CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #56 *ARREST*

[katydid23]

Since the deal, I don't think there have been any proven lies by KK regarding the substantive facts/evidence related to the case.

If there were, her sweetie beauty of a deal would have been declared null and void.

Where I think it can safely be argued KK has been less than truthful, which is to say, completely disingenuous, is in matters where she ascribes motives to her own actions/inactions in an attempt to make herself sound like less of a completely vile, loathsome snake.

But what KK's internal processes are, e.g., her thoughts, feelings, etc. can't be proven or disproven, because they're intangibles.

Hopefully, DA May won't even give her the opportunity to talk about what she was thinking and feeling, because really, who cares?

JMO.

YES, I agree that her hedging, and saying a lot of bologna, about being scared so she had to go clean up, or saying she thought he was joking about asking her to kill someone, can't be proven either way.

 

[Gigi3]

YES, I agree that her hedging, and saying a lot of bologna, about being scared so she had to go clean up, or saying she thought he was joking about asking her to kill someone, can't be proven either way.

It will be entertaining to watch her squirm that’s for sure! KK did everything in her power to minimize her involvement, but make no mistake she’s in it up to her eyeballs.
I think a jury will be just as disgusted as we all are by her actions, but at the end of the day, liar or not, PF is the murderer and evidence will show that. MOO!

 

[Steelslady]

Google Chris Watts and see his latest "confession" letter.

He makes me so sick.

I've said it quite a few times on here- instead of three hots and a cot, do to these *bleepers* what they did to their victims. The heck with it not being humane! Tell me why killers like Chris Watts deserve humanity? Where was his humanity as he attempted to kill his daughters not once, but twice?!?!?!?!

 

[Steelslady]

If PF starts trying to correct any lies or half truths KK tells during testimony, wouldn’t he be implicating himself in the process? Serious question.

That would be awesome.

 

[k-mac]

What has KK out and out lied about, that is provable?

Sincere question.

I know that she initially lied to the FBI, when they first came calling. But I think that is understandable. Many people react by denying everything at first.

But I mean once she began talking, and made that Plea Deal, what did she say that is a provable out and out lie?

I am not saying there isn't anything. I am just asking what others think might fit into that category.

katy I think they are gunna get her on her commitment to the end goal.
her desire to see Kelsey dead.
and her involvement in the attempts.

'you got a mess to clean up". tells me everything about this 50/50 desired/shared goal.

moo

 

[MassGuy]

katy I think they are gunna get her on her commitment to the end goal.
her desire to see Kelsey dead.
and her involvement in the attempts.

'you got a mess to clean up". tells me everything about this 50/50 desired/shared goal.

moo

But if the defense ever discusses that statement, they are admitting it occurred.

If they admit it occurred, then PF was involved.

If PF was involved, he’s guilty as charged.

ETA: I read your post wrong.

I agree with your assessment of that statement in regards to what it means. It’s very telling.

All the prosecution has to do is show she wasn’t there, and if she wasn’t there, she can’t be the killer.

The defense has to somehow put her there.

 

[MassGuy]

Can you even imagine the cross by PF's defense?

Does it make me a horrible person that I take comfort in her uncomfortableness?

If that makes you a horrible person, that makes all of us horrible people.

I want a balance between the jury believing her account in regards to the material facts, and her getting eviscerated on cross.

I want her to hang her head in embarrassment and shame for the rest of her life. I gotta be honest though, I don’t think that’s going to happen.

She couldn’t have done what she did in the first place, if she was a person with a conscience.

 

[Artis]

But if the defense ever discusses that statement, they are admitting it occurred.

If they admit it occurred, then PF was involved.

If PF was involved, he’s guilty as charged.

ETA: I read your post wrong.

I agree with your assessment of that statement in regards to what it means. It’s very telling.

All the prosecution has to do is show she wasn’t there, and if she wasn’t there, she can’t be the killer.

The defense has to somehow put her there.

I don't recall ever seeing KK's phone records leading up to Thanksgiving. Were they ever released? From what I last knew, she seemed to have an alibi with being in Idaho. I'd be thrilled if there was something we didn't know that would put her there, at the scene and day of the murder and they both went down for life. On the remote chance that the defense could put her there, I guess that would blow her plea deal and then she would then have to be charged, right?

 

[MassGuy]

I don't recall ever seeing KK's phone records leading up to Thanksgiving. Were they ever released? From what I last knew, she seemed to have an alibi with being in Idaho. I'd be thrilled if there was something we didn't know that would put her there, at the scene and day of the murder and they both went down for life. On the remote chance that the defense could put her there, I guess that would blow her plea deal and then she would then have to be charged, right?

We haven’t seen anything, as the preliminary hearing was about the evidence against PF.

She seems to have a rock solid alibi, and it would have been thoroughly vetted. This will come up at trial, as the prosecution will have to show that PF was the murderer, and KK’s account is accurate.

If they had any evidence at all that she was in Colorado, that deal would not have been made. After it was made, it almost certainly would have been torn up.

It’s never been a secret that the defense would have to go after KK, so the prosecution will be well prepared.

Anyone hoping that KK is going to do something that costs herself the deal (tell a big provable lie), is going to find themselves very disappointed.

That’s exceedingly rare, and happens mostly on tv.

 

[pcrum12]

Any theory on shifting the date of death?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

LE has cell phone records to support the phone conversations. I would bet money they also have the cell phone locations/ tower hits when the calls were made.

• Nov. 22, 2018 - KK spoke with PF at 4:30 p.m. PF texted KK asking for her to call him. PF eventually called KK, saying, she had to get to CO because she had a mess to clean up. KK interpreted that as KB was dead. Cell phone records support this cell phone conversation.

