Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

"He swung the bat!" remains my favorite.
You? MG?

Either way.....says it all!

Would you believe, I've actually researched which one of us used that phrase first?

I don't want to give away the answer here.

Which probably gives away the answer. Ironically.

 

[MemPat]

Would you believe, I've actually researched which one of us used that phrase first?

I don't want to give away the answer here.

Which probably gives away the answer. Ironically.

Take a bow, GK....

Humility is so yesterday.

 

[k-mac]

MemPat, you are likely correct but we don’t yet have a body to confirm how or the time KB died. We do have the testimony of a known liar. So I still wonder if KB was beaten (and not with a bat) and disabled and taken somewhere and shot and dumped. I’m not sold on the theory of the bat killing in the condo, even though blood was indeed found there.
And I am not sure she was burned in a bonfire, although some of her items may have been burned. I think it’s been stated it takes intense heat for a much longer period to burn a body completely. And if LE was certain her body was destroyed in a fire, I doubt they would have spent thousands of dollars to look for her in a dump. However, moving on.

If LE wants to take the word of someone who lied to them, lied to her family and friends, etc. and put PF on trial and send him to prison for life that is fine with me because I believe he is guilty. As long as as the State can prove it’s case, I am good with it.

It is just so irritating that KKL and her friends, who all were told PF was soliciting KKL to kill KB, could sleep so well at night. Did they not ever say to themselves, “If I find out that lady has been murdered, I will never be able to live with myself. I need to call the police NOW.”

it just seems so unfair her end of things I know.

I do believe that LE have 100%solid confirmation of her location.

the bit that does my head in though, I believe KK the ring master. she wanted this as much as he did.
HE did it.....but she wanted it.
"you've got a mess to clean up"......

the delightful hair flicking and checking self out in the mirror waiting at sonic....for a snack to go see her lover..........after cleaning up her rivals gizzards (sorry but that's the picture ) her boyfriend splattered everywhere.

sick........she disgusts me beyond words.

same camp as tammy whats her face. the heather elvis case.
least tammy will rot in prison.

moo

 

[ilovechili]

Yes, but does your phone leave your house when you don’t?

Hers did, and it left at the same time PF left (according to cell phone data and surveillance footage).

Of course it shouldn’t have, because PF told law enforcement he never saw Kelsey again after they exchanged the baby.

Just one of his many lies, and I’d argue, the most damning.

Yes my phone has left the house when I have not. Some years back in fact, my bf and I took each other's phones home. They were identical. Unbeknownst to me, he had two phones with the same number so when he realized he did not have his own, he used the 2nd one at work the next day. The one in my purse kept ringing and when I picked it up I could hear his conversations with his employees. I could not for the life of me figure out why my phone was so messed up and what was going on lol. Once I recognized one voice was his, I realized I had his phone. Lucky guy never said anything wrong so no problem but yes, I have had it happen.

A second time I left it in the car and loaned my car to an adult child.

And then once we loaned a phone to my FIL and MIL. They had never used a cell phone but were taking a trip and thought it would be wise to have one with for safety. We showed them the rudimentary basics of how to use it and loaned them one of our two phones. Let me tell you, that one traveled and pinged, etc. but we were never in the states the phone was.

I can also add I have a relative who leaves hers in her vehicle (not purposely, she simply does not live by it) just about all of the time and for days cannot be reached by text, etc.

All that said, I do not believe something so convenient happened here. However, KB could have been with her phone, disabled by a bat, taken at gun point or anything else even if someone had control of her phone.

There is a very reasoned (for some good reasons) date of death as the 22nd but it is circumstantial evidence, which is not bad evidence, I am simply saying that is what it is, at least as far as we know now.

Jmo.

