Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[ilovechili]

I think I will disagree, respectfully, with almost every single point that you have. Walmart doesn't have dummy cameras like other private corporations and governmental folks (Lueck case e.g.)

Walmart is very very very well-known within this community for having things that close a case and are very key. (e.g. Heather Elvis last week, and many others m o o)

They may not have sensitivity to reach out to get a shot of facial recognition for their entire parking lot, but they in do indeed are key as far as showing the travel of cars on many cases where the identity was picked up with in Walmart or afterwards.

They may not have a wide shot for each camera, but they have so many that they are put together. If you follow crime shows on television, it shows it again and again and again. M o o.

Your multiple comments about the tapes not going more than 24 hours, and the tapes being reused, that was probably 10 years ago.

These days everything is electronic. Walmart used electronics . They don't use tapes anymore moo. Walmart doesn't use tapes that are overwritten.

We have seen here many times that the video surveillance has from Walmart have been retrieved weeks afterwards.

Criminals should know better than to do stuff at Home Depot or Walmart, as they are the number one surveillance folks and Logistics folks.

Moo

Exactly. ITA. I am just catching up so may be behind but it has gotten to the point where Walmart could teach casinos about security and cameras...

Jmo.

 

[ilovechili]

No evidence has been shown that KK was at Kelsey's condo on the day she was last seen alive and
we can rest assured that LE knows where KK was.

All the mental maneuvering in the world won't put her where she wasn't.

Video evidence proves that Frazee was at the condo on the last day Kelsey was seen alive.

All the mental maneuvering in the world won't change that.

Not a fact so far has convinced me that KB died on Thanksgiving Day.

Just saying I hope that can be shown... I sometimes do not leave home for days on end...

Jmo.

 

[ilovechili]

35 days if you believe the trial will start on time.

I am doing a countdown.

 

[MassGuy]

Not a fact so far has convinced me that KB died on Thanksgiving Day.

Just saying I hope that can be shown... I sometimes do not leave home for days on end...

Jmo.

Yes, but does your phone leave your house when you don’t?

Hers did, and it left at the same time PF left (according to cell phone data and surveillance footage).

Of course it shouldn’t have, because PF told law enforcement he never saw Kelsey again after they exchanged the baby.

Just one of his many lies, and I’d argue, the most damning.

 

[Love Never Fails]

No evidence has been shown that KK was at Kelsey's condo on the day she was last seen alive and
we can rest assured that LE knows where KK was.

All the mental maneuvering in the world won't put her where she wasn't.

Video evidence proves that Frazee was at the condo on the last day Kelsey was seen alive.

All the mental maneuvering in the world won't change that.

MemPat, you are likely correct but we don’t yet have a body to confirm how or the time KB died. We do have the testimony of a known liar. So I still wonder if KB was beaten (and not with a bat) and disabled and taken somewhere and shot and dumped. I’m not sold on the theory of the bat killing in the condo, even though blood was indeed found there.
And I am not sure she was burned in a bonfire, although some of her items may have been burned. I think it’s been stated it takes intense heat for a much longer period to burn a body completely. And if LE was certain her body was destroyed in a fire, I doubt they would have spent thousands of dollars to look for her in a dump. However, moving on.

If LE wants to take the word of someone who lied to them, lied to her family and friends, etc. and put PF on trial and send him to prison for life that is fine with me because I believe he is guilty. As long as as the State can prove it’s case, I am good with it.

It is just so irritating that KKL and her friends, who all were told PF was soliciting KKL to kill KB, could sleep so well at night. Did they not ever say to themselves, “If I find out that lady has been murdered, I will never be able to live with myself. I need to call the police NOW.”

 

[Love Never Fails]

Yes, but does your phone leave your house when you don’t?

Hers did, and it left at the same time PF left (according to cell phone data and surveillance footage).

Of course it shouldn’t have, because PF told law enforcement he never saw Kelsey again after they exchanged the baby.

Just one of his many lies, and I’d argue, the most damning.

According to the AW, Kelsey didn’t use her phone the rest of that day or night either. And that would be hard for anyone to believe. People are always on their phones. I just wish we had a body to know when and how KB died and not the word of a woman who lied to her friends, her husband, her family, well, everyone she knew.

 

[Love Never Fails]

35 days if you believe the trial will start on time.

I am doing a countdown.

Not sure I believe it.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Not a fact so far has convinced me that KB died on Thanksgiving Day.

Just saying I hope that can be shown... I sometimes do not leave home for days on end...

