CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #26 *ARREST*

[PommyMommy]

There is a man missing from Aguilar since 2016. I think it's more likely these remains could be his. I made a thread for him here: CO - CO - William Christopher Brown, 58, Aguilar, 7 July 2016

Could be, looks like he was very thin. I don't think the body found was Kelsey, but at least one family may receive answers today. So awful.

 

[makayla]

I haven’t read through posts since last night, but in thinking about this case I’m finding it hard to believe that KK’s involvement is innocent. It’s obvious PF planned Kelsey’s demise, and it was not a sudden crime of passion. I don’t know when we’ll find out more about the relationship between PF and KK, but it’s too much of a “coincidence” that KK would be the one who was disposing of Kelsey’s cell phone. I’m almost convinced she sent those texts as requested by PF. Perhaps there is someone else in Idaho that is involved, but again, it’s such a “coincidence” that the phone would end up half an hour from where KK lives. I’m sure LE has detailed tracking on PF and KK through credit cards or cell phone records, and I will look forward to hearing more on that when that information is released. My question about KK is when did LE latch on to her information, and when did she start talking? I’m sure they have lots of eyes on her if she’s not in protective custody.

I think PF is perfectly capable of committing this murder by himself, and I would guess he probably just drove over to Kelsey’s on Thanksgiving Day under the guise of taking her and little K out to dinner, or at the very least picking up little K.

What surprises me most is that on the initial search of Kelsey’s home, LE didn’t notice anything that stood out as a murder scene. Perhaps PF did a great clean up job, but obviously on the second search by LE, they found sufficient evidence to charge PF with murder. Was he able to paint over the evidence so it wasn’t noticed right away? Did someone tip off LE or did they find digital evidence that a murder took place there? I still have questions on all of this, as I know many of you do as well. Whatever happened in Kelsey’s home that day and in the days after must not have triggered suspicion by neighbors, or at least we haven’t heard about it.

All of the above IMHO ...

 

[Gardener1850]

Gardener, you have articulated this theory much better than I did.

Rather than overtly recruit KK to help plan KB’s demise, he may have groomed her more subtly.

Made her believe he was a great guy with a horrible ex-fiancée. By TG, she is hooked on the thought of a future with him. Dependent on him, in fact.

In the aftermath of the ‘accident’, in her mind, only she could save him from unjust imprisonment. Only she could salvage their chance of a life together. And, well, it was just an accident after all. And it’s just disposing of stuff. And the end would justify the means.

He probably wasn’t trying to make it look like a robbery. But it’s not a bad idea to use that as a defence if it looks like Plan A has gone belly-up.

MOO

Thank you. To add to the robbery theory I was also thinking PF might have told KK (or others) nasty lies about KB. He might have claimed he was constantly giving KB money for the baby and loaning her money for her bills and she was never paying for anything even though she worked all the time and had the money to pay him back. He could claim she had a gambling problem if he wanted to. He could paint her anyway he wanted to those who would never meet her or get to know her well enough to know it wasn't true. PF could have told friends or even his family members that KB owed him money and he grabbed her purse to take what she owed him but she wouldn't let go of the purse and then when she did let go she fell backwards over the knee wall in the upstairs of her townhouse. That could also be charged as murder in the course of a robbery IMO. I don't believe that's what happened but I believe PF would spin such a tale to get someone to hide KB's purse and phone after he murdered KB and hid her body. I think he tried to make himself seem innocent to whomever he got to help him after the murder and that person is talking to police now telling PF's version. Unless they find KB's body there might not be enough evidence to prove his version of events is bull hockey. So they added that charge to cover their bases-- either way he is going down for felonious murder in the 1st degree. MOO.

 

[BingoBongo]

Well, I'm going to take a shot at this. I'm 10 pages behind in reading this thread, but what the heck. I've explained this in a previous thread.

Snipped for brevity.

EXACTLY!

If one reads up on many cases of SO murder, you'll see the same behaviors.

It's both fascinating, and frightening. And seems to me, we are seeing more and more of the murderous narcissist as time goes on.

My belief, at this point, is that KB began to see the real PF, began to call him out on his crap (maybe in the hope he'd change, although they never do?), and his inner rage began to work on him...add to that the fact that he already had another ego-stroker (maybe more for all we know) on the side, and he decided it was time to lose KB.

Hoping this is brought to a resolution soon, for the sake of her family...and hope HIS family sees the truth of him, and maybe themselves.

 

[Mimi in London]

Thank you. To add to the robbery theory I was also thinking PF might have told KK (or others) nasty lies about KB. He might have claimed he was constantly giving KB money for the baby and loaning her money for her bills and she was never paying for anything even though she worked all the time and had the money to pay him back. He could claim she had a gambling problem if he wanted to. He could paint her anyway he wanted to those who would never meet her or get to know her well enough to know it wasn't true. PF could have told a friends or even his family members that KB owed him money and he grabbed her purse to take what she owed him but she wouldn't let go of the purse and then when she did let go she fell backwards over the knee wall in the upstairs of her townhouse. That could also be charged as murder in the course of a robbery IMO. I don't believe that's what happened but I believe PF would spin such a tale to get someone to hide KB's purse and phone after he murdered KB and hid her body. I think he tried to make himself seem innocent to whomever he got to help him after the murder and that person is talking to police now telling PF's version. Unless they find KB's body there might not be enough evidence to prove his version of events is bull hockey. So they added that charge to cover their bases-- either way he is going down for felonious murder in the 1st degree. MOO.

Wow. None of that would surprise me.

 

[The Night Watchman]

Logical thinking leads us to believe that if LE event A happened one day, and then LE event B happened the next day, then event B happened because of what happened on the first day.

For example-

PF at the dump on 12/19, then LE at KB's condo on 12/20: therefore something at the dump led LE back to the condo.

LE at KB's condo on 12/20 and 12/21, then PF is arrested on 12/22: therefore something at the second search of the condo led to PF's arrest.

I don't necessarily agree since there are a lot of LE "events" taking place that we aren't aware of. Have to remember that evidence is being processed from Day 1 that LE began investigating. Critical lab results can drop in anytime.

I go back to the crater in front of PF's ranchette from the search warrant. A septic tank or field has been mentioned, but you only need a shovel to access a tank, and you probably can't rip up a septic field and not replace it (no port a potties seen at ranchette- thank you @retiredrickyinCO).

So what was the digging for? Did trucks leave with dirt? I don't remember this being reported. It would take time to sort through huge amounts of dirt. But why else would you dig? I can't imagine a body was found there.

What about the large barn on the property? This is a location where PF could deal with a body out of sight. Could there be blood or tissue evidence in the barn? Activity to make sure KB was never found?

From satellite images before the warrant, the dig areas looks like a small ravine and not a septic field. Could cleaning fluids or acids have been dumped into it, maybe with trace evidence of human tissue?

Not sure what my point is, beyond that I think we will may eventually find the search warrant at the ranchette was more important than the condo searches.

They went there looking for something.

 

[The Night Watchman]

Here is the pic of PF's ranchette from retiredrickyinCO's 360° image from yesterday, showing the house, dig area, and barn.

Couldn't figure out how to add it to my post after the fact.

 

[karinbean_]

Could human remains found near an abandoned truck stop in Colorado be Kelsey Berreth? | Daily Mail Online

Likely DM clickbait but this came up during my search if the coroner identified the body.

 

[susiQ]

Not a far stretch that it could be KB's body found.
Simple theory:
Do the deed, send the phone north-west with KK with instructions to send fake text,
While he heads south and dumps the body.

I just don't know anymore. If he didn't want a body found, that wouldn't be where to put it. Also, that means he wasn't hoping for any $$ seeing it would take a long while for an insurance co. to pay out. If he DID want a body found, that would be stupid place to put it. It would then have made more sense to put it on the way to ID to shore up his story that she was headed that way with someone to visit her granny and she came to foul play at the hands of someone else along the way. JMT

 

[Tobywankenobi]

In order for Police to file murder they have to have some significant evidence that KB is not with us anymore. I do not believe a simple month without electronic trace or contact would give the confidence to do that.

I believe the evidence taken from her town house includes enough evidence that a reasonable person will agree with that location being where she met with foul play. Murder trials are expensive, this case has tremendous media exposure, and the DA being an elected official will not risk his reelection without some certainty he can close this trail in his favor. W hat that evidence is is being closely guarded so we may not know until the trial, but I believe it is significant. MOO

 

[BingoBongo]

Thank you. To add to the robbery theory I was also thinking PF might have told KK (or others) nasty lies about KB. He might have claimed he was constantly giving KB money for the baby and loaning her money for her bills and she was never paying for anything even though she worked all the time and had the money to pay him back. He could claim she had a gambling problem if he wanted to. He could paint her anyway he wanted to.

Snipped.

This is exactly what narcissists do. Once the "honeymoon" has worn off, either because they are tired of the current supply, or the current supply has begun to figure them out, they begin their smear campaign to any and all who will listen.

And it's one way they often use to target their next supply, "my wife/girlfriend was/is such a pig, liar, cheat, bad person, etc. Don't you feel sorry for me?"

 

[susiQ]

Thank you. To add to the robbery theory I was also thinking PF might have told KK (or others) nasty lies about KB. He might have claimed he was constantly giving KB money for the baby and loaning her money for her bills and she was never paying for anything even though she worked all the time and had the money to pay him back. He could claim she had a gambling problem if he wanted to. He could paint her anyway he wanted to those who would never meet her or get to know her well enough to know it wasn't true. PF could have told friends or even his family members that KB owed him money and he grabbed her purse to take what she owed him but she wouldn't let go of the purse and then when she did let go she fell backwards over the knee wall in the upstairs of her townhouse. That could also be charged as murder in the course of a robbery IMO. I don't believe that's what happened but I believe PF would spin such a tale to get someone to hide KB's purse and phone after he murdered KB and hid her body. I think he tried to make himself seem innocent to whomever he got to help him after the murder and that person is talking to police now telling PF's version. Unless they find KB's body there might not be enough evidence to prove his version of events is bull hockey. So they added that charge to cover their bases-- either way he is going down for felonious murder in the 1st degree. MOO.

Precisely one of my points about narcs. They will lie till the cows come home to put all the blame on the victim and preserve their own image. And, as many victims are isolated to a degree and don't know these people, the narc gets away with it. These are the "flying monkeys" a victim cannot defend themselves against and in due course repeat the accusations to others they know in PF's defence. We've seen them on the news
edit:sp

 

[Tobywankenobi]

Could human remains found near an abandoned truck stop in Colorado be Kelsey Berreth? | Daily Mail Online

Likely DM clickbait but this came up during my search if the coroner identified the body.

In order for Police to file murder they have to have some significant evidence that KB is not with us anymore. I do not believe a simple month without electronic trace or contact would give the confidence to do that.

I believe the evidence taken from her town house includes enough evidence that a reasonable person will agree with that location being where she met with foul play. Murder trials are expensive, this case has tremendous media exposure, and the DA being an elected official will not risk his reelection without some certainty he can close this trail in his favor. W hat that evidence is is being closely guarded so we may not know until the trial, but I believe it is significant. MOO

=========================================
Look, this gives me the creeps. But I think there's blood evidence and lots of it. I think he and someone else killed her and ex-sanguinated her in her own bathrtub, or did as much as possible. And flushed some of the remains as well. That could take a long time, and then they did a pretty good clean up, too, by the sounds of it, including new drywall and paint etc. But something PF disposed of at the dump with his friends, whether the sawzall or something else, sent LE right back to KB's house and they partially dismantled parts of the interior. Found all the blood. At the same time they learned who PF had been calling and texting when he turned over his phone and tracked down KK. IMO I still think they'd have more remains to dispose of, but could be anywhere. I hope they're grilling the two guys who helped him at the dump.

 

[dkryder]

Logical thinking leads us to believe that if LE event A happened one day, and then LE event B happened the next day, then event B happened because of what happened on the first day.

For example-

PF at the dump on 12/19, then LE at KB's condo on 12/20: therefore something at the dump led LE back to the condo.

LE at KB's condo on 12/20 and 12/21, then PF is arrested on 12/22: therefore something at the second search of the condo led to PF's arrest.

I don't necessarily agree since there are a lot of LE "events" taking place that we aren't aware of. Have to remember that evidence is being processed from Day 1 that LE began investigating. Critical lab results can drop in anytime.

I go back to the crater in front of PF's ranchette from the search warrant. A septic tank or field has been mentioned, but you only need a shovel to access a tank, and you probably can't rip up a septic field and not replace it (no port a potties seen at ranchette- thank you @retiredrickyinCO).

So what was the digging for? Did trucks leave with dirt? I don't remember this being reported. It would take time to sort through huge amounts of dirt. But why else would you dig? I can't imagine a body was found there.

What about the large barn on the property? This is a location where PF could deal with a body out of sight. Could there be blood or tissue evidence in the barn? Activity to make sure KB was never found?

From satellite images before the warrant, the dig areas looks like a small ravine and not a septic field. Could cleaning fluids or acids have been dumped into it, maybe with trace evidence of human tissue?

Not sure what my point is, beyond that I think we will may eventually find the search warrant at the ranchette was more important than the condo searches.

They went there looking for something.

well, yeah. to obtain a search warrant LE has to list specific reasons for the search request. but i think that is sealed. so if they stated that they have a reason to think a body, or remains, may be located on the property then they have to dig. i doubt they listed a specific location or even had reason to suspect a specific location. unless, of course, the fbi has the ability to do advanced satelitte image recon of a property and they had been watching for awhile and knew someone was doing something in that area. but, the fact that they dug just means to me that it was part of the warrant and they had to.

