CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #49 *ARREST*

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  • #1,221
I
This may sound very callous, but there are times when I don't understand our form of incarceration.

When someone commits a crime, we often want to punish them. And yet, for many criminals, punishment is nothing...it does nothing, it accomplishes nothing, and often it makes them WORSE criminals. Punishment is moot, IMO the goal should be keeping that individual from committing crime.

Why do we waste time and resources? Why not just lock them up for good, with minimal care (human treatment with the min. of resources used)?
I wonder if they are proven murderers, child rapists etc. why we keep them and feed them period. I believe in the DP 30 days to think about it then let it end, bring back death by electrocution , that penalty was a very feared penalty and some of these perpetrators might have that pause thinking about electrocution and not do their horrible deeds. Some believe it inhumane but beating a person to death is inhumane, strangling your wife in front of your child and then letting a child watch while you smother its sibling is inhumane, the list goes on. People like CW IMO seems at ease now that IT is over and all he has to do is just eat and sleep maybe work a little with no responsibilities. That punishment does not fit the crime.
Rant Over: plz no rotten apples
 
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  • #1,222
And today, in my great state, our governor, Gavin Newsom, has spared the lives of those on Death Row in CA until at least 2023.
 
  • #1,223
Not sure if this was answered yet, but no, everyone has their individual trash left at the end of driveway.


I read this quickly without reading the quoted text first, and thought it was a metaphor for our own personal life's baggage :)
 
  • #1,224
Could have been naked...

I tend to think a lot of the blood evidence was found in the bathroom because I think PF cleaned up there after his evil murder. Maybe even showered. KK could have done the same, but idk. Beating someone to death with a bat would be a really bloody scene. You’re up close and personal, so it HAD to have gotten all over his body, clothing, hair, shoes... It would make sense to shower, change clothes, bag the bloody ones up with the towels he used and throw them away. All JMO.
 
  • #1,225
And today, in my great state, our governor, Gavin Newsom, has spared the lives of those on Death Row in CA until at least 2023.
It is senseless, some people's mind set is well the State is footing the bill so no money out of my pocket. Every citizen needs to realize they ARE the State and Government and the ones footing the bills. IMO every good citizen has the right to all the benefits of our society, but when you commit heinous acts you have forfeited your right to anything period. Ok I am done!
 
  • #1,226
I struggle when these discussions turn this way. I also rankle a bit when I hear psychopath or sociopath tossed around with ease.

I can only speak from personal experience, and know singular examples are meaningless in complex issues. However, at the same time we have to filter through the life experience we have.

My biological creator was diagnosed as ASPD, with all the whispers associated of psychopathy. He met the criteria listed and discussed in previous threads to have this diagnosis. Further, the last 37 years of his life was spent in a State Mental Hospital, State Prison or halfway house.

My dear mother, much like women we discuss on here, had struggled with lower self esteem, and fell hook line and sinker for his charm. Fortunately, she was able to recognize and part ways before the most destructive things occurred. Depending on your nature or nurture view though, fortunate, or unfortunately, not before having 5 children carrying these genetics.

Being open minded and very forward thinking, my mother spent enormous resources in time, money and counseling to try and make sure the very best outcome was possible for her children. Currently the score is 5-0 in favor of the counseling overcoming the genetics, fingers crossed we range in age from 38 to 50 so still some time left in the game. However, I can tell you my cousins on that side of the family has generated at least one murderer and numerous drug using socially disruptive souls. They had no counseling and refused to think the family may have any problems.

Personally, I relate very much with the post that @Seattle posted about "a psychopath knows the words but not the music." To this day empathy is not automatic for me, it is something I recognize is necessary, and then work hard to implement. I manage, but my family likes to say if you need logic ask dad, if you need feelings ask mom.

I’m so sorry you have those genetics. I commend you for sharing your experiences and for really striving to overcome that. It sounds like you have a wonderful Mom and had great therapists. It’s always difficult for me to relate because I’m overly emotional, which isn’t always a good thing. Everything hurts my heart and often silly things hurt my feelings. My sister tends to be someone who empathy certainly doesn’t come easy for. My Dad is the same. I’ve had to always watch my step and make decisions not to be an emotional abuser, as my Dad is. Perhaps I took it too far over compensating into too much emotion. Idk. I’ve had years of therapy and it’s helped so much. Again, thank you for sharing with us. You should be very proud of yourself for overcoming so much.
 
  • #1,227
Off topic, but the gov't. in CA for the last 20+ years is one reason I moved out.