Jmo.

Wish we knew for sure. I think we may never know.

 

[MassGuy]

According to the AW, Kelsey didn’t use her phone the rest of that day or night either. And that would be hard for anyone to believe. People are always on their phones. I just wish we had a body to know when and how KB died and not the word of a woman who lied to her friends, her husband, her family, well, everyone she knew.

I’m not relying on KK to determine when Kelsey died. I’m going solely by the surveillance footage, cell phone data, and the lie that put that all in perspective.

How she died, is in fact based on KK’s account. Not that it really matters though, as all the jury has to believe is that Kelsey is dead, and PF did it.

However, there is forensic evidence to support it, and those solicitation attempts (two involving beatings) in which KK threw herself under the bus to reveal.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I’m not relying on KK to determine when Kelsey died. I’m going solely by the surveillance footage, cell phone data, and the lie that put that all in perspective.

How she died, is in fact based on KK’s account. Not that it really matters though, as all the jury has to believe is that Kelsey is dead, and PF did it.

However, there is forensic evidence to support it, and those solicitation attempts (two involving beatings) in which KK threw herself under the bus to reveal.

The surveillance footage shows PF being there but not the murder. How she died with the candles and all that sounds like something a woman made up, not something a guy would really do. This sounded like a rage killing. I don’t think he would care to blindfold her. I have read, and cannot quote here, that the cell phone data is a little shaky that’s why I am anxious for the trial. If KKL destroyed her phone, and she said she and PF communicated on FB and the FB history was erased then what if LE only has KKLs story about the solicitations?

My argument here is not with you at all. They can lock him up and throw away the key. What gets to me is the realization every day that KKL is absolutely insane. She could have prevented this death and I am sure she is the one who instigated or planted the thought in PFs mind. You understand it’s only my opinion. It doesn’t change the outcome.

But remember now, after supposedly cleaning up a horrific crime scene, she goes to party in Las Vegas. Talk about a cold blooded woman.

I just keep hoping she trips up in her testimony and is sentenced to prison for quite some time. I should think everyone here would want the same. That’s all.

 

[MemPat]

I'm never surprised to learn that people with personality disorders end up with "friends" who also have personality disorders and that they often partner up to engage in criminal activity against good people.
That obviously happened here.

(Good people actually drive them insane when they thwart their efforts, so the consensus is that they need to die?)
That also seems to have happened here.

Inevitably these days when a crime is committed, LE bumps into the "friends" through cell phone records.
That happened here big time. (Hello, KK.....We see you!)

The phone records solidify the fact that the "friends" were tangled up with the perp at some point and they are forced into making a deal.
That's our KK!

Do they spill everything illegal they've ever done when they make that deal?
Probably not.

Does LE just buy every story the "friends" spout without corroboration?
Of course not.

Does LE look at things like the aborted "metal pole" event to lend credence to the baseball bat situation?
I would bet on that.

How much blood (or evidence of cleaned-up blood) has to be in a condo to prove it's a crime scene?
LE knows that or Frazee wouldn't be in jail for murder with no bond.

Does it make sense to twist and turn the very logical facts laid out by the "friend" when we know LE has records, video and DNA evidence that fit the narrative.
Nope.

Are we offended that the KKs of the world have friends who failed to pass on her murderous plans with Frazee to LE? Are we surprised?
Yes. No.

Can we believe it when people with personality disorders party hard after committing horrific crimes?
I can.



MOO

 

[GordianKnot]

I just keep hoping she trips up in her testimony and is sentenced to prison for quite some time. I should think everyone here would want the same. That’s all.

RSABBMFF (Respectfully Snipped and Bolded By Me For Focus):

I actually don't want that to happen at all.

From my perspective, that would be nothing short of catastrophic.

If KK gets up on the stand and "trips up," i.e., lies during her testimony, then her testimony will be discredited in front of the jury, which means PF could walk.

If it's a choice between the two, I'd much rather see KK walking out of the courtroom than PF.
And when I say if it's a choice between the two, I mean, it's definitely a choice between the two at this point, simply because of the deal.

The DA determined that he needed KK's cooperation in order to gather enough evidence to build an iron-clad case against PF.
Hence, the sweetie beauty of a deal was struck.
Once that deal was inked, KK led LE directly to valuable evidence that they wouldn't have known about without her. We know this is the case because DA May himself said it.

If KK reneges on her deal by lying under oath, she'll go to jail.
Now, don't get me wrong here: that's precisely where she belongs.

