CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #56 *ARREST*

[MsBetsy]

The defense can assert anything they want, but they won't have the facts to support their allegations.

Best way to irritate a jury is to spew out an allegation, without any support to back it up!

Who's going to testify for the defense that KK was with PF dumping the body? PF isn't going to take the stand!

Prosecution has the burden of proof here, and they will be able to present all the digital evidence when KK arrived WP, and when she departed, and what/where she was doing during those hours including Sonic, coffee, Franch, and gas stop in town -- proving the defense allegation not credible if not impossible.

Although not admissible in court - I also wouldn't be surprised if KK had to take a polygraph test before DA signed off on her deal. DA had a duty to verify KK's story -- including that she does not know where the remains are, and only that PF said river or landfill.

(There's currently a case in WA in process - Ben Eastman- 17, murdered by his childhood friend and the friends brother on first day of summer vacation. Terms of brothers guilty plea agreements required polygraph exams prior to sentencing, and to our shock and dismay - the exams resulted in 2 additional people charged. Total charged now stands at 6).

MOO

Thank you. That makes sense. I just finished my other post and then saw yours. I guess I feel a little more confident now.
It's going to be a very interesting trial, I think.

 

[Steelslady]

The defense can assert anything they want, but they won't have the facts to support their allegations.

Best way to irritate a jury is to spew out an allegation, without any support to back it up!

Who's going to testify for the defense that KK was with PF dumping the body? PF isn't going to take the stand!

Prosecution has the burden of proof here, and they will be able to present all the digital evidence when KK arrived WP, and when she departed, and what/where she was doing during those hours including Sonic, coffee, Franch, and gas stop in town -- proving the defense allegation not credible if not impossible.

Although not admissible in court - I also wouldn't be surprised if KK had to take a polygraph test before DA signed off on her deal. DA had a duty to verify KK's story -- including that she does not know where the remains are, and only that PF said river or landfill.

(There's currently a case in WA in process - Ben Eastman- 17, murdered by his childhood friend and the friends brother on first day of summer vacation. Terms of brothers guilty plea agreements required polygraph exams prior to sentencing, and to our shock and dismay - the exams resulted in 2 additional people charged. Total charged now stands at 6).

MOO

Wouldn't we all just pass out from shock if PF did take the stand! That would be interesting. I'd bet the fur would be flying, if he dared to.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Yes, but isn't the intent to cast doubt on her story, too?
I would think they will try to make her story sound unbelievable at every chance they get.
They can't prove that she was there at the time of the murder, and it would be hard to prove that Kelsey was killed at another time.
What else can they say to indicate she was more involved than she admitted, without trying to prove that she was responsible for the murder instead of him?
They said they weren't going to try to prove the alternate suspect theory, just that she was implicated in parts of the crime.
What else can they do besides point to any lies she may have told?

So if that's impossible, I can't really think of another scenario, so let's just suppose they point out something else she may have lied about, and the jury is so confused and can't determine which one could be lying about what, or they aren't convinced that she told the truth about something significant.
Would it be a mistrial and they would have to have another trial? Could PF be found not guilty?
Or does everyone think it will be a sure thing that the jury will believe her and PF will be found guilty without a doubt?
It seems like it would be a lot more complex than everyone just finding her story credible. Imo

I’m not everyone, but I think Yes.
Hell YES

 

[ilovechili]

You're welcome.

It was discussed in depth the early part of February so I'm pretty sure everyone's up on it but if you need a refresher, I'd look at the thread starting about February 5th.

The link to the documents concerning KK's case can be found here: Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - People v. Krystal Jean Kenney

The document you referred to: https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2019CR17/D-02 Discovery Demand.pdf

Hope that helps. MOO, IMO, JMO

ETA: Another thought - it might be easier to just look at the media thread instead of doing all that searching.

Posted February 5th:

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*
FEB 4, 2019

KKL - Summons to Appear https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2019CR17/Summons to Appear.pdf

KKL - Order to Proposed Felony Summons https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2019CR17/Order Kenney Proposed Felony Summons - Granted.pdf

KKL - Complaint and Information https://www.courts.state.co.us/user.../Teller/caseofinterest/2019CR17/Complaint.pdf

FEB 5, 2019

KKL - Entry of Appearance https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2019CR17/D-01 Entry of Appearance.pdf

KKL - Discovery Demand https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2019CR17/D-02 Discovery Demand.pdf

Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - People v. Krystal Jean Kenney

Here's a good article by Sam from February 6: Documents reveal Kenney seeking leverage in court, expert says

And, another from KRDO - Also February 6, updated February 8:
Idaho nurse to be charged in connection with Kelsey Berreth's disappearance

What searching? I only do that when someone asks for a link? I reference what I know they say.

