Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

The deadline has come and gone for defense lawyers to name an alternate suspect in the Kelsey Berreth murder case.
View attachment 204837
Patrick Frazee's attorneys had until 11:59 Monday night to file paperwork accusing someone else of killing Berreth late last year. The spokesperson for the Colorado Judicial Branch confirmed with 11 News Tuesday morning that the defense team did not file anything.
Deadline passes without new suspect named in Kelsey Berreth murder

Holy Crap.

Merry Christmas and Happy Birthday, DA May!

I'd love to have seen his face when he got word that the defense didn't file anything.

 

[gitana1]

Good question.

The only "alternate suspect" trial that comes to mind is Martha Moxley.

Michael Skakel's defense brought up the Skakel tutor (Littleton) in first trial as the alternate. (I believe defense wanted to blame his brother Tom as alternate suspect in the last trial).

I recall that if Michael confessed to his attorney's - they could not let him perjure himself and would have to prevent him from testifying. It didn't stop them from suggesting another killed Martha. MOO

That's true. I stupidly didn't think about it in terms of PF not testifying!

But they would have to have evidence to show the judge. See below:

Yup!

The Invisible Hand has written on the wall in this case, too.

I don't know how the phrase, "Guilty as Charged" is translated in ancient Babylonian, but that's the messaging for PF.

He's. Toast.

JMO.

He is. It's interesting to read of other cases in CO regarding this unique issue. If they intended to promote the theory of another suspect there would be a mini trial on that where they would have to argue that the evidence allows someone else to be the perp.

It's denied if it's not viable and it enables a possible juror pool to get a heads up as to what evidence there is and what the judge thinks of it.

They have NOTHING pointing to KK or they would have named her.

Judge rules out alternate suspect request by Blagg

 

[PommyMommy]

Rob McCallum
‏ @rwmccallum
12m12 minutes ago

People v Frazee: No motions or notices were filed overnight #KelseyBerreth
0 replies 4 retweets 3 likes
Rob McCallum (@rwmccallum) | Twitter

Direct link to tweet: Rob McCallum on Twitter

 

[PommyMommy]

Holy Crap.

Merry Christmas and Happy Birthday, DA May!

I'd love to have seen his face when he got word that the defense didn't file anything.

I just wish it wasn't also good news for KK. She's probably breathing a big sigh of relief.

So, if they're not going with SODDI, what's left besides merely poking holes in the prosecution's case? MOO

 

[gitana1]

I just wish it wasn't also good news for KK. She's probably breathing a big sigh of relief.

So, if they're not going with SODDI, what's left besides merely poking holes in the prosecution's case? MOO

Not much. "But there's no body. I mean I realize you have traces of her blood sprayed everywhere but maybe she slit her finger. Can't explain why I lied about where I was and why my phone and hers were in tandem after I last went to her apartment, you know, the last time she was seen alive."

 

[PommyMommy]

Not much. "But there's no body. I mean I realize you have traces of her blood sprayed everywhere but maybe she sit her finger. Can't explain why I lied about where I was and why my phone and hers were in tandem after I last went to her apartment, you know, the last time she was seen alive."

I read that as "he's toast." Lol MOO

 

[ilovechili]

I for one, and it will probably be unpopular, am not assuming anything. The days were shortened for the defense to file this. It can still be argued for coming in late, etc., however... I also do think it is entirely possible PF is sick of sitting in jail and just wants this over with and they will focus on simply tearing apart KK and let the jury ruminate themselves over what may not make sense or seem unverified or wondering about any doubts and holes not filled.... They only need one sadly... Not for an acquittal but for a do over...

IANAL but another question I have @gitana1, IF the defense delays this trial in another way, venue, judge, unavailability of a witness or whatever the possibilities are and say the trial is put off until say January or something, does this restart a timeline/filing period for the defense putting an alternate suspect defense out there...? Could they not have "new" evidence or change their mind on a defense IF the trial is delayed for another reason?

Just wondering...

Just speculating on different possibilities/jmo.

 

[GordianKnot]

I just wish it wasn't also good news for KK. She's probably breathing a big sigh of relief.

So, if they're not going with SODDI, what's left besides merely poking holes in the prosecution's case? MOO

What's left, indeed?

Probably ttrying to create reasonable doubt in the jurors' minds by discrediting witness testimony, especially KK's testimony, and by arguing that since KB's body hasn't been found, the state hasn't met the burden of proof that PF murdered her.

I also think the defense may try to insinuate that KB might have self-harmed/ killed herself.