I was talking with a woman who just returned from a vacation in Cuba, she related that crime there is virtually non-existent, and felt that was due to the swift and unforgiving punishment meted out. Not a fan of Cuba's gov't., but makes you go hmmmmmm.....

Oh, I agree. Our Prison Industrial Complex system is jacked up. Our police are increasingly becoming Militarized. So much is wrong, but there’s no time like the present to try to change it. If we chilled on the ridiculous extreme prison sentences for minor drug offenses alone, we’d have a drastic drop in inmates, and more help could be offered to rehabilitate those in prison who truly do want to change. I think the long and LWOP sentences should belong to murderers, pedophiles, and such. Our police force should calm down shooting at every little thing, and go back to defusing situations and actually helping people and keeping the community safe as they do so. Idk if they’re trained to be more militant now or what. It’s not ok. I have mental health problems and I am always scared I’ll go manic and NOT be dangerous, but get shot rather than police trying to help me and get me to mental hygiene.
PF belongs in LWOP. For sure. KK deserves a good sentence, too, but it sure doesn’t appear she’ll get it with the plea deal I’m sure she was offered. Ugh!
All of the above is purely JMO.
 
  • #1,228
Bad parenting does not necessarily cause a child to develop the disorder.
Genetic tendencies play a large role, and one may or not develop a Personality Disorder depending on their environment.
The cases in that article are very severe, and rare. There are many extremes, and many times the symptoms are subtle and not easily recognized, especially in adolescents. Imo
BBM
RE the statement bolded above, that's also what I've heard about many types of brain disorders / psychological disorders. "Genetics load the gun and environment pulls the trigger." Also, "environment" includes more than parenting and family life. It can also include toxins, chemicals, heavy metals, "substances," bacteria,
etc.--things that can pass the blood-brain barrier. As mentioned previously, frontal lobe injuries can also contribute. MOO.
 
  • #1,229
BBM
RE the statement bolded above, that's also what I've heard about many types of brain disorders / psychological disorders. "Genetics load the gun and environment pulls the trigger." Also, "environment" includes more than parenting and family life. It can also include toxins, chemicals, heavy metals, "substances," bacteria,
etc.--things that can pass the blood-brain barrier. As mentioned previously, frontal lobe injuries can also contribute. MOO.

Speaking of frontal lobe injuries, I wonder how many times ole PF was kicked in the head or chest by livestock.

I rather enjoy the vivid image of one of PFs abused animals having enough of PF and then Bam how do you like it buddy.......

It seems many times animals can sense evil much quicker than what many of us mere humans can.

ETA: I know we have no proof that PF abused animals, but based on witness interviews and the way he treated animals in his own youtube videos, I think its rational to assume....MOO
 
  • #1,230
It is senseless, some people's mind set is well the State is footing the bill so no money out of my pocket. Every citizen needs to realize they ARE the State and Government and the ones footing the bills. IMO every good citizen has the right to all the benefits of our society, but when you commit heinous acts you have forfeited your right to anything period. Ok I am done!
I have mixed feelings about the death penalty, but one thing's for sure. If practiced, it cuts down on repeat offenders. But I feel bad for the person who injects the offender. I feel that it might be psychologically damaging to that person. MOO
 
  • #1,231
Off topic, but the gov't. in CA for the last 20+ years is one reason I moved out.

I was talking with a woman who just returned from a vacation in Cuba, she related that crime there is virtually non-existent, and felt that was due to the swift and unforgiving punishment meted out. Not a fan of Cuba's gov't., but makes you go hmmmmmm.....
Well as a society we have gotten soft and want all rights for every human regardless if they are criminals , because of the good people wanting to be compassionate to every human being on earth, the good people are getting their heads bashed in by baseball bats etc. etc..... adding , until we recognize and realize and agree to hard changes being made the good people will continue to be the victims. On November 22 2018 Thanksgiving Day , the Berreth family, Kelsey and baby K became victims. This vicious circle is never going to be slowed until We The People implement some harsher penalties to evil doers. Gun Rights are not the issue, CW used his bare hands to kill his whole family, JA used a knife, CM used a axe, PF used a vital piece of equipment that is used in one of the greatest sports on earth called baseball. He beat KB to death with a baseball bat. He hit her so hard her teeth became dislodged and flew out of her head. Yes - maybe we need more mental help centers and less prisons.
 