I see some on here who never say something is there MOO nor give a link almost ever.

Than you for the help.

The other day, a few thought KK took a nap before the fire. It was after. I remembered that. And said it.

I guess I could have looked for a link but so many others do not, but I am always ready to reference one.

If I can do what others do, I fail to see the overboard defense of KK on here. Granted, they need her at trial, a hard situation as only she can connect the dots... If one can believe her.

The woman never came forward of her own free will or to do the right thing.

Fact, I think.

Jmvho of course.

ETA: I think I made it clear from my early posts that I was referencing a legal document from KK's attorney. I never directed my post at a single person, got responses and answered. I guess we all missed each other

 

[PommyMommy]

What searching? I only do that when someone asks for a link? I reference what I know they say.

I see some on here who never say something is there MOO nor give a link almost ever.

Than you for the help.

The other day, a few thought KK took a nap before the fire. It was after. I remembered that. And said it.

I guess I could have looked for a link but so many others do not, but I am always ready to reference one.

If I can do what others do, I fail to see the overboard defense of KK on here. Granted, they need her at trial, a hard situation as only she can connect the dots... If one can believe her.

The woman never came forward of her own free will or to do the right thing.

Fact, I think.

Jmvho of course.

ETA: I think I made it clear from my early posts that I was referencing a legal document from KK's attorney. I never directed my post at a single person, got responses and answered. I guess we all missed each other

In regard to searching, I was trying to help steer you toward the discussion about the document back in February.

I don't really understand the rest of your post - nap, links, defense of KK... I'm not aware of anyone here defending KK, let alone going overboard about it.

Are we reading the same thread, lol? MOO

Yep and nothing else to discuss other than people with the same stuff here, us all going in circles. So being those docs and new members appear (do they?) or those confused it does not hurt to reference KK's documents from her Ace attorney for those new members.

So respectfully what is the disagreement?

I'm not aware of any disagreement. I made a clarification for anyone new to the thread or anyone who might be confused is what I recall. I'm sorry if you don't understand it. MOO​

 

[katydid23]

Yeah that's what I thought, too.

I have forgotten what may have spoiled that as a plan...did KB call her mom or something like that?

I think he may have been tempted to do away with her that night. But she probably talked about Thanksgiving and missing her family etc, and he realised that they would be calling her on Thanksgiving and expecting to speak to her.
He knew it would bring instant attention to her being missing if they couldn't speak to her at all.

Better to set it up that she was upset during the Holiday and took off to cool down and think.The usual excuse we see here a lot.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

I think he may have been tempted to do away with her that night. But she probably talked about Thanksgiving and missing her family etc, and he realised that they would be calling her on Thanksgiving and expecting to speak to her.
He knew it would bring instant attention to her being missing if they couldn't speak to her at all.

Better to set it up that she was upset during there Holiday and took off to cool down and think.The usual excuse we see here a lot.

This is exactly what I think too. He needed to buy himself more time and he wouldn't have had much if KB's family didn't hear from her Thanksgiving day.

 

[katydid23]

I remember reading all of this myself. Especially Kelsey going shooting- that stood out to me, perhaps because she was a single Mom and didn't feel as safe without a weapon to protect her and her daughter. I did wonder a couple of times, if there was something she was concerned about that caused her to feel safer with the gun- perhaps visits from strangers with coffee might have raised her alarm a bit?

As to the bolded---I'd be freaked out if someone I had never laid eyes on before, came to my door with my favourite Starbucks, and handed it to me. I'd be like WTH?

 

[katydid23]

This is exactly what I think too. He needed to buy himself more time and he wouldn't have had much if KB's family didn't hear from her Thanksgiving day.

Exactly. I also wondered if she might have said that she told someone she was going to go and help him with his cattle that night. Like in passing, she mentions to him ,' my friend laughed when I told her I was going out on the range with my boyfriend tonight.' He'd have to put on the brakes and shift gears immediately.

 

[Steelslady]

What searching? I only do that when someone asks for a link? I reference what I know they say.

I see some on here who never say something is there MOO nor give a link almost ever.

Than you for the help.

The other day, a few thought KK took a nap before the fire. It was after. I remembered that. And said it.

I guess I could have looked for a link but so many others do not, but I am always ready to reference one.