JMO.

 

[gitana1]

I for one, and it will probably be unpopular, am not assuming anything. The days were shortened for the defense to file this. It can still be argued for coming in late, etc., however... I also do think it is entirely possible PF is sick of sitting in jail and just wants this over with and they will focus on simply tearing apart KK and let the jury ruminate themselves over what may not make sense or seem unverified or wondering about any doubts and holes not filled.... They only need one sadly... Not for an acquittal but for a do over...

IANAL but another question I have @gitana1, IF the defense delays this trial in another way, venue, judge, unavailability of a witness or whatever the possibilities are and say the trial is put off until say January or something, does this restart a timeline/filing period for the defense putting an alternate suspect defense out there...? Could they not have "new" evidence or change their mind on a defense IF the trial is delayed for another reason?

Just wondering...

Just speculating on different possibilities/jmo.

No. They're done. And PF will simply be sitting in prison. For the rest of his life. So not wanting to sit in jail until trial isn't a logical reason for him to give up his only, viable defense.

It's not an assumption. At this point it is fact. If the defense had a tiny shred of evidence that KK could have been the murderer they would be duty bound to put forth the alternate defense theory.

This is a man's life at stake (in prison for life or freedom). That is their client.

I'm nor sure what you mean by it can still be argued for "coming in late".

Did they file a writ and a request for a stay of the order to file by midnight last night?

They've had plenty of time to put together an alternate suspect theory. More than enough.

We've had people arguing on here for months that KK could have been the perp. Using all sorts of "facts" to do so. Is the defense not as smart as people posting on here? It's a filing and then a hearing. They lay out who and why it could be that person.

Just as the posters defending PF on here, the defense has had months.

 

[susiQ]

PF is much too stupid to actually realize he's stupid.

He's so dumb that he actually believes he's capable of outwitting the DA.

PF can't grasp the fact that it takes actual "wits" to outwit anyone.

He's not even a halfwit.
He's a witlesss moron who's devoid of a conscience.

I know many here believe there's some kind of strong bond b/ t PF and his Ma.
If there is, trust me, it's completely one-sided, just like all of PF's other (nonexistent) "relationships."

I don't think PF has any emotional attachments to anyone, period.

He just likes having someone who can cater to him, e.g. cook his meals, clean his room, scratch his back, trim his bangs, etc.

All of the women in his life are treated like they're glorified nannies, and by glorified, I mean, completely disrespected.
In his "mind," the women is his life exist merely to meet his needs.

He won't care one iota about getting visits from Ma in prison, unless she brings his favorite comic books and his Woody from Toy Story doll with her.

But if I'm completely wrong and he ends up pleading guilty, I'll happily fork over all my Trophy Points.

Don't get too excited, though: Turns out, those Trophy Points aren't redeemable for cash prizes or in-store discounts.

Live and learn and pass it on.

JMO.

I more than “like” this post!! You really have a way with words GK

 

[gitana1]

What's left, indeed?

Probably ttrying to create reasonable doubt in the jurors' minds by discrediting witness testimony, especially KK's testimony, and by arguing that since KB's body hasn't been found, the state hasn't met the burden of proof that PF murdered her.

I also think the defense may try to insinuate that KB might have self-harmed/ killed herself.

JMO.

Oh I can see that. Poor PF was just trying to protect her reputation! He found her dead and didn't want her name sullied. So he hid the evidence.

Watts tried something similar. He didn't want anyone to know his wife killed his kids so after he killed her in a rage he hid everyone.

 

[gitana1]

I more than “like” this post!! You really have a way with words GK

100%. I enjoy every post.

 

[Dave F.]

That was really his only strong defense.

I think we can now definitively lay to rest the theory that KK was in Colorado and committed the crime. If there was a chance in hell of that being true she would've been named.

They have the evidence that we don't. They know absolutely that she wasn't here when Kelsey was being bludgeoned to death.

Very insightful. I might also add that the defense may have knowledge and evidence of PF's whereabouts on the 22nd that the prosecution is not privy to at this time. If so, the prosecution is now forewarned, and their motion was a successful tactic. IMO

 

[ilovechili]

No. They're done. And PF will simply be sitting in prison. For the rest of his life. So not wanting to sit in jail until trial isn't a logical reason for him to give up his only, viable defense.

It's not an assumption. At this point it is fact. If the defense had a tiny shred of evidence that KK could have been the murderer they would be duty bound to put forth the alternate defense theory.

This is a man's life at stake (in prison for life or freedom). That is their client.