 

[ilovechili]

MemPat, you are likely correct but we don’t yet have a body to confirm how or the time KB died. We do have the testimony of a known liar. So I still wonder if KB was beaten (and not with a bat) and disabled and taken somewhere and shot and dumped. I’m not sold on the theory of the bat killing in the condo, even though blood was indeed found there.
And I am not sure she was burned in a bonfire, although some of her items may have been burned. I think it’s been stated it takes intense heat for a much longer period to burn a body completely. And if LE was certain her body was destroyed in a fire, I doubt they would have spent thousands of dollars to look for her in a dump. However, moving on.

If LE wants to take the word of someone who lied to them, lied to her family and friends, etc. and put PF on trial and send him to prison for life that is fine with me because I believe he is guilty. As long as as the State can prove it’s case, I am good with it.

It is just so irritating that KKL and her friends, who all were told PF was soliciting KKL to kill KB, could sleep so well at night. Did they not ever say to themselves, “If I find out that lady has been murdered, I will never be able to live with myself. I need to call the police NOW.”

No, they never said that to themselves because imo they are lacking something which is called a conscience. Some have one and some do not. They are often the same types who lie to husbands, lie for friends, loan cars for dirty deeds, etc.

Jmo though.

 

[ilovechili]

I don't care who swung the bat. They both belong off of the streets, off of the horse, off of the top of the hay bales and behind bars where they can never have a roll in the hay, at least together, again...

But in discussing that phrase, have you ever seen a suicide scene or what you suspect is a murder scene? Or dozens and dozens of photos of such? Even from a single gun shot?

Or a bill for clean up for same detailing hours and time and the number of people on the crew?

There is a reason people have questions. And hopefully one day they will be answered.

Jmo.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes my phone has left the house when I have not. Some years back in fact, my bf and I took each other's phones home. They were identical. Unbeknownst to me, he had two phones with the same number so when he realized he did not have his own, he used the 2nd one at work the next day. The one in my purse kept ringing and when I picked it up I could hear his conversations with his employees. I could not for the life of me figure out why my phone was so messed up and what was going on lol. Once I recognized one voice was his, I realized I had his phone. Lucky guy never said anything wrong so no problem but yes, I have had it happen.

A second time I left it in the car and loaned my car to an adult child.

And then once we loaned a phone to my FIL and MIL. They had never used a cell phone but were taking a trip and thought it would be wise to have one with for safety. We showed them the rudimentary basics of how to use it and loaned them one of our two phones. Let me tell you, that one traveled and pinged, etc. but we were never in the states the phone was.

I can also add I have a relative who leaves hers in her vehicle (not purposely, she simply does not live by it) just about all of the time and for days cannot be reached by text, etc.

All that said, I do not believe something so convenient happened here. However, KB could have been with her phone, disabled by a bat, taken at gun point or anything else even if someone had control of her phone.

There is a very reasoned (for some good reasons) date of death as the 22nd but it is circumstantial evidence, which is not bad evidence, I am simply saying that is what it is, at least as far as we know now.

Jmo.

I’m reading a book on the Michelle Young murder case, and I really loved what the author had to say about circumstantial evidence:

Circumstantial evidence doesn’t need to be grounded on hard science to be convincing. Sometimes, common sense alone is sufficient to make circumstantial evidence powerful.

If one wakes up in the morning to find snow covering the ground, they know it snowed overnight. Yet the evidence one is relying on to reach that conclusion is entirely circumstantial and not based on science. It is based only on life experience.

PF lied about when he last saw Kelsey. He was caught on camera both entering and leaving her house in the hours after they supposedly exchanged the baby.

When he left, Kelsey’s phone did as well. Her voice was never heard again, she was never seen again, and her phone remained with PF’s until KK took it back to Idaho.

To me, logic and common sense says that Kelsey was murdered between when PF entered that house, and when he left it (1:24 to 3:36 on Thanksgiving Day).

 

[ilovechili]

I’m reading a book on the Michelle Young murder case, and I really loved what the author had to say about circumstantial evidence:

Circumstantial evidence doesn’t need to be grounded on hard science to be convincing. Sometimes, common sense alone is sufficient to make circumstantial evidence powerful.