If I can do what others do, I fail to see the overboard defense of KK on here. Granted, they need her at trial, a hard situation as only she can connect the dots... If one can believe her.

The woman never came forward of her own free will or to do the right thing.

Fact, I think.

Jmvho of course.

ETA: I think I made it clear from my early posts that I was referencing a legal document from KK's attorney. I never directed my post at a single person, got responses and answered. I guess we all missed each other

Hey now, Poms is just trying to help and she has had many of us backs on here since I began posting 6 years ago. She's a terrific, classy and compassionate person on here.

She's not arguing with you or challenging you, just trying to make things easier.

I've only seen a couple of people defending KK per se, but they're entitled to their opinion just like we're entitled to ours. I'll always despised KK and PF- that's one thing that ain't changing, my friend.

 

[Seattle1]

As to the bolded---I'd be freaked out if someone I had never laid eyes on before, came to my door with my favourite Starbucks, and handed it to me. I'd be like WTH?

Even worse, that wicked woman KK invoked dogs and children with the coffee. (And what stranger knows your specialty coffee drink?)......

KK allegedly knocked on KB's door saying she understood that KB helped locate her missing dog, and wanted to personally thank her. KB said it wasn't her.

KK told investigators she tried to make small talk, and suggested their daughters could have a play date!!

I'm pretty sure that coffee went straight down the drain.

 

[katydid23]

I wonder what happens if the defense claims that she knows what PF did with the body or she was with him when he disposed of the body.
They apparently are going to point the finger at her and attempt to show her involvement in "parts" of the crime. She claims to have never seen the body and he told her he disposed of it in the dump or a river or something.
What if PF claims she was with him, or helped him, indicating that she was more involved than she admitted?
I can imagine a jury might believe this.
Did she ever say exactly when he dumped the body? Was it before or after she headed back home?

Imo

All true, but would PF ever want to admit he did those things, just to get back at KK?

 

[Steelslady]

Even worse, that wicked woman KK invoked dogs and children with the coffee. (And what stranger knows your specialty coffee drink?)......

KK allegedly knocked on KB's door saying she understood that KB helped locate her missing dog, and wanted to personally thank her. KB said it wasn't her.

KK told investigators she tried to make small, and suggested their daughters could have a play date!!

I'm pretty sure that coffee went straight down the drain.

Bolded By Me- I have one phrase I'd like to use, but you'll have to fill in the blank:

No kidding! Another fine moment brought to you by........Krystal. Like, just how did the neighbor who's dog got out in the neighborhood (of course this was a stupid lie) know about Kelsey's favorite coffee and address, even? I wonder which neighbor Krystal was pretending to be friends with? What neighbor sends a friend over to the woman's house with favorite coffee?

 

[MsBetsy]

All true, but would PF ever want to admit he did those things, just to get back at KK?

Maybe he would if he knows there is no way out of it, considering all the evidence they have against him, and the only option is to show that KK is just a jaded lover who lies so much nothing she says can be credible.
Imo

 

[GordianKnot]

I think he may have been tempted to do away with her that night. But she probably talked about Thanksgiving and missing her family etc, and he realised that they would be calling her on Thanksgiving and expecting to speak to her.
He knew it would bring instant attention to her being missing if they couldn't speak to her at all.

Better to set it up that she was upset during the Holiday and took off to cool down and think.The usual excuse we see here a lot.

That's certainly a possibility.
I don't credit PF with that much reasoning capability, however.

I think PF made an impulsive decision to kill KB that day before T-Giving and summoned her out to the ranch that night on a pretense.

It was only after he saw her pulling up in her vehicle(!) that it occurred to him that he didn't have any way to get her vehicle(!) far enough away from the franch afterward to prevent the finger of suspicion from immediately falling upon him.

I think once PF actually SAW the vehicle (!) pulling up, he then probably kept KB there for hours while he furiously tried to come up with a "solution" to the riddle of what to do with KB's car.

Unsurprisingly, he drew a blank.

PF's not exactly what you'd call a master planner.
His executive functioning skills are virtually nonexistent.
Two-step processes are a bridge too far for him.
"Poison her Starbucks."
"Beat her with a baseball bat."

He doesn't think ahead about cell phones traveling together.
He doesn't think ahead about surveillance cameras.
He doesn't think ahead, PERIOD.

PF is impulse driven.
He's a walking Id.