I'm nor sure what you mean by it can still be argued for "coming in late".

Did they file a writ and a request for a stay of the order to file by midnight last night?

They've had plenty of time to put together an alternate suspect theory. More than enough.

We've had people arguing on here for months that KK could have been the perp. Using all sorts of "facts" to do so. Is the defense not as smart as people posting on here? It's a filing and then a hearing. They lay out who and why it could be that person.

Just as the posters defending PF on here, the defense has had months.

I think we are missing each other a bit, maybe I did not ask all clearly.

He is not in prison until convicted but I know you know that and that was not a question of mine.

As for length of time, I personally have seen attorneys come in late with something or have to even have the prosecution go to the judge because the defense missed a filing date and I have seen the defense given more time upon their argument for why.

So since the defense was shorted on time, it could be one argument for coming in a bit late (or they could have others like not being able to find someone necessary to be interviewed). I do get your point of if that was the case, they should have said so yesterday. That makes sense to me but again I have seen defense coming in late and still winning an argument after the fact because nowadays the overall concern seems to be the defendant and appeal.

My other point was, let's take for instance when there is a retrial, whether due to appeal or because of a hung jury, the prosecution for instance even may go with a different strategy because they know it was not enough in the first trial, so can the defense (or new evidence, etc.). So I am wondering the same thing with any delay. If this trial is delayed for any other reason, there are deadlines before trial as I understand it, could the defense then go revisit the alternate suspect theory because now they are months away from trial again? Or in the event for that matter in a retrial due to hung jury, mistrial, etc.? I hope that is clearer not sure that it is I will check further, I was just asking the different possibilities.

I will clarify for the umpteenth million times (higher than I can count lol) that I have made clear over and over that I do not think PF is innocent and I don't care if he killed her or she did or they did together (nor how when it comes to the fact that KB is dead either way, I do care when it comes to the case though).

I think they are both guilty and both should not walk this earth personally. With all due respect, I think I should make it a tagline so I can just point to it and not repeat it all of the time, not directed at you just in general... It seems like every time people just are curious of the possibilities, the response is they think KK killed her and PF is innocent. I do not feel that way.

I was simply asking for your opinion of the possibilities with this latest deadline legally of what could occur and thanks for responding. It does not mean I favor any one way of the possibilities, I was just wondering what the possibilities are.

If I had my way, I would suggest they both be hung publicly from the suspension wires on the Mackinac Bridge but I will qualify that by saying I would not do it or seek it, I am simply venting and trying to show what my position is again.

Jmo and just my questions. I appreciated your quick response.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

Oh I can see that. Poor PF was just trying to protect her reputation! He found her dead and didn't want her name sullied. So he hid the evidence.

Watts tried something similar. He didn't want anyone to know his wife killed his kids so after he killed her in a rage he hid everyone.

I can see them trying this too. He just happened upon KB . He was so fwightened (typed it this way because I'm doing a baby voice in my head) it would be pinned on him that he got rid of her body and took her phone and pretended she was alive. He didn't do it.. It's just a crazy coincidence that he wanted KB dead...or they'll say he never wanted KB dead. KK is just a liar...she's just a crazy, petty ex-girlfriend. Poor PF is just a victim of circumstance. Barf!

They can spin it however they want but any jurer with half a brain will see right through it.

 

[Seattle1]

That was really his only strong defense.

I think we can now definitively lay to rest the theory that KK was in Colorado and committed the crime. If there was a chance in hell of that being true she would've been named.

They have the evidence that we don't. They know absolutely that she wasn't here when Kelsey was being bludgeoned to death.

Alas... KK remained in Idaho until the day she borrowed Melissa's VW and drove to the blood bath in WP.

Nobody lied about her presence at Thanksgiving dinner, no gunfire, no conspiracy. Let the trial begin...

MOO

 

[Dave F.]

I am not going to be reading too much into this. It was an unusual legal move by the prosecution, which met no resistance at all from either the defense or the judge. It does not indicate the strength of the prosecution case, and it only indicates that the defense, including PF himself, believe they have a better line of defense than Alternate Suspect. IMO

 

[gitana1]

I think we are missing each other a bit, maybe I did not ask all clearly.

He is not in prison until convicted but I know you know that and that was not a question of mine.

As for length of time, I personally have seen attorneys come in late with something or have to even have the prosecution go to the judge because the defense missed a filing date and I have seen the defense given more time upon their argument for why.