If one wakes up in the morning to find snow covering the ground, they know it snowed overnight. Yet the evidence one is relying on to reach that conclusion is entirely circumstantial and not based on science. It is based only on life experience.

PF lied about when he last saw Kelsey. He was caught on camera both entering and leaving her house in the hours after they supposedly exchanged the baby.

When he left, Kelsey’s phone did as well. Her voice was never heard again, she was never seen again, and her phone remained with PF’s until KK took it back to Idaho.

To me, logic and common sense says that Kelsey was murdered between when PF entered that house, and when he left it (1:24 to 3:36 on Thanksgiving Day).

Yes, I said in my post for good reason they believe she died on the 22nd, you may have missed that part, and almost all evidence is circumstantial in all cases, even DNA I have recently learned and in no way is that bad evidence, I would convict on it if it can be put together logically which hopefully it can and enough holes filled.

I would like to see video of KB or her body leaving the residence and KK entering and leaving to clean, etc.

These are questions tons of people have.

Not everything is an argument and if it has to be I or others should go play a game of Whack-A-Mole.

Jmo.

 

[MassGuy]

I don't care who swung the bat. They both belong off of the streets, off of the horse, off of the top of the hay bales and behind bars where they can never have a roll in the hay, at least together, again...

But in discussing that phrase, have you ever seen a suicide scene or what you suspect is a murder scene? Or dozens and dozens of photos of such? Even from a single gun shot?

Or a bill for clean up for same detailing hours and time and the number of people on the crew?

There is a reason people have questions. And hopefully one day they will be answered.

Jmo.

I do. The person who swung the bat is the murderer. That’s how our legal system works.

That’s why he’s charged with murder, and she got the deal to end all deals.

If Patrick Frazee wasn’t around, there would not have been a murder.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, I said in my post for good reason they believe she died on the 22nd, you may have missed that part, and almost all evidence is circumstantial in all cases, even DNA I have recently learned and in no way is that bad evidence, I would convict on it if it can be put together logically which hopefully it can and enough holes filled.

I would like to see video of KB or her body leaving the residence and KK entering and leaving to clean, etc.

These are questions tons of people have.

Not everything is an argument and if it has to be I or others should go play a game of Whack-A-Mole.

Jmo.

There is no video. Her cell phone put her in the area of Kelsey’s house on the morning of the 24th.

She was caught in a lie in this regard, as she claimed she was at PF’s house at the time.

Cell records nailed her though.

 

[ilovechili]

I do. The person who swung the bat is the murderer. That’s how our legal system works.

That’s why he’s charged with murder, and she got the deal to end all deals.

If Patrick Frazee wasn’t around, there would not have been a murder.

Gotcha. I well know your opinion and you seem to have no idea of mine despite my constant repetition that he is guilty.

I guess it is too bad they don't have the bat then.

I have continually said they both deserve to be off of the street and behind bars and many "accomplices" are.

No argument here, I have great and total respect for anyone's opinion.

34 days and counting...

All jmvho.

 

[ilovechili]

There is no video. Her cell phone put her in the area of Kelsey’s house on the morning of the 24th.

She was caught in a lie in this regard, as she claimed she was at PF’s house at the time.

Cell records nailed her though.

Video of her anywhere you think? Sonic I suppose. And her car. I know even though she is not on trial that they would want to corroborate all they can for the plea deal.

Jmo.

ETA: Her borrowed car I meant...

 

[MassGuy]

Gotcha. I well know your opinion and you seem to have no idea of mine despite my constant repetition that he is guilty.

I guess it is too bad they don't have the bat then.

I have continually said they both deserve to be off of the street and behind bars and many "accomplices" are.

No argument here, I have great and total respect for anyone's opinion.

34 days and counting...

All jmvho.

I was responding to “I don’t care who swung the bat. They both belong off the streets...”

Who swung the bat is literally the most important part of this case.

