CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[MsBetsy]

Trials are so fascinating and some of the strategies a Defense can play is they will sometimes ask a witness a question that they know is not allowed and even though the Prosecution team will object to the question and it will be sustained by the judge, the Defense has let the cat out of the bag and got their point across to the jury.

Yeah, I like watching them too. I can't imagine the jury not knowing after hearing the evidence that she must have had a plea deal.
Aren't those records available to the public, too?

 

[InvSmith]

I guess I'm not getting the "common sense" part because I absolutely believe that PF could have done this on his own and didn't need KK there swinging the bat for him. The candle sniffing may have just presented an opportunity for him.

Scenario:

PF and KB are inside her condo. She's just bought a couple of new candles. "Here," she says, holing it out to him, "this is meant to be Apple Cinnamon but I swear it smells like vanilla."

He takes a sniff. "Smells like apple to me," he shrugs.

She picks up another one marked "vanilla." "No, see? Smell this one and then smell that one? They're exactly the same!"

"I don't see it," he laughs. "They smell the same to me."

"I paid $20 for this Yankee," she complains. "I already had a vanilla one..."

"They're all the same," PF tells her.

"No they're not! They all have a distinct aroma. Why do you think we women collect so many?"

And then, upon looking around her living room, he gets an idea. "If your nose is so good then do you think you can tell what all these candles are without looking at them? I'll bet you $5 you can't."

"Ha, try me."

The baseball bat she uses for defense is in the corner of the room. He'd meant to so something to her the night before, he'd chickened out. Now he's feeling a burst of adrenaline. It all clicks into place. PF goes around, collects half a dozen candles, and lines them up in front of her. "And you can't cheat, either," he says as he wraps the sweater around her eyes.

IMO PF is a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but I think he was perfectly capable of killing KB all by himself.

I am so glad we don't understand the violence or intent it takes to bludgeon someone with a bat. There were no peek-a-boo games played.

 

[Hatfield]

Yeah, I like watching them too. I can't imagine the jury not knowing after hearing the evidence that she must have had a plea deal.
Aren't those records available to the public, too?

Yes I assume it is part of the public court record by now that KK pleaded guilty so anyone in Colorado that has paid attention to the news would likely know about KK by now.

Its just a matter of whether the judge in PF's trial will allow direct questioning about KK's own legal trouble when she testifies about her involvement with PF. Im just not sure if the judge will allow those types of questions.

It most likley is going to be hotly debated by both the Prosecution and Defense in lots of motions before the trial.

 

[Kapua]

Yes I assume it is part of the public court record by now that KK pleaded guilty so anyone in Colorado that has paid attention to the news would likely know about KK by now.

Its just a matter of whether the judge in PF's trial will allow direct questioning about KK's own legal trouble when she testifies about her involvement with PF. Im just not sure if the judge will allow those types of questions.

It most likley is going to be hotly debated by both the Prosecution and Defense in lots of motions before the trial.

Jurors are typically instructed to consider only what is presented in court. The most recent time that I was on a jury ~2 1/2 years ago, we were specifically instructed not to research the case on our own.

 

[InvSmith]

I makes it all the more horrific to me to know that he told Kelsey's mother that he loved her daughter after he had so cruelly murdered her and burned her body.

If memory serves me well, LE brought in the FBI's behavioral analysis team early in the missing person's portion. One of the early words PF used was "expired" so he was stating many off the wall comments. I am sure CB and LE didn't believe a word though they wanted to...

 

[kay74]

It' probably been posted so sorry ahead of time, but when does PF's trial start?

 

[PommyMommy]

It' probably been posted so sorry ahead of time, but when does PF's trial start?

Trial hasn't been scheduled yet. Here's what's on the calendar so far:

March 4, 2019
PF - Motions Hearing - 8:30 am

March 11, 2019
PF Wrongful Death - Scheduling and Planning Conf - 1:30 pm

April 4, 2019
Disposition Hearing (Custody case) - 8:30am

April 8, 2019
PF - Arraignment - 8:30 am

June 24, 2019
KK- Review Hearing - 11 am - Teller County

 

[PommyMommy]

Yeah, I like watching them too. I can't imagine the jury not knowing after hearing the evidence that she must have had a plea deal.
Aren't those records available to the public, too?

