CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[MsBetsy]

Interesting that this article was dated December 17th.

FBI made first contact with KKL on 14th in Vegas.

She was his girlfriend years ago. She did work in a hospital. She at that time had a partner.

Yes, but I got the impression the girlfriend that he cheated on was a patient in the hospital. If it was six or seven years ago it could have been anybody. From what we know, PF seems to have been pretty promiscuous. Who knows how many partners he had. Imo

 

[Dave F.]

I’ve been away from WS for a couple of days and in trying to somewhat catch up, I have simply scanned and skipped around reading last and current threads. PF’s court date Monday is Legal Argument. What exactly does that entail?
Again, apologies if this is a repeat question.
TIA

This will be the first of many hearings over Motions, usually attended only by the lawyers and judge. The star topic of this one seems to be initial reolution of the original motions filed over destructive testing of minute evidence. We'll probably see the motions, that are ruled on, appear on the court website later in the week. IMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Makes me sick to think of this, but, how did he get her into that without, um, doing something to cause her body to fit inside and close the lid?

In the Jodi Arias case, a member that I cannot remember their name, did some examples and taped it with photos, videos... and shared it with us as to show how something could have been done.

Just now, I went into my garage and found and emptied a 92 quart (23 gallons approx) sterilite container. I squatted down in the container and I could have been in it with just four inhes of clearance, but I am 5'7" and 155 lbs. (Don'tjudge!). That is much bigger than she was. I think she would have fit into this is it was before rigor mortis took over.

I don't have somebody else right now to take a photograph of it, but 92Q is about 23 gallons. And they were very popular around Christmas time.

Attached is a screenshot the sterilite container, this one does not have me squatting in it but somebody else can have their significant other take a photograph of something like that. If they would like.

The width of my body fit very easily.

ETA

Oh, and I just did it again and I think I probably could scooch in and fit in completely with the lid it came with.

ETA to do this picture, I had to take out Christmas stuff. So very interesting, that the mother said she was getting ready for Christmas but had not bought a tree. Could the container have come from her house, or his, that had Christmas decorations in it that she/he had taken down and he just use that for the disposal. I guess not because it was said to be a thick black plastic container. But it just made me cringe when I just thought of that.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I don't think there's a point to continuing to worry about which kind of "tote" it was -- the word has multiple meanings and the media has not hesitated from perpetuating wrong information so we can't use them to be certain. We may not know if it was a hard-sided or a soft-sided container until more is revealed via LE or the judicial process.

However, I do want to point out, in response to earlier comments, that moving a heavy item does not require a clean-and-jerk lift. I am an average size female and I regularly move items far heavier than I can lift, using the basic laws of mechanics. Dragging, levering, 'walking' one side forward then the other, or end-over-end, etc.

My thoughts about giving Kelsey back the gun the day before Thanksgiving- he had the perfect plan all set up, her death was going to be a suicide. Then, she told her Mom in a phone call, probably in front of Patrick, that she had her gun back and went target practicing, once again, foiling his plans to be free of her. Makes me wonder if that is why he had so much rage when he brutally hit her with the baseball bat- he was no doubt angry that not only he had to do it because Krystal wouldn't, but now his perfect plan fell apart by one phone call to Mom.

I may be having a senior moment here, but I don't understand why KB reporting to mom about the gun would cause PF to abandon the plan to make it look like suicide. Can someone spell out the logic for me please? TIA!

 

[ajaylee]

That's what I'm thinking. There must be something other than KK's statement. It seems like a huge effort if there's only a 50% chance she would be there. Unless they think finding the other evidence is enough.
I've read about a few cases in which LE searched landfills looking for a suitcase with a body inside. In one case, after two months of searching they finally found it in the only area they had left to search. This will be even harder, I would think.

Two thoughts:

1) KK says PF told her he'd scoop up the remains and toss them in the landfill or the river. He may have intended to do one or the other but did something else entirely.

2) I find it slightly surprising that KK didn't ask PF about the remains later. Given how casual these two were about killing KB in a gruesomely violent way, cleaning up a horrific mess and disposing of her body, it seems to me that KK would have gotten back to Idaho, checked in with PF, and asked if 'it' was all taken care of.

 

[jewelsmac]

How investigators will search a landfill for Kelsey Berreth's remains - CNN
Frazee's alleged mistress, who is cooperating with law enforcement, shared information that helped lead investigators to the Midway Landfill in Fountain, Colorado.

ahhhh, well let’s hope Her information is truthful and they can find something of Kelsey.

 

[MsBetsy]

Horrific I know, but how much remains can they expect to find? One full trash bag? Two or more? Are they hoping it ripped open and there are random bone fragments to test dna? Speaking of dna, is it possible any of Kelsey’s dna was found in the burn trough or commingled with the melted plastic?

Did KK ever say what PF did with the remains after he scooped them up? Did he transfer them in a trash bag?
I know there is evidence that was disposed of in trash bags, but what about the remains?

 

[jewelsmac]

IKR? Who drives a car w/expired plates to a crime scene? Someone told me to not try to make sense of this crime about 20 threads ago, but I just can't get over the stupidity, not to mention the evil.

What do you do when your "boyfriend", who is a long-distance boyfriend at that, calls you from two states away to ask you to drop everything and drive down to clean up the mess he made when killing the mother of his infant child? Call your friend to borrow her car, lie to your ex-husband, and tell him "I'll be there as soon as I can?"