Can you explain why that doesn’t matter?

 

[ilovechili]

I was responding to “I don’t care who swung the bat. They both belong off the streets...”

Who swung the bat is literally the most important part of this case.

Can you explain why that doesn’t matter?

It does not matter to ME, it may by the law.

It does not matter to me because they both conspired to murder her, no one saved her or pulled out and went to LE to tell them, etc. In the eyes of what I believe in, they both should be off of the streets, whether it was by coffee, metal rod, bat, gun, you name it.

It is my opinion and nothing has changed it throughout.

And jmvho.

ETA: And if she had pulled out she would not have come to be the clean-up girl and disposal girl driving "home".

 

[ilovechili]

RSABBMFF (Respectfully Snipped and Bolded By Me For Focus):

I actually don't want that to happen at all.

From my perspective, that would be nothing short of catastrophic.

If KK gets up on the stand and "trips up," i.e., lies during her testimony, then her testimony will be discredited in front of the jury, which means PF could walk.

If it's a choice between the two, I'd much rather see KK walking out of the courtroom than PF.
And when I say if it's a choice between the two, I mean, it's definitely a choice between the two at this point, simply because of the deal.

The DA determined that he needed KK's cooperation in order to gather enough evidence to build an iron-clad case against PF.
Hence, the sweetie beauty of a deal was struck.
Once that deal was inked, KK led LE directly to valuable evidence that they wouldn't have known about without her. We know this is the case because DA May himself said it.

If KK reneges on her deal by lying under oath, she'll go to jail.
Now, don't get me wrong here: that's precisely where she belongs.

However, in the event that KK lies on that stand, PF will most likely get off, or there'll be a hung jury.
He could walk out of that courtroom a free man.
That simply cannot happen.

He's incredibly violent.
He's unbelievably dangerous.
He's utterly remorseless.
He's a cold-blooded murderer.

KK may have wanted KB dead.
But she didn't want it enough to kill her.

PF wanted KB dead enough to kill her.

Therein lies the difference between those two.

We all despise KK, on account of she's utterly despicable.
But it's her testimony that's going to drive the nails into PF's coffin.
I want her to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth up on that stand.
Because if she does that, PF goes away forever.

JMO.

I admit I did not bother reading this entire post, heading out for moonlit golf...

I just want to say I am not sure KK knows what the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is. Chronic liars and drama queens are not always that hard to spot and that is what I see her as... I have seen no evidence of such yet that she has a clue of the definition of truth...

She could have bailed before being called back to be the clean-up girl or Merry Maid or whatever one wants to call it and the disposal girl and texter. She did not. Witchy woman...

Jmo though.

 

[k-mac]

@Love Never Fails did you see my post?? (couple back)
I was supporting your point. well, thought I was! x

the general consensus here imo is a sacrifice has been made (kk sweety beauty of deal) but sometimes doing a deal with the devil is necessary.
I don't think they should have either....but I trust LE had very important reasoning in doing so.
hopefully it will all make sense when this trial gets underway.

moo

 

[GordianKnot]

Take a bow, GK....

Humility is so yesterday.

Wellllll.....If you insist.

The phrase, "He swung the bat," was first used here on 01/21/19.
Thread #41.
Post #1156.

That's all you're getting out of me.

 

[ilovechili]

Wellllll.....If you insist.

The phrase, "He swung the bat," was first used here on 01/21/19.
Thread #41.
Post #1156.

That's all you're getting out of me.

Kudos.

 

[ilovechili]

Salud.

 

[ilovechili]

Happy Oktoberfest coming up when we see PF sentenced if KK does not crumble or lie.

And Feliz Navidad when she is sentenced next to an ankle bracelet probably in December.

We can then celebrate the woman getting any kind of sentence for wiping a mom's blood off of baby toys.

MOO.

ETA: I probably had better correct that PF's trial will go to November b4 I get corrected--but that is if it even goes off on time and there is no mistrial or problem or delay.