However, in the event that KK lies on that stand, PF will most likely get off, or there'll be a hung jury.
He could walk out of that courtroom a free man.
That simply cannot happen.

He's incredibly violent.
He's unbelievably dangerous.
He's utterly remorseless.
He's a cold-blooded murderer.

KK may have wanted KB dead.
But she didn't want it enough to kill her.

PF wanted KB dead enough to kill her.

Therein lies the difference between those two.

We all despise KK, on account of she's utterly despicable.
But it's her testimony that's going to drive the nails into PF's coffin.
I want her to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth up on that stand.
Because if she does that, PF goes away forever.

JMO.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I'm never surprised to learn that people with personality disorders end up with "friends" who also have personality disorders and that they often partner up to engage in criminal activity against good people.
That obviously happened here.

(Good people actually drive them insane when they thwart their efforts, so the consensus is that they need to die?)
That also seems to have happened here.

Inevitably these days when a crime is committed, LE bumps into the "friends" through cell phone records.
That happened here big time. (Hello, KK.....We see you!)

The phone records solidify the fact that the "friends" were tangled up with the perp at some point and they are forced into making a deal.
That's our KK!

Do they spill everything illegal they've ever done when they make that deal?
Probably not.

Does LE just buy every story the "friends" spout without corroboration?
Of course not.

Does LE look at things like the aborted "metal pole" event to lend credence to the baseball bat situation?
I would bet on that.

How much blood (or evidence of cleaned-up blood) has to be in a condo to prove it's a crime scene?
LE knows that or Frazee wouldn't be in jail for murder with no bond.

Does it make sense to twist and turn the very logical facts laid out by the "friend" when we know LE has records, video and DNA evidence that fit the narrative.
Nope.

Are we offended that the KKs of the world have friends who failed to pass on her murderous plans with Frazee? Are we surprised?
Yes. No.

Can we believe it when people with personality disorders party after committing horrific crimes?
I can.



MOO

This is a good quote MemPat and I appreciate it.

But does it make sense for you to say I twist or turn the facts that KK laid out? Nope. Does it hurt me as a poster for you to say that to me or for another poster to say that someone who thinks differently than what has been laid out is an idiot? Yes it hurts. I don’t see it as facts. I see it as a theory backed up by a liar.

I carefully stated she was likely beaten there.
Frazee is in jail because KKL gave LE their narrative. Can they back it up? We hope so.

 

[Love Never Fails]

RSABBMFF (Respectfully Snipped and Bolded By Me For Focus):

I actually don't want that to happen at all.

From my perspective, that would be nothing short of catastrophic.

If KK gets up on the stand and "trips up," i.e., lies during her testimony, then her testimony will be discredited in front of the jury, which means PF could walk.

If it's a choice between the two, I'd much rather see KK walking out of the courtroom than PF.
And when I say if it's a choice between the two, I mean, it's definitely a choice between the two at this point, simply because of the deal.

The DA determined that he needed KK's cooperation in order to gather enough evidence to build an iron-clad case against PF.
Hence, the sweetie beauty of a deal was struck.
Once that deal was inked, KK led LE directly to valuable evidence that they wouldn't have known about without her. We know this is the case because DA May himself said it.

If KK reneges on her deal by lying under oath, she'll go to jail.
Don't get me wrong here: that's precisely where she belongs.

However, in the event that KK lies on that stand, PF will most likely get off, or there'll be a hung jury.
He could walk out of that courtroom a free man.
That simply cannot happen.

He's incredibly violent.
He's unbelievably dangerous.
He's utterly remorseless.
He's a cold-blooded murderer.

KK may have wanted KB dead.
But she didn't want it enough to kill her.

PF wanted KB dead enough to kill her.

Therein lies the difference between those two.

We all despise KK, on account of she's utterly despicable.
But it's her testimony that's going to drive the nails into PF's coffin.
I want her to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth up on that stand.
Because if she does that, PF goes away forever.

JMO.

GK, I don’t want KK to trip up and lie. You and I are on the same side. What I meant is while PF will be put away, I hope the DA can find a way through her testimony and past lies to put her in prison and keep her in prison for a long while.

 

[MemPat]

This is a good quote MemPat and I appreciate it.

But does it make sense for you to say I twist or turn the facts that KK laid out? Nope. Does it hurt me as a poster for you to say that to me or for another poster to say that someone who thinks differently than what has been laid out is an idiot? Yes it hurts. I don’t see it as facts. I see it as a theory backed up by a liar.

