. She took a week off, handed over baby, and split, as far as he knew. As long as he had the child when she was discovered to be missing, it made it much easier to keep her. Offering DNA to prove custody, if that is why, would not implicate him, since he knew her, spent time at her home etc.

But with pre-planning...leaving her cars there was a weird oversight.

Also if family were “helpers” in his plot...would that be more of a conspiracy than a solicitation? I guess solicitation to me involves money. Whereas a family plot seems otherwise. Jmo
 
  • #126
Actually he kept it simple, he just told people that he wasn't in a real relationship with her any longer, he used language like "custody exchange" to distance himself and then just let other make the story for him. Even on here we had a great many people wondering if she was in a rehab center, or had run off with another man or had taken a plane somewhere to start a new life. So if posters on WS were filling in the blanks that way, just imagine how the average person on the street (PF's friends, family and community) would fill in the blanks.
2-3 mistakes PF made, moo...
1. He didn't go to the press conferences...
2. He wouldn't let CB see the baby...
3. And if he would have wrapped and put up the cinnamon rolls...
 
  • #127
The issue of the gag order request is expected to come up at Frazee's next appearance at 8:30 a.m. Monday in Teller County District Court. Prosecutors are also expected to charge him. In addition to first-degree murder, Frazee also is suspected of soliciting murder, implying that someone else was involved or that Frazee tried to enlist someone in the alleged killing.
Prosecutors fight 'gag order' request in alleged murder of Woodland Park woman
 
  • #128
The issue of the gag order request is expected to come up at Frazee's next appearance at 8:30 a.m. Monday in Teller County District Court. Prosecutors are also expected to charge him. In addition to first-degree murder, Frazee also is suspected of soliciting murder, implying that someone else was involved or that Frazee tried to enlist someone in the alleged killing.
Prosecutors fight 'gag order' request in alleged murder of Woodland Park woman
Hello, Seattle. I believe the Judge has now denied the "gag order" request and links are posted a little ways back in the prior thread.
 
  • #129
He's arrogant, that's true. But I would hope his family or his mother will convince him to do the right thing. Even if his family hated Kelsey, they certainly wouldn't want the baby to have wonder for the rest of her life where her mother is.

Men seem to not admit to murdering partners very often, imo, unless they can get a significant deal. And I can’t see PF admitting anything anyway, but also can’t see what kind of a deal prosecution would be willing to give. If she is not found, he may well feel it is best to stay silent, as a better chance of either being acquitted or getting a new trial later, etc...will be very surprised if he admits anything at all. Jmo
 
  • #130
Actually he kept it simple, he just told people that he wasn't in a real relationship with her any longer, he used language like "custody exchange" to distance himself and then just let other make the story for him. Even on here we had a great many people wondering if she was in a rehab center, or had run off with another man or had taken a plane somewhere to start a new life. So if posters on WS were filling in the blanks that way, just imagine how the average person on the street (PF's friends, family and community) would fill in the blanks.


Yes to all of this! I agree with your lie theory as well. There were several people to have reported unsubstantiated claims about KB as you stated above. To me it would make sense those seeds have been planted along the way whether for pathological reasons or in preparation to follow through with the plan of murder.

Keeping up with lies would be exhausting and never ending. I imagine they began as little white lies online and morphed from there. I also wonder how much contact KB had with his family.....were lies told to both sides to keep them from connecting the dots?
 
  • #131
I don't think the baby was the driving force. I think he didn't want to get married, didn't want to leave his mother's home, didn't want to grow up and getting rid of Kelsey made it all go away. He could keep his life the way it was if she was gone. JMO

But he could do all of those things if she simply stayed in CO with baby, or moved away. Imo he wanted full custody but not the relationship.
 
  • #132
not sure if I can post this so if I can't someone let me know and i'll delete if not but

I have been monitoring someones social media (a connection he has in Twin Lakes) and this morning it went bye bye. they kept their instagram but took off the profile picture (was already private). hmmmmm
 
  • #133
I don't think the baby was the driving force. I think he didn't want to get married, didn't want to leave his mother's home, didn't want to grow up and getting rid of Kelsey made it all go away. He could keep his life the way it was if she was gone. JMO
I think he didn't want to marry Kelsey anymore, but not necessarily never move out of his mother's home. What he needed was someone who can MAKE that happen without him putting in too much effort. KB stuck her ground. YOU, PF, are NOT moving in without a solid commitment. So, KB wouldn't give him what he wanted. Maybe instead of KB's parents helping her to buy a home he was expecting they would buy a ranch for HIM. KB's parents made the house purchase possible for their daughter as often rent is more costly than a 30 year mortgage. But I am sure, they did not want him moving in either and a year later leaving and claiming he owns half of everything due to "common law." PF needed a wealthier sugar mama.
Edit: bigger to wealthier. size had nothing to do with it :)
 
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  • #134
Hello, Seattle. I believe the Judge has now denied the "gag order" request and links are posted a little ways back in the prior thread.