Could there be something we're missing? Or is it just that ridiculous?

Sadly I think it’s just that ridiculous.

 

[lindaromas]

Sorry if asked and answered but I’ve been out of the loop for a couple of weeks. Has Kelsey’s mom added KK to wrongful death action? Would KK be liable for anything civilly?

And just WOW!! I can’t believe how involved KK was in cleanup, staging and disposal of bloody items!! I think she is just as despicable as PF!! I’m sure the murder was all his idea but she went along every step of the way without alerting LE. Disgusting!! She got off waaaay to easy!!

I don’t believe she can until permanent custody is attained. Temporary custody is basically the care of the child.

 

[jewelsmac]

There is no way that LE would instigate a search of this magnitude without some intelligence that strongly indicates that's where KB's remains are to be found. MOO

I agree, they’re absolutely there because of information they were given. Awfully big undertaking to just be winging it.

 

[jewelsmac]

I don’t believe she would be alive. I believe she would have expired within the first few blows.

Pray God it was the first

 

[Dave F.]

Maybe they ruled out him dumping the remains in a river based on his movements according to his cell phone data. Imo

Maybe they ruled out dumping the remains in a river because they couldn't think of a river two feet or more in depth. Southern Colorado has two general geologic terrain classifications.........batholithic mountainous and high desert. IMO

 

[ajaylee]

Yes. Despite her obsession with PF, I don’t think she is as volatile as he is. He is persistent, but from KK’s description of the place and the method of KB’s death, he loses control rather than stick to a plan he has been stewing over for at least 3 months.

I think at some point (some very far away point) her inner sense of survival kicked in and said “ Don’t you be the one to commit murder”

After all, from KK’s testimony (and that’s all we have to go on) HE planned the murder, not she

I think that's an excellent description of the two and what probably was going through her mind after he lost control and made a mess.

 

[GordianKnot]

IKR? Who drives a car w/expired plates to a crime scene? Someone told me to not try to make sense of this crime about 20 threads ago, but I just can't get over the stupidity, not to mention the evil.

What do you do when your "boyfriend", who is a long-distance boyfriend at that, calls you from two states away to ask you to drop everything and drive down to clean up the mess he made when killing the mother of his infant child? Call your friend to borrow her car, lie to your ex-husband, and tell him "I'll be there as soon as I can?"

Could there be something we're missing? Or is it just that ridiculous?[/QUOTE]

BBM:
We're not missing anything.
It's PF who's missing something.
Brain cells....lots and lots of brain cells.

He's a complete moron.

JMO.

 

[Reachingfornettles]

Even a proper crematorium has to grind up bones that did not burn. If you read up on the process, many larger bones are not
left as ash until the grinding process is done.
I would guess there will be significant pieces of bones found.

I have my families ashes and when i changed box to vase i noticed alot of bones up to an inch long... mom had radiation and i found this FYI offtopic .. Man's Radioactive Remains Spread Radiation All Over Cremation Chamber

 

[MsBetsy]

Two thoughts:

1) KK says PF told her he'd scoop up the remains and toss them in the landfill or the river. He may have intended to do one or the other but did something else entirely.

2) I find it slightly surprising that KK didn't ask PF about the remains later. Given how casual these two were about killing KB in a gruesomely violent way, cleaning up a horrific mess and disposing of her body, it seems to me that KK would have gotten back to Idaho, checked in with PF, and asked if 'it' was all taken care of.

Yes, seems a little odd that with everything she knows, she doesn't know for sure where he put the body.

 

[jewelsmac]

Horrific I know, but how much remains can they expect to find? One full trash bag? Two or more? Are they hoping it ripped open and there are random bone fragments to test dna? Speaking of dna, is it possible any of Kelsey’s dna was found in the burn trough or commingled with the melted plastic?

I would imagine teeth, the most likely to survive the fire if anything i imagine, could probably be used if they were not too damaged. Tooth pulp can be tested

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Makes me sick to think of this, but, how did he get her into that without, um, doing something to cause her body to fit inside and close the lid?

See my trial I just did in a 23 gallon plastic container above.

 

[Dave F.]

I wonder if she felt she needed to protect herself from PF?

BTW- Is it legal to carry a loaded gun in your glove compartment anywhere? Even with a concealed carry permit?

It sure isnt in adjoining western states

I think in Idaho it's a felony which will catch a two year sentence on the first conviction, but it doesn't seem to stop anyone in Idaho from doing it. There is no regional monopoly on stupidity. IMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I read the original news report, which I think was done by one the the Colorado Springs news entities. The Gazette Telegraph newspaper sticks in my mind. What's missing here is that the ex-girlfriend was his high school flame. She was in the hospital. So it was a cheating worthy of Kanickie in "Grease" type scandal. The article implied, but did not actually say, that the current husband had hooked up with her on the rebound, and they had been a couple ever since. I tossed it as memories of bad times at Woodland High,until Slater's testimony revealed enough info to realize the girl he cheated with was probably KK. If I have that scandalous romance right, they worked together in the summer folowing high school graduation. Maybe they worked at one of the many summer camps in the Colorado mountains? IMO

I think we are on the same page. Innocence here on so many levels may be so very affected. So sad.

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe they ruled out dumping the remains in a river because they couldn't think of a river two feet or more in depth. Southern Colorado has two general geologic terrain classifications.........batholithic mountainous and high desert. IMO

So about how far from his home would the nearest river, or rivers, be?