I carefully stated she was likely beaten there.
Frazee is in jail because KKL gave LE their narrative. Can they back it up? We hope so.

Just stating how I feel about the case and purposefully didn't link it as a response to anyone.

Sorting out my thoughts in simple sentences is helpful.

Consider this a conversation with myself!

Everything we say here is a theory unless it is backed up by testimony.

[The only idiot I know is my ex son-in-law.]

 

[MemPat]

RSABBMFF (Respectfully Snipped and Bolded By Me For Focus):

I actually don't want that to happen at all.

From my perspective, that would be nothing short of catastrophic.

If KK gets up on the stand and "trips up," i.e., lies during her testimony, then her testimony will be discredited in front of the jury, which means PF could walk.

If it's a choice between the two, I'd much rather see KK walking out of the courtroom than PF.
And when I say if it's a choice between the two, I mean, it's definitely a choice between the two at this point, simply because of the deal.

The DA determined that he needed KK's cooperation in order to gather enough evidence to build an iron-clad case against PF.
Hence, the sweetie beauty of a deal was struck.
Once that deal was inked, KK led LE directly to valuable evidence that they wouldn't have known about without her. We know this is the case because DA May himself said it.

If KK reneges on her deal by lying under oath, she'll go to jail.
Now, don't get me wrong here: that's precisely where she belongs.

However, in the event that KK lies on that stand, PF will most likely get off, or there'll be a hung jury.
He could walk out of that courtroom a free man.
That simply cannot happen.

He's incredibly violent.
He's unbelievably dangerous.
He's utterly remorseless.
He's a cold-blooded murderer.

KK may have wanted KB dead.
But she didn't want it enough to kill her.

PF wanted KB dead enough to kill her.

Therein lies the difference between those two.

We all despise KK, on account of she's utterly despicable.
But it's her testimony that's going to drive the nails into PF's coffin.
I want her to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth up on that stand.
Because if she does that, PF goes away forever.

JMO.

BBM
"KK may have wanted KB dead.
But she didn't want it enough to kill her.

PF wanted KB dead enough to kill her.

Therein lies the difference between those two."

Yes!
I love it when someone boils a case down to a few words!

 

[MemPat]

This is a good quote MemPat and I appreciate it.

But does it make sense for you to say I twist or turn the facts that KK laid out? Nope. Does it hurt me as a poster for you to say that to me or for another poster to say that someone who thinks differently than what has been laid out is an idiot? Yes it hurts. I don’t see it as facts. I see it as a theory backed up by a liar.

I carefully stated she was likely beaten there.
Frazee is in jail because KKL gave LE their narrative. Can they back it up? We hope so.

I tried to remove "twist and turn" from my post since you found it offensive but it was too late to delete.

I totally agree with you that it will be great if KK's narrative is backed up.
I trust DA May in a big way!

Have a great night!

 

[GordianKnot]

BBM
"KK may have wanted KB dead.
But she didn't want it enough to kill her.

PF wanted KB dead enough to kill her.

Therein lies the difference between those two."

Yes!
I love it when someone boils a case down to a few words!

Well, reading just these few lines, I realized that I was basically just restating another poster's brilliant analysis of this case. Unfortunately, I don't recall which poster it was who came up with it, exactly, but here it is again:

"The MassGuy Theorem"

If we took KK out of the equation, KB would still be dead.
If we took PF out of the equation, KB would still be alive.

That really is sheer genius.

I hope DA May uses that in his closing arguments, along with a bunch of other lines from this forum.

Maybe we should go back and post some of our favorite lines from previous threads here.
There've been a ton of notable quotes throughout these 55 threads.

JMO.

 

[MemPat]

Well, reading just these few lines, I realized that I was basically just restating another poster's brilliant analysis of this case.

Unfortunately, I don't recall which poster it was who came up with it, exactly, but here it is:

"The MassGuy Theorem"

If we took KK out of the equation, KB would still be dead.
If we took PF out of the equation, KB would still be alive.

That really is sheer genius.

I hope DA May uses that in his closing arguments, along with a bunch of others from this forum.

Maybe we should go back and post some of our favorite lines from previous threads here.
There've been a ton of notable quotes throughout these 55 threads.

JMO.

"He swung the bat!" remains my favorite.
You? MG?

Either way.....says it all!

 

[MassGuy]

"He swung the bat!" remains my favorite.
You? MG?

Either way.....says it all!

I don’t think so. I think that phrase was coined by some long-winded poster whose name eludes me.

I do love that one though.