CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #28 *ARREST*

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  • #381
  • #382
It appears Colorado can keep charges from the public. I did not know this could happen and maybe there could be charges already on KK and maybe they are hidden for the moment if LE is making an agreement with her to testify against PK.

Shrouded justice: Thousands of Colorado court cases hidden from public view on judges’ orders – The Denver Post
But PF's attorney has to be told that KK has been charged and what she was charged with if she is going to testify against PF. His attorney would be able to bring up whether or not a deal was offered, including lesser charges where more severe charges were/are warranted, in exchange for testimony. The jury needs to know that in order to properly weigh the testimony.
 
  • #383
Maybe he was slightly odd? I am reading a book about school shooters. One of them was obviously odd (but likable!) and used to say things like "I'd love kill to be in a mafia group". He was obsessed with gangsters. But he was viewed as slightly odd so no one, including his girlfriends, took his statements seriously, they were part of the whole package, so to say. And then he shot and killed people. In hindsight, it looks scary.

I wonder if it was PF's issue. A reclusive guy, a cowboy, maybe slightly off but a good neighbor, so whatever he said was always slightly misunderstood? "Oh, you know Patrick. Patrick is Patrick". Until this happened.

Maybe. But I suspect he was more social. People liked him. He knew how to manipulate women and get what he wanted. That's my feeling.
 
  • #384
I really wish we were given the entire interview instead of this piecemeal! So many unanswered questions. I wasn't aware of the occupation of the whistle blowers and/or bff when I first watched the interview. I'm now wondering if KK told her bff about a man allegedly soliciting her-- not as her confidant, but trying to feel her out for free legal advice, and why the bff went to her attorney employer to begin with (who responded by suggesting KK contact him personally). And then, we don't know when-- whether the next day, a week,... KK tells them to forget it -- perpetuating the idea it's not serious, maybe just a guy blowing off steam. Legally thinking, the Attorney, and maybe even the bff, would understand that verbally soliciting a crime in itself is not actionable -- there's additional requirements to satisfy the statute. I want to know the rest of the story!! Did the subject never come up again until Thanksgiving? Later? How did the whole thing unfold within their own walls? When did KK realize PF was serious? Give us more, please.

ETA: Colorado criminal solicitation link posted in earlier thread provided a good example for solicitation

  • Example: One night Lenny and Mickey are having a beer, when Lenny says to Mickey, “What do you say we kill my wife? That woman needs to die.” Without anything further, Lenny is guilty of nothing more than blowing off steam.
  • But... let's say that after Lenny's wife gets killed, the police discover a history of Google queries on Lenny's computer asking the going rate for a hired killer. The prosecutor also finds several of Lenny's friends who testify that Lenny was always discussing scenarios for getting rid of his wife. A jury could find these to be circumstances strongly corroborative of Lenny's intent to kill his wife.
MOO
Putting conversations in the context of KK talking to friend in legal industry who takes it to bosses that are lawyers sounds less insane. Great point!
 
  • #385
I just don't see PF expecting KK to physically carry out the murder herself but assist him with acquiring a 3rd party. MOO
I think this as well - and if she is cooperating she may have told LE any names she gave PF?
The teaser on the R's interview is they will talk about the CO trip - Then on Sunday the R family explains what they were told about Krystal’s alleged trip to Colorado that led investigators to execute search warrants here in Idaho.
Twin Falls couple discusses tough call to FBI
Why would the FBI tell them anything about this alleged trip??
 
  • #386
  • #387
I think this as well - and if she is cooperating she may have told LE any names she gave PF?
The teaser on the R's interview is they will talk about the CO trip - Then on Sunday the R family explains what they were told about Krystal’s alleged trip to Colorado that led investigators to execute search warrants here in Idaho.
Twin Falls couple discusses tough call to FBI
Why would the FBI tell them anything about this alleged trip??

I was assuming the BFF told them about the CO trip but who knows...
 
  • #388
So if I understand correctly they could only do that prior to the crime if they were hired. And after the crime, they would not be able to go on television and say all this is that correct.

Right. Not if they were told something by a client.

They aren't discussing something learned in the context of an attorney-client relationship.
 
  • #389
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Ok just saw a comment from Kelsey Souto the reporter from KMVT on her official Facebook page giving a tiny bit more info about Rs belief regarding KK alleged mindset. Ms. Souto says they’ll have more on that this week.
 
  • #391
Right. Not if they were told something by a client.

They aren't discussing something learned in the context of an attorney-client relationship.
One thing I’m not sure anyone has mentioned regarding this couple - maybe the only way BFF would open up to them was if they promised to keep the information confidential. If that was the agreement, that would explain why they couldn’t say anything until after they heard about the disappearance, because at that point there is the likelihood that a felony was committed and they could be breaking the law by not reporting what they know. Right?
 
  • #392
BBM. To know your daughter was violently murdered by a man she trusted is horrific. To find out multiple people might have stopped it but chose not to try must be heartbreaking all over again.

Whistle-blowers blow the whistle to put a stop to something. What do you call someone who puts emergency flares/traffic cones in the street after an accident has been cleared?
You’re right in that it’s important that people speak up when something nefarious comes to their attention.

But let’s game this specific scenario out:

The attorneys contact their local police department, and inform them that they have an employee whose friend said she was approached to commit a murder.

This local police department sends an officer to talk to the friend.

After the conversation, this officer believes that this is a genuine plot (maybe).

This department then contacts the police department in the town that KK lives.

A police officer contacts KK.

At this point, KK can do one of two things:

Admit that she was solicited.

Play it off as a joke or something.

Considering that she ultimately became involved in some capacity, I’m confident that she would have denied it.

At this stage, one of two things can happen.

It ends here.

This department then contacts the police department in the Colorado town where PF lives.

This department then approaches PF.

Because I am confident in the fact that KK would have played this off already and PF would have done the same, it very well could have ended here too.

My point is this:

It is by no means a sure thing that this couple could have stopped this.

KK could have though, at plenty of points along the way.
 
  • #393
To ask a woman who is calling you “her boyfriend,” to kill your baby momma, shows disregard for that woman and the woman you want killed, JMO. Sounds like KK was in a love Addiction situation to me. PF was her drug and she couldn’t go cold turkey off of him. For most women that would be a HUGE red flag, and a reason to never speak to the man again.

Assuming KK didn’t want the same thing. Who knows if she considered KB to be an impediment to her relationship with PF. KK May have wanted KB gone as well.

Not only did PF feel comfortable with bringing this up to KK, but she actually involved herself in at least the cover up.

I’m not sure he disrespected her and manipulated her into helping. She may have done so willingly. She didn’t have to drive 800 miles and then send fake messages and dispose of the phone. She chose to.
 
  • #394
But PF's attorney has to be told that KK has been charged and what she was charged with if she is going to testify against PF. His attorney would be able to bring up whether or not a deal was offered, including lesser charges where more severe charges were/are warranted, in exchange for testimony. The jury needs to know that in order to properly weigh the testimony.

You are right so if KK is charged we will eventually find out.

I have seen a few trials already where the Defense definitely knew there was a deal made between the Prosecution and a witness.
 
  • #395
Ok just saw a comment from Kelsey Souto the reporter from KMVT on her official Facebook page giving a tiny bit more info about Rs belief regarding KK alleged mindset. Ms. Souto says they’ll have more on that this week.
Oh my! I just looked.
 
  • #396
It appears Colorado can keep charges from the public. I did not know this could happen and maybe there could be charges already on KK and maybe they are hidden for the moment if LE is making an agreement with her to testify against PK.

Shrouded justice: Thousands of Colorado court cases hidden from public view on judges’ orders – The Denver Post
Thank you for posting that! I have been wondering if that was a possibility. Maybe it is true that the public might not be aware of an arrest or possible charges. It must be the third reason, that there is a criminal investigation going on. And maybe to avoid publicity, although they certainly haven't achieved that in this case.
But wouldn't we have some indication of this? An order from the judge? Or might that be kept from the public as well? I guess we will find out.

I still think it's a possibility that KK has been charged and has been in protective custody all this time. I don't see how she wouldn't at least be charged with something, since we know she is involved. Jmo
 
  • #397
KB is dead due to TWO people's ACTIONS ! 3rd party inactions are moot at this point. IMO
well, i remember that one of the finer points of the wrongful death civil suit is that , at least as far as i understand it, all humans are suppose to exercise care towards other humans and when they breach that and it results in death then they become guilty under one part of wrongful death. but, i'm not a lawyer so i possibly am mis-understanding some things.
 
  • #398
I submit respectfully that we ARE talking about a third party communication of a threat; that is exactly the status of the information as it came to the Rs. As for the BFF being “visibly upset”, the presence of absence of emotion has no bearing on what an attorney legally or ethically should do.

You’ll be interested to know that according to the ABA’s model rules of professional conduct, an attorney has no duty to report even if the circumstance is his OWN client, making a direct threat against a third party.

http://www.elon.edu/docs/e-web/law/law_review/Issues/Elon_Law_Review_V4_No1_Segal-Sacopulos.pdf

The only way that changes is if the threat is imminent - say your client says I’m going to go get a gun and go to that guy’s house right now and kill him. You do have to communicate in that circumstance.

The Rs situation is a heck of a lot more convoluted than a direct threat made by a client, even.

I'll agree to disagree with you that this was a threat. I believe they were aware of the crime of solicitation not a threat. IMO

I know they weren't violating their ethics as attorneys, that's why I didn't say they were. I said they failed to act as decent human beings.

Again all MOO anyone is free to believe differently.
 
  • #399
But PF's attorney has to be told that KK has been charged and what she was charged with if she is going to testify against PF. His attorney would be able to bring up whether or not a deal was offered, including lesser charges where more severe charges were/are warranted, in exchange for testimony. The jury needs to know that in order to properly weigh the testimony.
Could this be part of the reason the hearing was delayed to February? So the defense could work this out?
 
  • #400
Could this be part of the reason the hearing was delayed to February? So the defense could work this out?
I think they were hit with a lot of information in regards to the case against PF.

It certainly would take a great deal of time to prepare.
 
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