These are the court records available so far:

Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - People v. Krystal Jean Kenney

 

[NWLady]

I'm just imagining if I was a juror for PF's case and knew nothing about this case or followed the case in any way, it would probably IMO be quite obvious that there was/is something in it for her because otherwise, when it comes out that she has known PF for years, possibly it may come out that he was her first love for example, etc, etc., then one would have to think, hmmm...it sounds as if they were such close friends right up until the time this murder happened, I wonder why she has turned on him now by testifying against him? Plus, the fact that she seems to know an awful lot of what took place......which would mean he must have felt he could trust her to be telling her all this ........and she has admitted to cleaning up the crime scene....hmmmm, does she have a trial set for her involvement or has she even been charged with anything.......

As a juror, I'm supposed to believe that she knows all this information but yet played a factor in mainly cleaning up the crime scene....

JMO, but I myself I think would really wonder what really took place here........

 

[kay74]

Trial hasn't been scheduled yet. Here's what's on the calendar so far:

March 4, 2019
PF - Motions Hearing - 8:30 am

March 11, 2019
PF Wrongful Death - Scheduling and Planning Conf - 1:30 pm

April 4, 2019
Disposition Hearing (Custody case) - 8:30am

April 8, 2019
PF - Arraignment - 8:30 am

June 24, 2019
KK- Review Hearing - 11 am - Teller County

Thank You! Wow it's a long way off.

 

[Kapua]

I'm just imagining if I was a juror for PF's case and knew nothing about this case or followed the case in any way, it would probably IMO be quite obvious that there was/is something in it for her because otherwise, when it comes out that she has known PF for years, possibly it may come out that he was her first love for example, etc, etc., then one would have to think, hmmm...it sounds as if they were such close friends right up until the time this murder happened, I wonder why she has turned on him now by testifying against him? Plus, the fact that she seems to know an awful lot of what took place......which would mean he must have felt he could trust her to be telling her all this ........and she has admitted to cleaning up the crime scene....hmmmm, does she have a trial set for her involvement or has she even been charged with anything.......

As a juror, I'm supposed to believe that she knows all this information but yet played a factor in mainly cleaning up the crime scene....

JMO, but I myself I think would really wonder what really took place here........

Ah, now I see the point. In the other trial for which I was a juror, a civil case, we were told that one of the witnesses was also going to be tried separately. So, based on my very limited knowledge, I think it is possible that the jury would be given some limited information like that. I seriously doubt if the judge will allow details or specifics. But s/he may allow "this witness has been charged and will be sentenced after this trial", something like that. MOO and IANAL

 

[pepper 34]

One thing I have seen a few times during a trial is that a paid witness for the prosecution was directly asked by the Defense team if they are being paid by the prosecution for their testimony. I cant remember if objections overruled it or not so not sure if that question was ultimately allowed or not.

As you stated is how I've seen it done, too, but I also am not a lawyer. While reading partial trial transcripts, I've also seen the prosecution be the first to ask the paid or plea deal witness those same sorts of questions. (As in; we're being all above board... we have nothing to hide here... we want you all to know so we'll tell you first... and beat the defense to the punch...) I believe it's the witness that informs the jury, of any payment for testimony or any "legal deals or agreements made" by answering the lawyer(s) questions on the stand.

 

[acutename]

Interesting. So I would expect most folks would remember a specific date of Thanksgiving, and who they were with. So you are saying that you think that KKL family is lying?

FWIW, if she was at her family's Thanksgiving, there are likely dated traceable pictures of her with her kids, etc. because people tend to take photos at events and send them around.

