CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #42 *ARREST*

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  • #601
Something I try to keep in mind:

The social media posts made by reporters should not be considered as absolute fact.

They are interpreting what they hear the best they can.

Many said the acoustics in the courtroom were terrible.

The arrest affidavit is more reliable imo.

We will learn more at trial in a couple yrs
 
  • #602
This happens every time when the worst of it is done by the man, people always want to say the woman caused it. And even when the man confesses (like in the Sherin Mathews case), then it’s got to be that he’s protecting her. Yes, the women are often culpable for their part, but somehow they get the worst of the vitriol and blame.
Exactly. Women are always getting the blame.
 
  • #603
Does anyone know why they're searching this particular
landfill? Is this a central landfill that other dumps contribute
to?
 
  • #604
@Tippy Lynn, a tweet from the preliminary hearing which was copied to your timeline caused a great deal of confusion last night. In no way is this your fault - the acoustics in the courtroom are bad, there were many tweets that were later corrected/clarified, and several that were poorly worded.

Not everyone was able to follow the entire trial by tweet or read the articles linked below to know that it was PF's phone being pinged and that Slater testified that KK was in Idaho on November 22, the day KB was murdered. Please, when you have time, will you edit your timeline to avoid future confusion? Thanks for all you do! :)
I'm pretty sure the cell phone data places a cell phone from Idaho in Woodland Park, CO on the day of the murder.
JMO
611429CB-05B8-4A95-B742-6404D0122A32.jpeg 96F62C7B-14C2-4E6E-AED8-1C6AD9C0849B.jpeg
You are intentionally ignoring the evidence presented at the hearing:
  • At 4:37 pm Nov. 22, PF called an Idaho number, also in vicinity of KB’s home, it hit off a tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. He receive a return call from this number a few minutes later. It hit off the same tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. Shortly after, he received a call from that same number. Slater says it pinged off a tower in Divide.
  • Referencing the Idaho number belonged to KK, state asks if PF contacting that number became important, knowing that was near the last ping of KB’s phone. Slater said yes, then they tried contacting her.
  • CBI agent testified that at 4:24 p.m. on Nov. 22 PF’s phone called his mother. At 4:37 p.m. it called KK. Cell towers show he was southwest of KB‘s home.
Where is this sourced from? Link?
You are misreading this. Slater is talking about PF’s phone, and his phone activity.

He is talking about the location of PF’s phone pings.

He is driving with Kelsey’s phone and his phone, from Kelsey’s house (after killing her).

When she calls him back from HER Idaho number, his phone pings off a tower in Divide.

The bolded position pertains to a completely different part of his testimony, when the link is made between KK’s phone, and Kelsey’s phone, as she is driving back from Colorado, to Idaho.
See page one. A member here, Tippy, actually took notes.
Tippys notes are fantastic overall and very helpful for anyone wanting a quick rundown of the case but I think a mod should edit that part to clarify that Slater was talking specifically about PFs phone, before this takes on a life of its own.
I edited what, how? I've linked to the source of information. Multiple times: Page one, post 5 from Tippy. If you have a source that refutes it, please notify a mod and post a link.
I've said repeatedly it is on page one of this thread, posts by Tippy Lee.
EXACTLY. I made the same mistake when that info first came out. It was worded strangely, and it does look, at first, like they were talking about KK's cell location. That is what I thought initially. But someone corrected me, and I went back a read it.

Upon rereading the testimony, I saw that they were referring to HIS cell being near the townhome, not hers.
It is incorrect and needs to be clarified. JMO
No, let's not let this get legs. It was talking about his phone travelling with KB's phone later in the afternoon when he was calling KKL and his mother. M o o.
Then I suggest you contact the mods and show proof that Tippy's notes at the top of the thread are inaccurate. I do believe the testimony was about an Idaho number and other reporter's notes do confirm the call FROM Idaho pinged off a tower in Divide, CO.

11:34 a.m.

Slater said they found Frazee called his mother around 4:24 p.m. on Nov. 22 and they determined that the phone pinged off of a tower in Woodland Park, near Berreth’s townhome. Slater then said Frazee called an Idaho number at 4:37 p.m. that pinged off the same tower. Slater said records show he received a call from the same number, that one pinged off of a tower in Divide, located between Woodland Park and the Frazee property in Florissant.

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

I believe your Tippy Lynn interpretation of the transcript of testimony is incorrect. Please see the same passage with clarity. PF's phone is what is pinging in Colorado, on 11/22, and not KK's phone (actual or burner).

  • At 4:37 pm Nov. 22, PF called an Idaho number, [while] also in vicinity of KB’s home, it hit off a tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. He receive a return call from this number a few minutes later[while in vicinity of KB's home]. It hit off the same tower, southwest of KB’s townhome. Shortly after [when traveling to SF ranch], he received a call from that same number. Slater says it pinged off a tower in Divide [located near SF ranch].
  • Referencing the Idaho number belonged to KK, state asks if PF contacting that number became important, knowing that was near the last ping of KB’s phone[that pinged Gooding, ID] . Slater said yes, then they tried contacting her.
Yes. Basic common sense. The defense would be screaming that this proved KK was there and could've been the culprit rather than him. They stayed silent as to that.