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  • #1,232
I’m so sorry you have those genetics. I commend you for sharing your experiences and for really striving to overcome that. It sounds like you have a wonderful Mom and had great therapists. It’s always difficult for me to relate because I’m overly emotional, which isn’t always a good thing. Everything hurts my heart and often silly things hurt my feelings. My sister tends to be someone who empathy certainly doesn’t come easy for. My Dad is the same. I’ve had to always watch my step and make decisions not to be an emotional abuser, as my Dad is. Perhaps I took it too far over compensating into too much emotion. Idk. I’ve had years of therapy and it’s helped so much. Again, thank you for sharing with us. You should be very proud of yourself for overcoming so much.
Thank you. I give all the credit to my Mother.

But it does make me a h2$d@$$ when it comes to buying stories of poor rough childhoods. PF be damned!
 
  • #1,233
I have mixed feelings about the death penalty, but one thing's for sure. If practiced, it cuts down on repeat offenders. But I feel bad for the person who injects the offender. I feel that it might be psychologically damaging to that person. MOO

The problem I have with it:

1: local DP cases for small communities are really expensive

2 DP inmates sit in jail for many many yrs and still costing tax dollars to keep them alive. Some end up dying a natural death before they can actually be executed.

3 The toll on the victims families that wait all those yrs not knowing when it will finally happen. not to mention the appeal after appeal hearings they have to go through.

4 But I do agree that many probably do deserve the DP.

All MOO
 
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  • #1,234
Deliberate, unremorseful murder should get the murderer locked up for life w/no possibility of parole, IMHO.
Violence and cruelty should get the murderer locked up for life without parole, absolutely. IMO MOO
 
  • #1,235
I have mixed feelings about the death penalty, but one thing's for sure. If practiced, it cuts down on repeat offenders. But I feel bad for the person who injects the offender. I feel that it might be psychologically damaging to that person. MOO
I respectfully disagree, the person that agrees to take that job is capable mentally of fulfilling his or her duties to rid our society of evil. JMHO
 
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  • #1,236
I have mixed feelings about the death penalty, but one thing's for sure. If practiced, it cuts down on repeat offenders. But I feel bad for the person who injects the offender. I feel that it might be psychologically damaging to that person. MOO

I'm against it in all cases because I don't want the government killing people. The justice system is so screwed up and so little is known about why people are the way they are, that it simply should never happen. IMO.
 
  • #1,237
I have mixed feelings about the death penalty, but one thing's for sure. If practiced, it cuts down on repeat offenders. But I feel bad for the person who injects the offender. I feel that it might be psychologically damaging to that person. MOO
Perhaps would be a lawful, clean job for NURSES, who assisted in covering up a murder before ..... :p
 
  • #1,238
third woman has emerged in the case of the missing Colorado mom, Kelsey Berreth. The woman has not been identified nor is her relationship with Patrick Frazee clear but, she was in contact with him on the day that Berreth is believed to have been killed, the Daily Mail reported.

Frazee reportedly contacted the woman after he was captured on surveillance cameras at a Walmart on Thanksgiving Day. This is the same day that Berreth went missing and is thought to have been beaten and murdered by Frazee.

At Walmart, Frazee was purchasing baby supplies, according to video footage. Frazee did have a baby carriage which is thought to hold his and Berreth’s one-year-old daughter. The video footage captured Frazee at about 1 p.m. that day.

Frazee told investigators that he had immediately returned home after picking up his daughter from Berreth. A neighbor’s surveillance camera shows that Frazee instead returned to Berreth’s home, where investigators believe that he then killed Berreth. He was at the residence for two hours.


Krystal Lee Kenney and his mother, Shelia Frazee. He then made a call to another woman in Idaho. The third woman has not been identified as a suspect in the case but was located a few miles from where Berreth’s cell phone pinged off a cell tower on Nov. 25.

The woman is known to be 39 and employed in the medical field, the Daily Mail reported. On Nov. 25 at 5:14 p.m., Berreth’s cell phone pinged a tower near the Malad Gorge State Park. Ten minutes later, the third woman called Frazee and was located 10 miles away from the park.

The search for the body of Berreth continues in a Fountain, Colorado, landfill. Frazee has been charged with first-degree murder, three counts of solicitation to commit first-degree murder, charges of tampering with a deceased body, and two charges of committing a crime of violence.
 
  • #1,239
I just saw this on line. Wasn't sure how to post it. ANOTHER WOMAN????
 
  • #1,240
I'm receiving one newsletter after another with reports about the weather in CO, with many idyllic pics of snowed streets. Snow warning, storm warning, ice warning all the time. What does happen with the landfill search?

Nobody is out searching today and all schools are closed from the Springs to probably Cripple Creek. All main roads are closed, allot of power out, and the wind is blowing the snow at 70 pmh right now in the foothills of Colorado Springs.

sorry bad photo, too windy out. 96 pmh wind gust at the airport here!
 

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