 

[katydid23]

Any theory on shifting the date of death?

I am not sure what the question is. Do you mean theories on how the defense is going to try to shift the date of the death?
I am not sure they want to admit there was a death.

 

[pcrum12]

LE has cell phone records to support the phone conversations. I would bet money they also have the cell phone locations/ tower hits when the calls were made.

• Nov. 22, 2018 - KK spoke with PF at 4:30 p.m. PF texted KK asking for her to call him. PF eventually called KK, saying, she had to get to CO because she had a mess to clean up. KK interpreted that as KB was dead. Cell phone records support this cell phone conversation.

Cell phone records support the call but not the content. Playing devils advocate here.

 

[pcrum12]

I am not sure what the question is. Do you mean theories on how the defense is going to try to shift the date of the death?
I am not sure they want to admit there was a death.

Correct. No body no death. How can they and still hold to that

 

[MassGuy]

Cell phone records support the call but not the content. Playing devils advocate here.

This is how it’s going to work.

KK claims a call was made to her. She also makes specific claims about the content of that call.

Phone records show that a call was made, and KK began and completed steps to actually respond to the alleged content of the call.

“You have a mess to clean up,” followed by KK borrowing a car, and driving to Colorado.

Evidence and logic.

 

[?mysterian?]

This is how it’s going to work.

KK claims a call was made to her. She also makes specific claims about the content of that call.

Phone records show that a call was made, and KK began and completed steps to actually respond to the alleged content of the call.

“You have a mess to clean up,” followed by KK borrowing a car, and driving to Colorado.

Evidence and logic.

Exactly. Why else would PF activate "the cleaning crew" from such a long distance away?

ETA: He did they best he could with baby wipes, or some such, but the mess was just too big for him to handle by himself. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Any theory on shifting the date of death?

No. I can’t make it work, and I’m hoping someone else can.

Even if you move the date to the 24th, you encounter a host of other problems that you have to deal with.

It doesn’t take away the fact that PF returned to that house, and left with Kelsey’s phone.

Saying “KK did it,” or implying as much, doesn’t overcome the obstacles in its path.

 

[?mysterian?]

Correct. No body no death. How can they and still hold to that

Ok, then where is KB and what happened in the condo to cause all that blood to be there?

 

[katydid23]

Cell phone records support the call but not the content. Playing devils advocate here.

True. But it doesn't really matter because there is other very damning evidence against PF, that cannot be denied, no matter what the content of his calls to KK were.

The video of him leaving Walmart and then the neighbour's witness, seeing him in front of KB's condo minutes later. And that is the very last reports of anyone seeing or speaking to KB, ever again.

She goes radio silent from that time forward. No more evidence of her being alive from that time on. No phone calls, or visits or banking or emails etc. Over and done, around the same time PF knocks on her door.

So it doesn't really matter what he did or didn't say to KK on the phone. She says he asked her to come clean up the mess. He will likely deny it. But I am not sure it will matter.

The problem for him is that he has been caught in some major lies, about his speaking to KB the weekend after she dropped out of sight, and his saying she was on a road trip to her grandmother's.

Obvious lies. So his credibility will be up against KK's credibility. And as shady as she is, I think she will win that battle. Because there is no credible excuse he can give for being the last one to see her before she went missing. JMO

 

[Dave F.]

True. But it doesn't really matter because there is other very damning evidence against PF, that cannot be denied, no matter what the content of his calls to KK were.

The video of him leaving Walmart and then the neighbour's witness, seeing him in front of KB's condo minutes later. And that is the very last reports of anyone seeing or speaking to KB, ever again.

She goes radio silent from that time forward. No more evidence of her being alive from that time on. No phone calls, or visits or banking or emails etc. Over and done, around the same time PF knocks on her door.

So it doesn't really matter what he did or didn't say to KK on the phone. She says he asked her to come clean up the mess. He will likely deny it. But I am not sure it will matter.

The problem for him is that he has been caught in some major lies, about his speaking to KB the weekend after she dropped out of sight, and his saying she was on a road trip to her grandmother's.

Obvious lies. So his credibility will be up against KK's credibility. And as shady as she is, I think she will win that battle. Because there is no credible excuse he can give for being the last one to see her before she went missing. JMO

That is a great summation, but there is one little detail:
The phone call you refer to at 4:43 pm on 11/22/2018 did not go through, despite PF hanging on for 141 seconds of monotonous ring. Again at 4:51 pm on 11/22/2018 PF attempted to call again, and listened to ring for 251 seconds. Was it some sort of signal to tip her to call his burner phone on her burner phone? Was it her burner phone that she gave the number to KB, and then destroyed the phone; or was it her burner phone that she dumped in Breckenridge the evening of 11/25/2019; or perhaps was it the burner phone that she burned in her yard in Idaho with KB’s, and disposed of the melted remains in the hospital crematorium? Just asking.
The prosecution and KK need to be well prepared, because there will be a quiz IMO

Search Warrant 18-120, Affidavit A, Page 14, second paragraph below chart, reads:
“Due to the timing of the search warrants issued, only a portion of RTT records sere captured. RTT data is only retained for eight days for most of the connections on the Verizon network. For up to thirty days, only failed sessions or dropped attempts are recorded by the network and it is not a complete view of all of the phone’s activity. In this instance, all of the RTT data shown from 11/22/2018 through 11/25/2018 at approximately 3:30 pm local time for Kelsey’s phone reflects these failed attempts. All of the RTT data for Patrick’s phone through 11/25/2018 would reflect the failed attempts. One example of a failed attempt would be a phone trying to make or receive a call with poor cellular network coverage.”
Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee