Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #55 *ARREST*

[ilovechili]

34 days and then after KK gets sentenced... Probably will be able to call in...

 

[gitana1]

MemPat, you are likely correct but we don’t yet have a body to confirm how or the time KB died. We do have the testimony of a known liar. So I still wonder if KB was beaten (and not with a bat) and disabled and taken somewhere and shot and dumped. I’m not sold on the theory of the bat killing in the condo, even though blood was indeed found there.
And I am not sure she was burned in a bonfire, although some of her items may have been burned. I think it’s been stated it takes intense heat for a much longer period to burn a body completely. And if LE was certain her body was destroyed in a fire, I doubt they would have spent thousands of dollars to look for her in a dump. However, moving on.

If LE wants to take the word of someone who lied to them, lied to her family and friends, etc. and put PF on trial and send him to prison for life that is fine with me because I believe he is guilty. As long as as the State can prove it’s case, I am good with it.

It is just so irritating that KKL and her friends, who all were told PF was soliciting KKL to kill KB, could sleep so well at night. Did they not ever say to themselves, “If I find out that lady has been murdered, I will never be able to live with myself. I need to call the police NOW.”

I can guarantee you that LE didn't just take her word for it. This was a long process with a lot of investigation to confirm or refute her statments.

 

[gitana1]

I’m not relying on KK to determine when Kelsey died. I’m going solely by the surveillance footage, cell phone data, and the lie that put that all in perspective.

How she died, is in fact based on KK’s account. Not that it really matters though, as all the jury has to believe is that Kelsey is dead, and PF did it.

However, there is forensic evidence to support it, and those solicitation attempts (two involving beatings) in which KK threw herself under the bus to reveal.

Yeah the timeline is super tight here. It's pretty clear to me.

 

[gitana1]

RSABBMFF (Respectfully Snipped and Bolded By Me For Focus):

I actually don't want that to happen at all.

From my perspective, that would be nothing short of catastrophic.

If KK gets up on the stand and "trips up," i.e., lies during her testimony, then her testimony will be discredited in front of the jury, which means PF could walk.

If it's a choice between the two, I'd much rather see KK walking out of the courtroom than PF.
And when I say if it's a choice between the two, I mean, it's definitely a choice between the two at this point, simply because of the deal.

The DA determined that he needed KK's cooperation in order to gather enough evidence to build an iron-clad case against PF.
Hence, the sweetie beauty of a deal was struck.
Once that deal was inked, KK led LE directly to valuable evidence that they wouldn't have known about without her. We know this is the case because DA May himself said it.

If KK reneges on her deal by lying under oath, she'll go to jail.
Now, don't get me wrong here: that's precisely where she belongs.

However, in the event that KK lies on that stand, PF will most likely get off, or there'll be a hung jury.
He could walk out of that courtroom a free man.
That simply cannot happen.

He's incredibly violent.
He's unbelievably dangerous.
He's utterly remorseless.
He's a cold-blooded murderer.

KK may have wanted KB dead.
But she didn't want it enough to kill her.

PF wanted KB dead enough to kill her.

Therein lies the difference between those two.

We all despise KK, on account of she's utterly despicable.
But it's her testimony that's going to drive the nails into PF's coffin.
I want her to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth up on that stand.
Because if she does that, PF goes away forever.

JMO.

Precise logic. And if KK was to renege on the deal and say something different, she wouldn't suddenly be charged with murder: "Oops! We see now we made a mistake. Sorry! Let's fix this with the correct charges."

That's fantasy. And like you said one that would have PF walk.

I have often felt there's more rage against KK than PF for this crime. More desire to see her locked up for life than a fear that PF will get off.

In fact, I suspect there are some who would be somewhat comfortable with PF walking while KK served life.

 

[gitana1]

This is a good quote MemPat and I appreciate it.

But does it make sense for you to say I twist or turn the facts that KK laid out? Nope. Does it hurt me as a poster for you to say that to me or for another poster to say that someone who thinks differently than what has been laid out is an idiot? Yes it hurts. I don’t see it as facts. I see it as a theory backed up by a liar.

I carefully stated she was likely beaten there.
Frazee is in jail because KKL gave LE their narrative. Can they back it up? We hope so.

But the poster wasn't quoting you. And where did they call anyone an idiot?

 

[Kapua]

Precise logic. And if KK was to renege on the deal and say something different, she wouldn't suddenly be charged with murder: "Oops! We see now we made a mistake. Sorry! Let's fix this with the correct charges."

That's fantasy. And like you said one that would have PF walk.

I have often felt there's more rage against KK than PF for this crime. More desire to see her locked up for life than a fear that PF will get off.

In fact, I suspect there are some who would be somewhat comfortable with PF walking while KK served life.

I have often felt that, too, and I find it both puzzling and annoying. LE made a deal to get the first-hand evidence necessary to bring charges and make them stick in this no-body case. KK lied up to the point where she knew LE had the goods on her and she had to come clean. She has a felony charge on her record for life, whether or not she will ever do time. I've said this before: this very serious charge and the publicity from this case will follow her for the rest of her life. I personally do not consider this a "sweetie beauty of a deal"; far from it. I think of it as a life sentence of a different nature on the outside, and no picnic. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Precise logic. And if KK was to renege on the deal and say something different, she wouldn't suddenly be charged with murder: "Oops! We see now we made a mistake. Sorry! Let's fix this with the correct charges."

That's fantasy. And like you said one that would have PF walk.

I have often felt there's more rage against KK than PF for this crime. More desire to see her locked up for life than a fear that PF will get off.

In fact, I suspect there are some who would be somewhat comfortable with PF walking while KK served life.

It’s bordering on obsession, just read the comments on any news article.

This guy beat Kelsey to death, but all the focus and rage is directed towards her.

She should be hated, and in an ideal world she should have paid a steeper price, but he’s the one who is directly responsible for Kelsey’s murder.

He’s the one on trial for murder, not KK.

 

[katydid23]

It’s bordering on obsession, just read the comments on any news article.

This guy beat Kelsey to death, but all the focus and rage is directed towards her.

She should be hated, and in an ideal world she should have paid a steeper price, but he’s the one who is directly responsible for Kelsey’s murder.

He’s the one on trial for murder, not KK.

And it seems that it is women that are the most obsessed with finding her as the most guilty party.

 

[PommyMommy]

It’s bordering on obsession, just read the comments on any news article.

This guy beat Kelsey to death, but all the focus and rage is directed towards her.

She should be hated, and in an ideal world she should have paid a steeper price, but he’s the one who is directly responsible for Kelsey’s murder.

He’s the one on trial for murder, not KK.

I stay away from those comment sections. I've heard enough about KK here to last me a lifetime. Gotta keep my strength up for trial. MOO

And it seems that it is women that are the most obsessed with finding her as the most guilty party.

Same as NK. Weird. MOO​

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Yes. You know I was actually bullied as a kid. Around 5th through 8th. I had to physically fight. I was attacked. Called names. Relentlessly harassed for my attire. (We didn't have money and I was a tomboy who wore weird things like Greek fisherman caps, railroad hats and hand me down Toughskins from my brothers, so of course that couldn't be allowed to go unpunished by my peers. Lol.)

Having one's opinion challenged is debate. It's not bullying. Every opening and closing statement would be considered bullying f simply disagreeing and pointing out the flaws in a different opinion or perspective was considered bullying.

As long as we are civil with one another can't we have a discussion?

In any event, I vote with those who think the trial won't start on time. I wish it would though.

I'm confident in the strength of the state's case. No body cases are notoriously hard and the district attorney is a political position. Which means they want wins. You don't maintain the public trust without wins.

They're not bringing this case to a jury without solid evidence, IMO.

 

[gitana1]

It’s bordering on obsession, just read the comments on any news article.

This guy beat Kelsey to death, but all the focus and rage is directed towards her.

She should be hated, and in an ideal world she should have paid a steeper price, but he’s the one who is directly responsible for Kelsey’s murder.

He’s the one on trial for murder, not KK.

Yes. It's interesting. I think this may be the reason for some:

The Myth of the She Devil
"A man who kills is a murderer, but a woman guilty of violent crime becomes a proxy for all that is evil."

"We feel differently about a woman doing something consciously cruel because of our expectations of women as the nurturing sex. The adage is that women who commit crime are mad, bad or sad. The bad may be few in number, but once given the label there is no forgiving."

"In her authoritative book Women Who Kill, Ann Jones suggests that moral panics about women and crime coincide with periods when women make strides towards equality, and that such panics may be a crude and perhaps even unconscious attempt at controlling these advances."
The myth of the she-devil: why we judge female criminals more harshly

Much more at link. Can't say I agree with it all - women tend to receive lesser sentences than men for the same crimes, regardless of how society views them, for example- but it's interesting.

 

[gitana1]

I stay away from those comment sections. I've heard enough about KK here to last me a lifetime. Gotta keep my strength up for trial. MOO

Same as NK. Weird. MOO​

Yes. There are actually attempts to say she was at the home the night of the murders and helped load the body. Zero evidence of that. But poor CW was hypnotized by her or something.

 

[MemPat]

Wellllll.....If you insist.

The phrase, "He swung the bat," was first used here on 01/21/19.
Thread #41.
Post #1156.

That's all you're getting out of me.

Modesty, thy name is Knot.

 

[girlhasnoname]

KK has completely failed as a human being. mother, friend, wife, lover etc. She could have done the right thing and turned PF in to LE when he solicited her the first of three times. Most morally grounded people would have done that IMO. I believe KK was caught up in some twisted, psychologically abusive relationship with PF. We've heard from other gf's and acquaintances that he's a master manipulator, a gas-lighter, pretty much a shi**y human being towards animals and women. That speaks volumes to me.

KK appears to have lead a fairly normal, successful life (professional nurse, mother, no criminal record) before she hooked up with PF. There is no way I will ever understand how this happened, why she participated like she did, how she couldn't have done the 'right thing', but I believe we will hear much more about KK/PF's relationship during the trial.

It can never justify or excuse what she did to Kelsey and the entire Berreth family and I hope she pays for it every day for the rest of her life. But the fact remains......without KK coming clean about how and what happened, PF would more than likely still be walking around a free man with a beautiful little innocent baby daughter being formed and molded by this monster. For that reason alone, I have learned to accept the fact of her lack of punishment if it puts the MURDERER in prison and away from Baby K and the rest of vulnerable women, children and animals out there.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

KK has completely failed as a human being. mother, friend, wife, lover etc. She could have done the right thing and turned PF in to LE when he solicited her the first of three times. Most morally grounded people would have done that IMO. I believe KK was caught up in some twisted, psychologically abusive relationship with PF. We've heard from other gf's and acquaintances that he's a master manipulator, a gas-lighter, pretty much a shi**y human being towards animals and women. That speaks volumes to me.

KK appears to have lead a fairly normal, successful life (professional nurse, mother, no criminal record) before she hooked up with PF. There is no way I will ever understand how this happened, why she participated like she did, how she couldn't have done the 'right thing', but I believe we will hear much more about KK/PF's relationship during the trial.

It can never justify or excuse what she did to Kelsey and the entire Berreth family and I hope she pays for it every day for the rest of her life. But the fact remains......without KK coming clean about how and what happened, PF would more than likely still be walking around a free man with a beautiful little innocent baby daughter being formed and molded by this monster. For that reason alone, I have learned to accept the fact of her lack of punishment if it puts the MURDERER in prison and away from Baby K and the rest of vulnerable women, children and animals out there.

MOO

I don’t think anyone would argue with you there.

There’s no question that what she did was wrong on every level. Most of us would call her “evil.”

Had she not cooperated, there’s a very real chance that no one would have ever paid for this.

Emotionally, we want it all here. We want both of them to get what they deserve.

Logically though, we have to accept that only one of them stands a chance of paying the full price.

Let’s just hope that happens.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don’t think anyone would argue with you there.

There’s no question that what she did was wrong on every level. Most of us would call her “evil.”

Had she not cooperated, there’s a very real chance that no one would have ever paid for this.

Emotionally, we want it all here. We want both of them to get what they deserve.

Logically though, we have to accept that only one of them stands a chance of paying the full price.

Let’s just hope that happens.

I feel confident that DA May is going to draw the picture for jurors and this will happen MG!

 

[MassGuy]

I feel confident that DA May is going to draw the picture for jurors and this will happen MG!

Oh me too. Since the day of that preliminary hearing I’ve been convinced that this is a slam dunk of a no body murder case.

Those types of cases are notoriously difficult, but this case has far more evidence than most.

He’s going down.

 

[pcrum12]

I’m just questioning which way to go. On one hand “we” state we couldn’t convict him without her. On the other “we” state we got him with the phone tracking and video in and out of condo. Anyone want to debate that?

 

[MassGuy]

I’m just questioning which way to go. On one hand “we” state we couldn’t convict him without her. On the other “we” state we got him with the phone tracking and video in and out of condo. Anyone want to debate that?

The phone information and his lies are damning.

KK is needed to provide clarity to everything.

Where the murder occurred. How the murder occurred. Where Kelsey’s body was stored. How and where her body was burned. Those solicitation attempts. How those attempts happened. What was happening when those texts were sent. Why those texts were sent.

Besides that, she directed law enforcement to alot of evidence, and the evidence seems to corroborate all of it.

They had no idea that Kelsey was murdered, and that it happened in that house. When law enforcement returned, they found probable blood under the floorboards, on the fireplace, and god knows where else.

Without her, there wouldn’t have been murder charges in the first place.

She gave them a lot, and hopefully will put the nail in PF’s coffin at trial.

 

[MemPat]

The phone information and his lies are damning.

KK is needed to provide clarity to everything.

Where the murder occurred. How the murder occurred. Where Kelsey’s body was stored. How and where her body was burned. Those solicitation attempts. How those attempts happened. What was happening when those texts were sent. Why those texts were sent.

Besides that, she directed law enforcement to alot of evidence, and the evidence seems to corroborate all of it.

They had no idea that Kelsey was murdered, and that it happened in that house. When law enforcement returned, they found probable blood under the floorboards, on the fireplace, and god knows where else.

Without her, there wouldn’t have been murder charges in the first place.

She gave them a lot, and hopefully will put the nail in PF’s coffin at trial.

I love the word "corroborate" and rarely use it but it plays such an important role in this case.