But the tweet by Sam Kramer was indeed confusing as written. We have to remember these reporters were writing fast.
Her post does not need to be 'removed.' She did a lot of hard work, took a lot of time and effort.

It is just ONE SENTENCE that needs to be corrected.
I did. We all did. Slater clearly testified that KK was not present on 11-22, was contacted by PF to come down and clean up a mess and arrived in CO on 11-24. Pommy Mommy provided links to all the news articles evidencing this in the post linked here:

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #42 *ARREST*
We don't need to. The timeline is great. You're interpreting a couple sentences incorrectly. The testimony shows that KK was not in CO on the day of the murders and arrived on the 24th. It's that simple.
Witness reveals how Patrick Frazee allegedly killed Kelsey Berreth, disposed of her body
Slater testified that Kenney was not present during Berreth's murder, but arrived in Colorado on November 24 to clean up the crime scene. She described the scene inside Berreth's home as "horrific."

Details of alleged gruesome bloody cleanup revealed in case against fiancé accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
Lee said Frazee called her on Nov. 22 and told her to get to Colorado to clean up, Slater said. Lee arrived on Nov. 24 with rubber gloves, a hospital gown, bleach, trash bags and booties, Slater testified.

Patrick Frazee going to trial in Kelsey Berreth murder case (UPDATE: Arrest affidavit inside article)
Kenney states she received a call from Frazee on Nov. 22. Frazee allegedly said, "You got to get here now. You got a mess to clean up." On Nov. 24 Kenney claims she was on her way to Colorado with a clean-up kit.

Affidavit details events leading up to Berreth’s death
On Nov. 22 around 4:30 p.m., while she was in Idaho, Kenney received a text from Frazee: “You need to get here now. You’ve got a mess to clean up.”

She told authorities that when she received that text, she “understood that as Berreth had been killed,” according to the affidavit.

While Kenney wasn’t present for the alleged murder, she said Frazee described it in detail.

Patrick Frazee allegedly had blindfolded Kelsey Berreth, bludgeoned her with baseball bat
She said she was in Idaho, and Frazee described the deed and enlisted her to come to Colorado to help him clean up the crime scene and create the appearance that Berreth had left town of her own will — partly by sending messages from the victim's phone.

Landfill search for Kelsey Berreth’s remains starts Tuesday
While the former nurse wasn’t present for the alleged murder, she said Frazee described it in detail.

ETA: This is not a complete compilation of the confusion! :eek:
 
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  • #605
Just jumping off your post - was it you that had mentioned after the search at PF's that their septic tank at the ranchette had been destroyed related to the search? I'm just curious as now that we've heard so much from February 19th, I'm trying to figure what importance that may have had. Thanks in advance.

No, it wasn't me. There was NO septic tank on the property. In the state of Colorado, every county has their own regulations concerning septic and sewage systems, because the conditions are so extremely different from county to county. Teller County allows residences with sufficient slope to have leech fields, which is an array of slotted plastic pipes at least twelve inches below the curface and 4 inches in diameter, spreading out from a central sewer discharge pipe like a fan. It does not utilize a tank at all. The reason in Teller County is that the soil is very rocky, and lies in a very thin layer over pure granite, basalt or quartz. Unlike common building sites at lowder elevations, there is little absorbtion. A septic tank would simply fill up, and have to be pumped in the exact same comp;osition as it was flushed. It simply would not work.
The building codes have changed since the early 1990's, when that site first became occupied. Now, when a field is exposed to the air and portions are removed, the entire field must be brought to current codes, which at a minimum would require re-design the field to include plastic distribution boxes and other modern amenties. If LE had removed any portion, the news reporters would have seen a massive truckload of new pipe and paraphernalia being brought in. This cannot be put off for later, or passed back to the homeowner's responsibility. It must be done the dsame day, or the house can't be occupied. The fact that they didn't bring in the parts of any updated system tells me that they simply scraped down to the top of the leech field pipe with the backhoe, took minute substance samples from each branch of pipe, and replaced the dug soil; all without actually removing any piece of pipe. The whole excavation was probably just a foot of soil, which explains why the aftermath looks so messy in the aerial photos. It's tricky backhoe work to replace a thin layer, evenly.
My conclusion is that they were expecting to find some DNA residue of the cleaning process, showering or laundry or in the least likely scenario werfe were looking for a specific flushable solid.
I hope this answers posters questions about a unpleasant but very simple LE search task.
IMO
 
  • #606
Does anyone know why they're searching this particular
landfill? Is this a central landfill that other dumps contribute
to?

Yes, it is, for several counties. WM dominates the refuse disposal business in that area. IMO
 
  • #607
Yes - perhaps the 5 names authorized to care for the baby dated December 12 indicates the potential players? As we know KB is not on the list. I am guessing neither is CB. My guesses include PF, SF, the sister, the sister's husband - so who is the 5th? KK???
source is the Affidavit - they found it in their search of SF property. Para 33.
ETA spelling
I think the significance in that case was it was among the first clues LE had that made them suspect PF, as he did not include KB on the list. He knew she was dead by that time.
I don't think they would conclude anyone's involvement based on the list, but it may have led them to question others. I wouldn't think KK would be on the list since she lived so far away. 800 miles is a long way to drive to take a child to the hospital. Imo
 
  • #608
Yes, it is, for several counties. WM dominates the refuse disposal business in that area. IMO
Thanks Dave, now I want your opinion on this...
why is MaF pleading the 5th?
 
  • #609
Patrick Frazee to face trial after preliminary hearing
snipped - I have not found a transcript of the audio interview - just the tweets? I wonder if one will be released? I am curious about what exactly PF told LE that first time.

Police talk with Frazee about case for the first time

On Dec. 2, 2018, the Woodland Park Police Department called Frazee to talk to him about the case. Prosecutors played an audio recording of this phone call in court Tuesday morning.

As heard on the recording, Frazee told police the last time he had talked with Berreth was Nov. 25. They had talked about how their relationship was no longer working, and she said she wanted them to go their separate ways, Frazee told police. She asked for space and her personal belongings, like her car, keys and gun.

"She was sane, you know, basically,” he told police. “When I talked to her, it was basically: Everybody has bumps in the road. I wanted to respect her wishes. She just had enough of the arrangement."

The couple also texted back and forth that day, Frazee told police. He received a message a few days later that her phone number had expired.

They were never formally married, he told police. He lived in Florissant so he could care for his cattle.

He said Berreth had been spending more time in Pueblo, but that he hadn’t drawn any conclusions from that. She’d also gone to Breckenridge with somebody from church. In August, Berreth had checked herself into a rehabilitation treatment center for two weeks due to her anxiety, fatigue and depression.

“We lived such separate lives for so long,” Frazee told police during the recorded call.

He never called police to report her missing for the 10 days between Thanksgiving and when he talked with police, Adams said after the recording ended.
 
  • #610
I think it could someone else involved.
MOO
Well, certainly several people knew beforehand that PF wanted to kill KB, so who the heck knows how many are involved at least in the cover up afterwards.

Jmo
 
  • #611
I see what you mean. I originally thought pf showed up soon after brother...
I believe the affidavit cited Sean F as making 2 trips to SF home on Thanksgiving— and saw PF on the later. MOO
 
  • #612
Thanks Dave, now I want your opinion on this...
why is MaF pleading the 5th?
I am not Dave, but it may be her not wanting to incriminate her son and is using the 5 th as a way of getting out of testifying. I was selected for jury trial and found out on jury selection day that the trial involved my former boss who I despised and did not want to be in the same courthouse with him and I told the judge I cannot be impartial and was let off. I could have been impartial, but desperately wanted out of the courtroom as quick as possible.
 
  • #613
I think the significance in that case was it was among the first clues LE had that made them suspect PF, as he did not include KB on the list. He knew she was dead by that time.
I don't think they would conclude anyone's involvement based on the list, but it may have led them to question others. I wouldn't think KK would be on the list since she lived so far away. 800 miles is a long way to drive to take a child to the hospital. Imo
PF would say that KB gave him the child, she said goodbye and she did not want to see him (PF) again.
 
  • #614
We don’t really know for sure that KB was killed on the 22nd. PF could have incapacitated her in some way and waited for KK to arrive. There’s just no proof she was killed on the 22nd. Just KK’s word. I just find it so hard to believe that the bloody scene of the crime would be left to be cleaned 2 days later.
 
  • #615
PF would say that KB gave him the child, she said goodbye and she did not want to see him again.
True - and interesting that he is the only one that signed it JMO
 
  • #616
The assumption by who?the reporter that later clarified that he interpreted it wrongly in his a original tweet. And later made a tweet to correct it and say May was likely referring to PF?
Yes I agree. Also, I believe the Court considers KK a witness— not a defendant.
 
  • #617
I would think the civil trial should come before the criminal trial. In the civil trial people are forced to testify and that testimony could be used for the criminal trial, in this case since there is so much evidence so far. IMO
 
  • #618
  • #619
  • #620
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search
Docket for: Teller County - Teller County Courthouse
Showing 1 - 3 of 3 records

Date Len Name Hearing Type Case # Location Division
3/4/19
8:30 AM 1H FRAZEE, PATRICK Motions Hearing D602018CR330 Teller County DIV 11 - TELLER DISTRICT COURT
4/4/19
8:30 AM 1H FRAZEE, PATRICK Disposition Hearing D602018JV26 Teller County DIV 11 - TELLER DISTRICT COURT

4/8/19
8:30 AM 1H FRAZEE, PATRICK Arraignment D602018CR330 Teller County DIV 11 - TELLER DISTRICT COURT
Upcoming dates - 4/4 is the regarding the custody of the baby - allotted one hour.
 
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