 

[acutename]

KK is not as tall as PF. I am a petite woman (5'2") and find that the motion sensors at the doorways of certain businesses are set a bit high, so I raise my hand to get the automatic doors to open. Also, KK parked at the Woodland Community Center and walked to KB's. PommyMommy suggested that she may have stepped over the low fence at the rear of the condo to get to KB's front door. If the security camera was in the front of the neighbor's condo, it may not have picked her up. So it may have been KK's height or her approach that was different. I don't think it matters all that much if she admits to being there and her cell phone pinged there (if it did). MOO

KK is 5'3" as per her booking record

 

[NWLady]

I cannot figure out how to edit my previous post about if I was a juror, but I should have said that all she/KK has been charged with is disposing of the phone, IIRC, and not charged with anything regarding cleaning up the crime scene.

 

[Kapua]

KK is 5'3" as per her booking record

Exactly. So if the motion sensor was aimed high-ish, she might not have triggered it.

 

[acutename]

All excellent questions for the defense to ask at trial. Right now, LE hasn't given us any of them.
In practical terms, there seems to be streets and sidewalks with all residences and no commercial buildings between the community center and the condo. Not quite the same as parking at Sonic. I'm sure there are cameras all along the route in Colorado, but once crossed into Utah it gets a little less population. Like it falls into the Category of "little or no" population. Then you hit the strip from Castle Gate through Salt Lake City to Tremonton, Utah, fondly referred to in the west as "the Construction Zone". There's a few short miles of farmland, and then the Great Idaho Lava Flow. It's kind of like driving through a Hawaiian volcano, except the lava is all cooled. Lots of cameras. but they're mostly in people's hands. There is a very popular rest stop in that stretch, but it's huge. I wonder how many black cars stop per hour? One hundred? Two hundred? I just can't wrap my imagination around a realistic number. It's optional to wave at Pocatello as you zoom on past it, then pretty much nothing but a lot of traffic until the turnoff to Hansen. If the defense got someone working on it right now, they would find at least one camera on that route that LE didn't think to check, by the time trial comes up. IMO

in an 800 mi trip, KK needs to stop for gas. is she always paying cash? some folks have suggested that she might have been in CO for Thanksgiving, gone back to ID, and come back to CO again, but if she is with others, she is leaving the family gathering and has to be picked up/dropped off, etc. that is complicated and would create events that people would remember.

 

[k-mac]

It’s definitely possible that’s the case.

My personal opinion is that she was complicit in the planning, but that absolutely isn’t a sure thing.

she may have missed the murder...….
but she didn't miss the desecration and abolishment of kelseys body.

he waited for her and stored the body till she got here.
this is an important picture for us imo.

2 weeks later she is partying up a storm with her buddies when LE track her down.

she went to sonic in between cleaning up the murder and the bonfire.

KK got exactly what she wanted. not sure PF did or not.

so many hearsay things I wish we could discuss!
damn msm keep up!!!!

 

[acutename]

I was going to post that the socks belonged to KB, but found that I do not know that. I had assumed someone took KB's socks off her body and left them in her trunk to create the illusion she was transported in the trunk. Maybe it has something to do with why KK said they went back to the townhome to get PF's truck, the truck KK says backed up to the haystack so it would not have been left at KB's.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV2m2 minutes ago
Defense asking about cadaver dog actions in the home. The handler reported the dog was interested in a pair of Kelsey’s underwear. Dog also alerted near Kelsey’s Toyota. Defense asked if the car was searched. Slater said yes. A pair of socks reacted with reacting test.@KOAA

they do not say what size socks.... if they were presumably KB's...

 

[acutename]

I think what @Gunslinging Granny might be thinking, and if she's not then I am, is that if the camera is located on one of the two houses seen in the background of this photo

View attachment 171669

and is angled in such a way that KB's door and/or walkway is visible, then a tall vehicle parked in the right spot along Lake Ave could block said camera from said door/walkway.

yes... if you recall, in the later camera recording of PF, they say the person "looks like PF" and seems to be wearing a clean white shirt. if the camera is that far away, the images could be less distinct. (just occurred to me- did he get himself a new shirt at Walmart? the killer always returns to the scene of the crime ...to change clothing.... would be dumb.)