CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[gitana1]

My impression is that their custody arrangement was informal and predicated upon Kelsey's work schedule and whatever worked for PF and Kelsey. From what was written about the unfiled custody papers, it sounded like he was going for sole custody. I was thinking not of her leaving the state (in that scenario) but still living there and him thinking he could take baby K from her, be the sole decision maker and have baby K live at the ranchette full time. I don't know what it's like in Colorado but where I live (Michigan) no court would award sole custody to a father with a fit mother living right there. Shared custody, yes, but he already had that and more, it sounds like. I'll bet he was tired of having to screw around baby exchange meetups, too. So inconvenient when baby K was perfectly fine with Ma who, I'll bet, was on his about custody. Probably that sister, too. I agree with you that the baby would be nothing more than his property. What does he care about baby K and her relationship with her mommy because she's a Frazee and that's it. In his mind, he's the boss of everything.

I think you'd asked about why he didn't tell KK about Kelsey sooner. My answer would be because he didn't have to.

CO has no preference regarding gender. If she was breastfeeding or had more availability, which is often the case with moms of toddler and infants, then she would have more of a chance at sole custody if they couldn't share due todostance or whatever. Otherwise, it's a joint custody state.

 

[ajaylee]

KB had the baby in October 2017.....at keast three months before the alleged incident. IMO

He allegedly took the gun in early 2017 while they were arguing about money. Depending on the timing, she might have been pregnant at the time.

I don't think she ever made that threat, and I'm not convinced he ever had the gun while she was alive.

But I have been wrong before....

 

[acutename]

Very thoughtful post, thanks.

I think PF didn't mind having KK back in his life as a casual risk-free hookup at rodeos or when she could come down to Colorado. I've posted elsewhere: I think KK was dreaming if she thought there was a future with PF. PF wasn't leaving that ranchette for anyone, ever, and I don't think KK was going to uproot herself and leave everything she's ever known behind - including possibly her kids, because I imagine her ex-husband would have tried to stop her from taking them away from everything they've ever known.

She was a fun time and a potentially useful tool. The more I look back over things, the more I think I see signs that he wanted her to take all the risks of getting rid of KB.

I wholeheartedly agree with your take on KB. I also wonder about her past relationships. She seems to have fallen very hard, very fast for PF. As I recall, her parents weren't entirely smitten with him, although I think they just said he was an 'odd duck'. I think she was emotionally abused and ashamed of being an unwed mother, somewhat afraid of PF but still desperately in love with him and wanting to make it work. He didn't hesitate to take advantage of that..

I think he originally thought he might be able to make something work with KB if KB came to the ranchette with her good-paying job.

l

I have wondered if at her age (28-9), she felt ready to be a mother and she was hopeful that everything would work out

 

[PommyMommy]

I had heard that but so then you think the Utah reference as home in the affidavit is a typo then?

Yes.

 

[ilovechili]

KKL did NOT live in Utah at any time. The mention in Item 35 makes no sense, except that she clearly returned to Idaho through Utah. KIKL has always lived in Twin Falls county, at various location south of the city of Twin Falls. Her separation and divorce seems to have been a slow motion process, possibly executed in reverse, but the recent move that is mentioned in the affidavit was from the residence of her ex to the address listed in the complaint against her. IMO

I will take your word for it, as I have no idea and it was why I asked, so very probably a typo then as to that part.

However, the reference I was making as far as moving related to the the fact she got the white suit etc., she allegedly said had such due to having recently moved and repainting. That would have been in November during clean-up so it is not recent to any complaint address unless we are talking about a move that long ago to the complaint address. A more likely possibility is it was another lie and she had such things from the hospital, or a misreport.

The affidavit, however, did state Utah so I questioned it.

 

[ajaylee]

l

I have wondered if at her age (28-9), she felt ready to be a mother and she was hopeful that everything would work out

This.

I've also wondered if KB was coming off a failed relationship, feeling the biological clock ticking, and PF was something of a rebound. IIRC, her parents weren't smitten - they thought he was a bit of an 'odd duck'.

Personally, if I see a 32-year-old single man who still lives with his mother and has never been married or had children, I don't just see an eligible bachelor; I see warning flags. Sometimes if something seems too good to be true, that's because it is.

IMHO

 

[OldLadyBlues]

True, BUT, KK went in there and altered the evidence. What was "blood spatter" is now just a freakin mess of smeared blood residue everywhere. She did this investigation irreparable harm.

Not necessarily, Susi. Blood was left whether KK cleaned or not. Spatter travels, as we have found out with it being on door knobs, ceilings and floorboard tongue and groove. MOO

 

[susiQ]

Not necessarily, Susi. Blood was left whether KK cleaned or not. Spatter travels, as we have found out with it being on door knobs, ceilings and floorboard tongue and groove. MOO

I totally agree, but what I replied to was how a forensic expert can deduce how the crime played out by the blood spatter, trajectory and such. Wouldn't an attempt at cleaning destroy that part of the evidence? I understand the blood can still be detected.

 

[ilovechili]

I'm not sure KB was even aware of KK's attempts #2 and #3. I don't think I've read that they had any interactions, other than KK apparently noticing that she and KB drove past each other as KK was driving out to the ranch after chickening out on that attempt.

There were mentions of PF having an ancient Toyota pickup which was used to bring the body from the hay pile back to the ranch. Maybe at some point on the 24th PF came to the townhome in the 2008 Toyota while KK was cleaning, or just in time for Sonic, and left it there and rode with her back to the ranch where they switched to the old Toyota to then go get the body? At some point then, either before the burn, after the burn, or the next morning before she hit the road, they had to go retrieve his truck at the townhome. JMO MOO

Yah, either way in this idea is he is back at the townhome then at some point besides the times we know of. If he rode with her in say the Toyota pickup from the townhome, then both drive to Nash ranch to get the tote or they drop the car she is driving at say his home, filled with all the bags of contents? Or somewhere. Seems a bit risky but seems there was a lot of that going on. Who knows? Both would then have to drive most likely because she brought hers up to load the bags and we know if true they took that one because she said they burned those things as well. Hmm.