I'm 100% convinced he didn't "think" ahead about her vehicle.
He didn't give that a single "thought" until she pulled up at the franch that night.
Try as he did to to "think" with all his might, he couldn't work out what to do about that.
So, he watched her drive away at 4 am or whatever hour he kept her there until and began crafting Plan B.

Plan B,as we all know, turned out to be PF. In the townhome. With a baseball bat.

JMO.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, but isn't the intent to cast doubt on her story, too?
I would think they will try to make her story sound unbelievable at every chance they get.
They can't prove that she was there at the time of the murder, and it would be hard to prove that Kelsey was killed at another time.
What else can they say to indicate she was more involved than she admitted, without trying to prove that she was responsible for the murder instead of him?
They said they weren't going to try to prove the alternate suspect theory, just that she was implicated in parts of the crime.
What else can they do besides point to any lies she may have told?

So if that's impossible, I can't really think of another scenario, so let's just suppose they point out something else she may have lied about, and the jury is so confused and can't determine which one could be lying about what, or they aren't convinced that she told the truth about something significant.
Would it be a mistrial and they would have to have another trial? Could PF be found not guilty?
Or does everyone think it will be a sure thing that the jury will believe her and PF will be found guilty without a doubt?
It seems like it would be a lot more complex than everyone just finding her story credible. Imo

Good points. But even if the jury does not find her credible, there is other evidence that points to him. She is not the only damning evidence in this case.

There is still evidence of a crime scene inside her condo. And video evidence showing the tight timeline, of him coming and going. And of KB entering her condo and never walking out alive.

And the baby, being in her custody, then suddenly Daddy has her, forever afterwards.

And his lies about speaking to her, about her trip to see Grandma. And the fake texts. And her phone leaving the condo with him.

And the videos of the large tote in the back of his truck, leaving the condo, etc.

So even if they want to throw out all not her testimony, he still has a lot of difficult explaining to do. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

It was dated December 12th. MOO

View attachment 208656

Image source: Search warrants show text conversations between Kelsey Berreth and Patrick Frazee, what evidence was gathered from his home

Thanks Pommy for posting that image.

All this time I was interpreting the "custody document" found inside the house as legal paperwork PF filled out to be filed with the state to initiate a legal proceeding to be formally awarded custody of his daughter. I now see it was his makeshift authorization of care for baby K.

I recall we talked about his emergency permission authorizing care by others he named to the list, and that it may not have been enforceable without KB's signature-- as she had at least 50% custodial rights of her daughter if not more. (I don't believe they had anything legal between them).

And KB was not legally dead when he wrote that but missing for a couple weeks.

Of course PF knew she was dead because he swung the bat and shattered her skull, allegedly.

 

[MsBetsy]

Bolded By Me- I have one phrase I'd like to use, but you'll have to fill in the blank:

No kidding! Another fine moment brought to you by........Krystal. Like, just how did the neighbor who's dog got out in the neighborhood (of course this was a stupid lie) know about Kelsey's favorite coffee and address, even? I wonder which neighbor Krystal was pretending to be friends with? What neighbor sends a friend over to the woman's house with favorite coffee?

Yeah, I would think she would have been suspicious about that.
Who else would know what her favorite coffee was? PF is the only person I can think of.
Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Good points. But even if the jury does not find her credible, there is other evidence that points to him. She is not the only damning evidence in this case.

There is still evidence of a crime scene inside her condo. And video evidence showing the tight timeline, of him coming and going. And of KB entering her condo and never walking out alive.

And the baby, being in her custody, then suddenly Daddy has her, forever afterwards.

And his lies about speaking to her, about her trip to see Grandma. And the fake texts. And her phone leaving the condo with him.

And the videos of the large tote in the back of his truck, leaving the condo, etc.

So even if they want to throw out all not her testimony, he still has a lot of difficult explaining to do. JMO

Yes, there is plenty of evidence that points to PF as the murderer.
But I think the prosecution is also depending on their star witness and her testimony, especially since they do not have a body.
I can imagine the defense is going to question her aggressively, and challenge her every word.

I'm still wondering what happens if they find that she is lying about something significant, (even though it may be impossible) and enough if the jury does not believe her, what happens next?

Of course I'm hoping the jury will believe her and consider all the evidence carefully, but in the event that they can't reach a decision or KK doesn't meet the terms of the plea deal, then what happens?

 

[katydid23]

Maybe he would if he knows there is no way out of it, considering all the evidence they have against him, and the only option is to show that KK is just a jaded lover who lies so much nothing she says can be credible.
Imo

But what good does it do to prove she is a liar, if he then admits he killed her and dumped her body?