CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[PommyMommy]

ajaylee said: ↑
Apologies for more graphic imagery. I believe there were high ceilings - and blood on the ceiling. With a high ceiling, a weapon like a bat can also be wielded overhand like an axe. Seems like that kind of blow would be more likely to spatter blood upwards.

Still, I envision him in a rage. I tried randomly swinging a soft foam roller around my living room, which is bigger than KB's, and it's hard to do without hitting the wall or a piece of furniture, even if only a glancing blow.


the details of this seem weird to me. if he is in a blind rage, how does he only knock one tooth out and then how does he even know where it goes? I guess maybe the adrenaline makes him hyper aware and he does remember details, but I find it surprising. usually a "rage" results in memory loss, IMO.

The affidavit states that several of her teeth became dislodged and "Frazee was concerned he left a tooth behind..." Page 9, #66

 

[NWLady]

KKL may have told LE where she was. To verify electronically after so long time had passed, the FBI experts would have to have KKL's phone in hand. She destroyed it Dec. 4th. Inspector Slater testified that he attempted to verify the location of the phone for the 22nd through 24th via search warrant on the location match feature of her Google account assigned to that phone, but discovered she had disabled that app just prior to that time. To execute that search warrant, Slater needed KKL's G-mail address. He said Her ex had it saved in the Contacts feature of his phone, and provided it. IMO

Thanks for this info, it helps explain the situation better!

What a coincidence though that she had destroyed the phone and therefore no information regarding the location of her phone could be gotten for the period of November 22nd through the 24th. Am I understanding that correctly? And if so, doesn't that mean then that there really is no phone information OR pings that verify/prove where KK and/or her phone was during the 22nd through the 24th? (other than alibis of people who claim she was here or she was there, yada yada) I guess the reason I am confused by this is because if I am understanding it correctly, how can some be so sure that she was nowhere near KB's or PF's on Thanksgiving then??

 

[ilovechili]

Oh dear....I'm tired as I envisioned you swinging a pool noodle around the living room, wondering if the neighbors were watching.
But I DO agree with what you're saying! My living room is probably twice the size and I brought it up last night that something would either be hit or there would be dents in the wall from a 6'2" swinging bat on a tiny person trying to get away. IMHO

It was an amusing picture I felt when I read that post too. I enjoy when people actually test a theory and report on it. I was in a 700 sq. ft. area today and tried to picture a bat and the events without damage and could not. Yet I was lazy and had no foam bat nor pool noodle Yet I could not picture the way the events come across as occurring the way I at least picture from the not so dynamic duo's account of what occurred... (KK/PF or one or the other) jmo

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks for this info, it helps explain the situation better!

What a coincidence though that she had destroyed the phone and therefore no information regarding the location of her phone could be gotten for the period of November 22nd through the 24th. Am I understanding that correctly? And if so, doesn't that mean then that there really is no phone information OR pings that verify/prove where KK and/or her phone was during the 22nd through the 24th? (other than alibis of people who claim she was here or she was there, yada yada) I guess the reason I am confused by this is because if I am understanding it correctly, how can some be so sure that she was nowhere near KB's or PF's on Thanksgiving then??

No. The super specific location data that Google keeps is gone, because she deleted her location information.

A search warrant would have been executed on her phone carrier, and her records would still show her phone pings.

They would know which towers her phone was communicating with, when she sent and received messages and phone calls from PF.

Every carrier I can find, keeps these records for a minimum of one year.

 

[Dave F.]

I saw that in the affidavit and it said there was no location data on KK’s phone for the suspected murder date of KB. Which is what actually started to make me question where she was and why she turned her location data off. She probably was in Idaho eating turkey but I’m just looking for something solid to go on beside eyewitnesses stating she was there.

I could be totally wrong about this, but Affidavit A doesn't actually say that either KKL or her father were in Idaho on the 22nd. It just says her father vouched that they were both eating turkey dinner with family. It's obvious that LE is satisfied she could not possibly have been in Woodland Park, so I'm good with that. IMO

 

[skyedaze]

Looking at that, again, there's a great example of what KK WILL lie about because it cannot be disproved. That's the BS about leaving on both phones in the hopes LE would "find" her. Same for saying she deliberately left blood for LE to find. These are attempts to make herself look as though she was forced to participate and too scared not to comply with his orders. This is belied by a mountain of facts and one in particular - she threw Kelsey's tooth away.