There's no order posted on the Judicial Branch webpage yet, only the prosecution's response.
 
  • #135
I can't get it though my thick head how PF could take KB's phone and ping it in Idaho (or have someone do it)... and not take her suitcase, some clothes, and personal belongings. PF may not be very bright, but he doesn't take me as stupid.

Missing phone, purse, and travel items would be a solid story with minimal effort, not to convince me, but a jury by using a good lawyer- there is no body and there is evidence she left on her own to head north to see family. "I'll take care of the baby until she decides to return."

As detective Sipowicz once said on NYPD Blue, "I went in wid a plan, I came out, I got nuttin'."

The 1st degree murder and solicitation charge indicate evidence of planning a murder.

I don't think it went as planned, either time wise or pulling it off. And this is good, as far as leaving bread crumbs.

I have been wondering if somehow he caught wind of the next door neighbor being out of town, and rushed his plan because of finding out that fact. It’s my understanding that Kelsey lived in a duplex, correct? So, she shared an interior wall and a parking area?

I haven’t been able to find the exact video, but I saw an aerial video of Kelsey’s home. To me, it looked like if PF parked sideways behind Kelsey’s vehicles, and her next door neighbor parked in his/her space, PF could potentially get blocked in. But if PF knew that the neighbor was out of town, he wouldn’t have worried about getting blocked in. (Or having someone hear a murder and body removal, for that matter).

Anyway, just a thought on a potential reason for PF to improvise or change the timing of an existing plan.

MOO
 
  • #136
Absolutely! Trust! And while they may have refused to kill, they were willing to take the phone back home and send some texts.
Might have even been that PF handed to phone off to someone to send texts, but assumed they'd be sent from CO. Maybe the person who took the phone sent the texts without knowing they'd be traced to ID.
 
  • #137
The solicitation charge refers to enlisting another person “to commit another crime,” whether it’s burglary, robbery or murder, May said.
“(It’s a crime) if you’re soliciting someone to help out, and it isn’t just a discussion,” May said.
De Young said more arrests are “an absolute possibility.”
May said details about the solicitation charge will be released when Frazee is charged

So we'll get this info when PF is at his first appearance, I expect. Any date yet?

Missing Woodland Park woman, Kelsey Berreth, presumed dead; fiance arrested in her murder
 

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  • #138
Back to the Cinnamon Rolls. A better rehearsed person would have put away the baked goods and packed an overnight bag to give the illusion she left on her own free will. For that reason, I believe he orchestrated the "text strategy" after she was killed. I wouldn't be surprised if as late as Thursday morning, he still believed the person he solicited was going to move forward with the crime---and he didn't give a hoot about an alibi!

I think we were thinking along the same lines at the same time. Love your post!

Haha, I have tried forgetting that I have ever heard about cinnamon rolls, but yes, that too! Would have made my point better, thanks.
 
  • #139
I think he secured the baby so as to have physical custody, and arranged for the texts, as well as his alibi, hoping it would lead toward the idea of her leaving, and something happening to her en route. She took a week off, handed over baby, and split, as far as he knew. As long as he had the child when she was discovered to be missing, it made it much easier to keep her. Offering DNA to prove custody, if that is why, would not implicate him, since he knew her, spent time at her home etc.

But with pre-planning...leaving her cars there was a weird oversight.

Also if family were “helpers” in his plot...would that be more of a conspiracy than a solicitation? I guess solicitation to me involves money. Whereas a family plot seems otherwise. Jmo
My thoughts are it was just extra work to try and dispose of a car. I've mentioned before, he likely figured he could use this to further his lies and imply not only were they broken up she was seeing someone else already. Just a thought.
 
  • #140
But he could do all of those things if she simply stayed in CO with baby, or moved away. Imo he wanted full custody but not the relationship.
True, but I'm working from the standpoint that he didn't want the child either. Maybe it's the way he carried her, or that he constantly used her as a buffer or just his general detached behavior, but I don't believe he cared for the child any more than he cared for Kelsey.
 
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