So since the defense was shorted on time, it could be one argument for coming in a bit late (or they could have others like not being able to find someone necessary to be interviewed). I do get your point of if that was the case, they should have said so yesterday. That makes sense to me but again I have seen defense coming in late and still winning an argument after the fact because nowadays the overall concern seems to be the defendant and appeal.

My other point was, let's take for instance when there is a retrial, whether due to appeal or because of a hung jury, the prosecution for instance even may go with a different strategy because they know it was not enough in the first trial, so can the defense (or new evidence, etc.). So I am wondering the same thing with any delay. If this trial is delayed for any other reason, there are deadlines before trial as I understand it, could the defense then go revisit the alternate suspect theory because now they are months away from trial again? Or in the event for that matter in a retrial due to hung jury, mistrial, etc.? I hope that is clearer not sure that it is I will check further, I was just asking the different possibilities.

I will clarify for the umpteenth million times (higher than I can count lol) that I have made clear over and over that I do not think PF is innocent and I don't care if he killed her or she did or they did together (nor how when it comes to the fact that KB is dead either way, I do care when it comes to the case though).

I think they are both guilty and both should not walk this earth personally. With all due respect, I think I should make it a tagline so I can just point to it and not repeat it all of the time, not directed at you just in general... It seems like every time people just are curious of the possibilities, the response is they think KK killed her and PF is innocent. I do not feel that way.

I was simply asking for your opinion of the possibilities with this latest deadline legally of what could occur and thanks for responding. It does not mean I favor any one way of the possibilities, I was just wondering what the possibilities are.

If I had my way, I would suggest they both be hung publicly from the suspension wires on the Mackinac Bridge but I will qualify that by saying I would not do it or seek it, I am simply venting and trying to show what my position is again.

Jmo and just my questions. I appreciated your quick response.

True. He's not in prison until he's convicted and sentenced. But rushing trial because he's tired of sitting in jail and giving up the only viable defense because he wants to hurry, is pretty much guaranteeing he will be sitting in prison for the rest of his life.

His attorneys would tell him that. And they wouldn't agree to give up such a defense just because their client is bored with jail. That's not logical.

I didn't say that if they wanted to argue they didn't have enough time to assert and alternate suspect defense they would have "said so" yesterday.

Nope. They would've filed a writ with the appellate court and a motion to stay the time limit with the trial court, pending the outcome of the writ.

If they did not do so, there is no argument that they weren't given a delay. They haven't even preserved that argument for a possible appeal since they apparently filed no writ.

However, if they had and there was a confiction and then possible appeal, yes, at a retrial they could bring it back up and ask for that finding again.

But they didn't preserve the issue. So that's a moot point. And there is simply no way in hell they wouldn't work "fast" (they've had months) to present such a theory in the hopes that somehow there would be a successful appeal based in part an issue they have no preserved for appeal.

Finally, I have not said anything about whether you feel he's innocent or not. I must take you at your word.

However, IMO, arguing that the fact that the defense threw away the only really strong defense they had creates nothing more than an assumption about whether PF murdered Kelsey, and contorting to find some way that an alternate suspect theory can somehow still come in despite the passing deadline and the absence of any legal filing to forestall that deadline, does create a definite impression of desperation to find PF is somehow innocent of the murder charge.

This is over. That's my legal opinion. There are no facts that enable KK to be the alternate suspect or those would have been brought before the court in a response to the motion to exclude.

That theory cannot now be presented at PF's trial. Done.

 

[gitana1]

I am not going to be reading too much into this. It was an unusual legal move by the prosecution, which met no resistance at all from either the defense or the judge. It does not indicate the strength of the prosecution case, and it only indicates that the defense, including PF himself, believe they have a better line of defense than Alternate Suspect. IMO

No it does not. That's not at all logical. It's also not the way it works. Even if they had a "better line of defense", all possible defenses are used if there is a basis for them. As a defense attorney you don't hang your hat on one.

There is no better defense unless they can trot in the murder victim, alive, into court, in a shining and fantastical 11th hour Perry Mason moment. Which also wouldn't happen because if the victim was alive the defense would file to release the defendant from jail immediately.

ETA: It was also not at all an "unusual move" by the state. It's standard in CO. Why would you think it's unusual?

 

[MassGuy]

I’m not the kind of person to jump up and down with excitement, but if I was, that’s what I’d be doing right now.

I fully expected the defense to blame this on KK, despite the fact that the evidence was not on their side.

Apparently they realized that pointing the finger at someone who wasn’t there, would have been insane.

I could have told them that months ago.