 

[cmiller8617]

If this is KB's remains, I think the ping in Idaho was not supposed to happen. IMO

 

[karinbean_]

If this is KB's remains, I think the ping in Idaho was not supposed to happen. IMO

The ping in Idaho, IMO was a direct result of KK's trek back home after the holiday. MOO, but I feel she sent the texts to PF and Doss. The body could've been transported the other direction by PF or another accomplice, with the intent to completely throw off the path of her disappearance as PF's story has her heading to WA to see extended family (which is really amusing - who drives all that way and leaves their infant at home?)

 

[JKathryn]

Could human remains found near an abandoned truck stop in Colorado be Kelsey Berreth? | Daily Mail Online

Likely DM clickbait but this came up during my search if the coroner identified the body.

It says "body parts" but taking that with a grain of salt.

 

[PrairieWind]

Logical thinking leads us to believe that if LE event A happened one day, and then LE event B happened the next day, then event B happened because of what happened on the first day.

For example-

PF at the dump on 12/19, then LE at KB's condo on 12/20: therefore something at the dump led LE back to the condo.

LE at KB's condo on 12/20 and 12/21, then PF is arrested on 12/22: therefore something at the second search of the condo led to PF's arrest.

I don't necessarily agree since there are a lot of LE "events" taking place that we aren't aware of. Have to remember that evidence is being processed from Day 1 that LE began investigating. Critical lab results can drop in anytime.

I go back to the crater in front of PF's ranchette from the search warrant. A septic tank or field has been mentioned, but you only need a shovel to access a tank, and you probably can't rip up a septic field and not replace it (no port a potties seen at ranchette- thank you @retiredrickyinCO).

So what was the digging for? Did trucks leave with dirt? I don't remember this being reported. It would take time to sort through huge amounts of dirt. But why else would you dig? I can't imagine a body was found there.

What about the large barn on the property? This is a location where PF could deal with a body out of sight. Could there be blood or tissue evidence in the barn? Activity to make sure KB was never found?

From satellite images before the warrant, the dig areas looks like a small ravine and not a septic field. Could cleaning fluids or acids have been dumped into it, maybe with trace evidence of human tissue?

Not sure what my point is, beyond that I think we will may eventually find the search warrant at the ranchette was more important than the condo searches.

They went there looking for something.

I think (just speculating) that some of the timing was just coincidental. I still hold that the dump trip was unrelated to Kelsey's disappearance. I recall the chief saying that information obtained from interviews is what led them back to Kelsey's home. I think someone (KK possibly) gave LE some idea of specifically what to look for at KB's home (ie blood in a very specific place, or something in a drain). As for the search of PF's ranchette, I think they found very little. I speculate that maybe cadaver dogs had a possible hit on that area that was dug up, but they found nothing. However, I do think they maybe found something in his red truck. It was hauled off and never returned.

 

[susiQ]

well, yeah. to obtain a search warrant LE has to list specific reasons for the search request. but i think that is sealed. so if they stated that they have a reason to think a body, or remains, may be located on the property then they have to dig. i doubt they listed a specific location or even had reason to suspect a specific location. unless, of course, the fbi has the ability to do advanced satelitte image recon of a property and they had been watching for awhile and knew someone was doing something in that area. but, the fact that they dug just means to me that it was part of the warrant and they had to.

I always doubted they were looking for a body with that dig on the ranchette. I just don't think using a back hoe is the way they look for a body. It must have been something else. Ashes, acid? Does the house have a grey water line? Not legal in most parts but people still have them to avoid having septic pumped out too often. JMT. That huge hole in the ground baffles me as to what they hoped to find.

 

[SoVeryMe]

=========================================
Look, this gives me the creeps. But I think there's blood evidence and lots of it. I think he and someone else killed her and ex-sanguinated her in her own bathrtub, or did as much as possible. And flushed some of the remains as well. That could take a long time, and then they did a pretty good clean up, too, by the sounds of it, including new drywall and paint etc. But something PF disposed of at the dump with his friends, whether the sawzall or something else, sent LE right back to KB's house and they partially dismantled parts of the interior. Found all the blood. At the same time they learned who PF had been calling and texting when he turned over his phone and tracked down KK. IMO I still think they'd have more remains to dispose of, but could be anywhere. I hope they're grilling the two guys who helped him at the dump.

This is how I’m leaning as well....I think there’s a good possibility LE has recovered tissue or some type of remains.....there doesn’t seem to be any active searches for her body so I would guess there probably isn’t much left. IMO