Right. KK is SO skerred..and SO helpful to LE without their even knowing it all at the same time.
<reaching for barf bag>

 

[PommyMommy]

The description of positive Blue Star Forensic Stain testing positive on the ceiling is described in the section of Attachment A to the Arrest Affidavit on Page 4 titled "Search of Berreth's apartment and discovery of blood in the bathroom". The exact statement reads:
"In summary, blood was located on the base of the toilet, bathtub, towel rack door handle, ceiling, and other areas of the bathroom."
On Zillow.com, the bathroom is located under the second floor loft, and appears to have the standard 96 inch (8 ft) ceiling height.
There is no mention in Attachment A of anything being found on the high ceiling over the living room, kitchen, stairway and loft area. IMO
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

However, a ceiling is also mentioned on page 9, #69:

"Blood was also on the floor in the kitchen, on the walls, on the ceiling, on the television, pictures, couch and books."

Is that the kitchen or living room ceiling?

MOO

 

[ajaylee]

The description of positive Blue Star Forensic Stain testing positive on the ceiling is described in the section of Attachment A to the Arrest Affidavit on Page 4 titled "Search of Berreth's apartment and discovery of blood in the bathroom". The exact statement reads:
"In summary, blood was located on the base of the toilet, bathtub, towel rack door handle, ceiling, and other areas of the bathroom."
On Zillow.com, the bathroom is located under the second floor loft, and appears to have the standard 96 inch (8 ft) ceiling height.
There is no mention in Attachment A of anything being found on the high ceiling over the living room, kitchen, stairway and loft area. IMO
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

I mentioned the high ceiling because PF is tall and swinging a bat. If it was an ordinary ceiling, I think he'd hit the ceiling if he tried to swing it overhand like an axe. At least in the living room, with the high ceilings he could have wielded the bat that way and there would have been less risk of hitting a wall or a piece of furniture.

 

[MassGuy]

However, a ceiling is also mentioned on page 9, #69:

"Blood was also on the floor in the kitchen, on the walls, on the ceiling, on the television, pictures, couch and books."

Is that the kitchen or living room ceiling?

MOO

I apparently overlooked those blood locations.

It just reemphasizes how utterly stupid this monster is.

He wants to sell the story that KK went off and killed herself.

He then proceeds to use the dumbest method imaginable to kill her.

A fricken baseball bat.

Blood absolutely everywhere.

 

[skyedaze]

ajaylee said: ↑
Apologies for more graphic imagery. I believe there were high ceilings - and blood on the ceiling. With a high ceiling, a weapon like a bat can also be wielded overhand like an axe. Seems like that kind of blow would be more likely to spatter blood upwards.

If you swing a bat correctly and follow through, you can easily end up with cast off up above. Especially if you step into it and start off higher (as a taller person) than the target. If you follow through you would have a wide circular swing ending upwards...same thing in tennis..especially with two-handed backhand.
just sayin'
poor thing

 

[ajaylee]

It was an amusing picture I felt when I read that post too. I enjoy when people actually test a theory and report on it. I was in a 700 sq. ft. area today and tried to picture a bat and the events without damage and could not. Yet I was lazy and had no foam bat nor pool noodle Yet I could not picture the way the events come across as occurring the way I at least picture from the not so dynamic duo's account of what occurred... (KK/PF or one or the other) jmo

I am short, I don't have particularly long arms, and my ceilings are 8 feet. When I was waving the noodle around, if I swung it overhand like an axe, I hit the ceiling - my short height + my extended arms + the noodle were long enough.

I do hope the neighbors didn't see me. The noodle/roller is neon green and I was swinging it every which way all over the living room.

 

[Dave F.]

No. The super specific location data that Google keeps is gone, because she deleted her location information.

A search warrant would have been executed on her phone carrier, and her records would still show her phone pings.

Cell phone companies archive ping data fairly quickly. After archiving, the location of the phone on a particular call can still be identified, but not the ping. The search warrant for KB's and PF's phone locations was executed very early, before any archiving, under the "Life threatening peril emergency" supreme court ruling. They were able to track her ping because they got enough data from PF's calls to her number for Verizon to search. We have been shown the "sidewalk version". In the actual trial, cell phone testimony could take a week or more,from the experts and employ hundreds of charts and maps. IMO

 

[Artis]

I don't believe PF loves or cares for ANY woman. I do believe that he cares about his money. The wrongful death lawsuit states "custody". I think PF knew he was going to have to pay child support for 18 years and fought that idea everyway he could. When he realized he was not going to manipulate KB. He eliminated her. He did not love his daughter, he didn't want the financial burden that was about to happen

If he'd ever had to pay child support, you know there's no way he wouldn't also feel entitled to full control and ownership of baby K.