 

[Artis]

This is the proof I want to see that in no way, no how could she have done this or been there, as to the actual murder, that it was done on the day said, etc. I would assume they would never make a case without having that locked down rock solid.

So far I have not seen enough to conclude that but that in no way means I know that proof does not exist either. Just simply that we have not seen it nor heard it.

She sure seems to be not on camera a lot...

If I have it correctly, it was her father, her ex and her buddy, MG, saying she was in Idaho on Thanksgiving. I would still like to see her phone records (that would be the phone that she destroyed) and pings that prove that, only because her circle seems to be a bunch of shady characters. Three people saying it is pretty good evidence but records and pings would remove any doubt. I do believe she was in Idaho, though. She probably has other family who will vouch for her being home, as well.

 

[Artis]

that’s a lot of pages . I was going to suggest a certain currency raising website, that dare not to speak its name..but I know that will invoke the mods and I will get deleted.

As soon as it's available, some media outlet will pay for and publish it.

 

[ilovechili]

If I have it correctly, it was her father, her ex and her buddy, MG, saying she was in Idaho on Thanksgiving. I would still like to see her phone records (that would be the phone that she destroyed) and pings that prove that, only because her circle seems to be a bunch of shady characters. Three people saying it is pretty good evidence but records and pings would remove any doubt. I do believe she was in Idaho, though. She probably has other family who will vouch for her being home, as well.

I only heard it about her father saying she was there for Thanksgiving and never heard where he lived.

Per your cast of certain shady characters, I agree and I think the lies and covering and failure to come forward and stop this certainly play into the wondering, to be expected I would think. It certainly affects my thoughts if anyone at times wonder why I question and then I noted that in the affidavit.

And yes, I too would like to see the original phone as well as all of the burner phones, not to mention text conversations and not just logs, etc. Family might be great, I have no idea, but I personally would not take personal alibis as gospel when we have switching vehicles, riding with others, etc. We shall see I guess. Or we won't.

 

[Dave F.]

I had heard that but so then you think the Utah reference as home in the affidavit is a typo then?

Yes...............I suspect Commander Chris Adams was momentarily as confused by the variety and amount of detail as the rest of us. IMO

 

[ilovechili]

Oh, come on! Let's go there Why did they have to pick up his truck at KB's on the 24th? Please? I want to know!
My first question would be, "which truck?"

He has a red one (taken by LE), he had a blue/green one (when he was apprehended) and if I'm not mistaken he took a white one with a trailer to the dump with his buddies.

lol no kidding, they both seemed to have plenty of "rides" (play on words intended like at least 3 different ways). each can interpret that as they like

and plenty of vehicles to borrow from others, etc...

 

[ab01]

DBM off topic

 

[PrairieWind]

Here's the 4 pack https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilit...hguid=8f1b1ab7-9fb-169302794247dc&athena=true

That is exactly what I pictured as a plastic tote with silver handles. I’ve got dozens of them of various sizes around my house.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I totally agree, but what I replied to was how a forensic expert can deduce how the crime played out by the blood spatter, trajectory and such. Wouldn't an attempt at cleaning destroy that part of the evidence? I understand the blood can still be detected.

It sure would! But from what I understand if it made it to the ceiling, CSIs may be able to pick up a lot of info from there. Maybe not the complete picture, but a good representation of what went on. I've see techs pull something from (what I considered) nothing and honestly, I've been amazed. Just goes to show you it was a good thing I wasn't a tech, thank God! ;-) IMHO

 

[Artis]

I actually thought about that story about the dogs, too. The only thing I can figure is that maybe KB had been involved in helping a stray dog get back to its owner, had never met the owner herself, and PF told KK about this as a potential way for her to make contact with KB.

I figured it was KK using the ruse that she was looking for her lost her dogs and was asking Kelsey to BOLO and then gave her the burner phone number. Who knows, though? Mercury News said KK's ruse was introducing herself as a new neighbor.

I have a really hard time believing the "poisoning" or drugging of the coffee fail story because it's so absurd. I swear, after knowing about this case, any stranger, approaching my property and offering me a drink is gonna get it dumped right over their head.

 

[ab01]

That is exactly what I pictured as a plastic tote with silver handles. I’ve got dozens of them of various sizes around my house.

Yep that there is a "Tote" IMO

 

[MassGuy]

I only heard it about her father saying she was there for Thanksgiving and never heard where he lived.

Per your cast of certain shady characters, I agree and I think the lies and covering and failure to come forward and stop this certainly play into the wondering, to be expected I would think. It certainly affects my thoughts if anyone at times wonder why I question and then I noted that in the affidavit.

And yes, I too would like to see the original phone as well as all of the burner phones, not to mention text conversations and not just logs, etc. Family might be great, I have no idea, but I personally would not take personal alibis as gospel when we have switching vehicles, riding with others, etc. We shall see I guess. Or we won't.

Yeah, I don’t trust the people KK surrounds herself with, much more than KK herself.

They kept silent in regards to the solicitation after all.

It was cell phone records and pings, that told the FBI that KK wasn’t being truthful in the first place.

Those same records would prove if she was being truthful when she finally decided to cooperate.

Obviously, law enforcement and the prosecution believes that to be the case now.

You can bet that this will all be brought up at trial, in great detail.