 

[MassGuy]

I am short, I don't have particularly long arms, and my ceilings are 8 feet. When I was waving the noodle around, if I swung it overhand like an axe, I hit the ceiling - my short height + my extended arms + the noodle were long enough.

I do hope the neighbors didn't see me. The noodle/roller is neon green and I was swinging it every which way all over the living room.

Ha!

With respect to PF using a baseball bat, it’s entirely possible (if not likely), that he “choked up” on it.

This would substantially reduce the amount of room required to swing it.

 

[Dave F.]

I mentioned the high ceiling because PF is tall and swinging a bat. If it was an ordinary ceiling, I think he'd hit the ceiling if he tried to swing it overhand like an axe. At least in the living room, with the high ceilings he could have wielded the bat that way and there would have been less risk of hitting a wall or a piece of furniture.

I have no argument with that. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Cell phone companies archive ping data fairly quickly. After archiving, the location of the phone on a particular call can still be identified, but not the ping. The search warrant for KB's and PF's phone locations was executed very early, before any archiving, under the "Life threatening peril emergency" supreme court ruling. They were able to track her ping because they got enough data from PF's calls to her number for Verizon to search. We have been shown the "sidewalk version". In the actual trial, cell phone testimony could take a week or more,from the experts and employ hundreds of charts and maps. IMO

Thanks. Yeah I’ve seen it done before, it takes forever to present that information to a jury.

It’s boring as hell too.

 

[ilovechili]

I am short, I don't have particularly long arms, and my ceilings are 8 feet. When I was waving the noodle around, if I swung it overhand like an axe, I hit the ceiling - my short height + my extended arms + the noodle were long enough.

I do hope the neighbors didn't see me. The noodle/roller is neon green and I was swinging it every which way all over the living room.

Lol, your neighbors must enjoy you or seeing what you are up to Thanks for the chuckle and the test.

Yeah, I don't know with regard to the bat thing. Other than evidence, and what her parents have to live with (which is bad enough in any which way, shape or form it happened), I do not know what difference it makes, since to date, it only comes allegedly from PF's account to KK not from any official source that it is what indeed happened. It seems meant to throw things off or something. As said earlier by the other poster, who wants to stage suicide but then does something like that. Just does not make sense.

Thank you again for performing that test

 

[GordianKnot]

I apparently overlooked those blood locations.

It just reemphasizes how utterly stupid this monster is.

He wants to sell the story that KK went off and killed herself.

He then proceeds to use the dumbest method imaginable to kill her.

A fricken baseball bat.

Blood absolutely everywhere.

I gotta' admit that one of the things that really baffles and dumbfounds me is the amount of times I read it being questioned whether PF "could really be that stupid."

This is PF we're talking about here.

PF is a complete moron.
He has O Executive Functioning Skills.
Nothing about his stupid execution of his stupid plan and subsequent stupid attempts to conceal his crime with his stupid side piece should surprise anyone.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

I gotta' admit that one of the things that really baffles and dumbfounds me is the amount of times I read it being questioned whether PF "could really be that stupid."

This is PF we're talking about here.

PF is a complete moron.
He has O Executive Functioning Skills.
Nothing about his stupid execution of his stupid plan and subsequent stupid attempts to conceal his crime with his stupid side piece should surprise anyone.

JMO.

Yup.

Fortunately, stupidity isn’t a defense.

“Do you really think my client would be dumb enough to bludgeon Kelsey to death and burn her body on his own property?!”

Unequivocal yes.

I’m only surprised he didn’t film it and put it on YouTube.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I am short, I don't have particularly long arms, and my ceilings are 8 feet. When I was waving the noodle around, if I swung it overhand like an axe, I hit the ceiling - my short height + my extended arms + the noodle were long enough.

I do hope the neighbors didn't see me. The noodle/roller is neon green and I was swinging it every which way all over the living room.

Oh, thank you, Ajay! Now you have me laughing outloud because MY living room window is less than 10' from my sidewalk. But then, the neighbors are used to me.