Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[flourish]

A chokehold from behind would render someone unconscious in 10-15 seconds.
He could have then held it until she was dead. I think this makes sense as the method in his wife’s murder, because it would explain the lack of injuries on C.W.

I've wondered about him hugging his arm in his interview and guessed this was why--unconscious guarding of the murder weapon?

 

[Johnny1181]

Yes, that was sort of my point in asking. Coonrod was dispatched at 1:40 pm and called CW for the outside garage door key code. I estimate that CW arrived home sometime around 2:00 pm, and we know he was at the disposal site that morning, but we have no idea how long he was there. We know he made at least two trips up and down those stairs and had to remove bolts, etc. We know he had to dig a grave (unless it was done prior) and a local just told us earlier today how long it took to dig a smaller hole in that soil. I guess it could also depend on how someone defines it quick. IMO, it wasn't.

The affidavit states that the monster (don't really want to use even his initials) said that the garage code was broken but that he was 5 mins away. (Paraphrasing) I will be curious to see if that garage keypad works and if he was buying time. Imo

 

[MassGuy]

I've wondered about him hugging his arm in his interview and guessed this was why--unconscious guarding of the murder weapon?

I’m not sure. It’s possible. It could have also simply been “pacifying behavior” (an effort to calm himself).

 

[Charlot123]

So here's the thing for me- I think there are some of us who aren't very caught on the crude oil aspect of this. I'll speak for myself on why: I think once it's gotten to the point of strangled and murdered children and then a cover-up, the placing of the bodies in oil, or water, or under mud and dirt and around bugs really doesn't matter much to me. I see it all as terrible. Anything short of a casket or appropriate cremation or buried gently amongst flowers is disrespectful IMO. Yes, if he fed them to animals or abused the bodies I'd be more appalled, but the oil tanks are not something that makes CW seem suddenly more barbaric than someone already would be for murdering their own child. I see it more as really odd vs. more barbaric than in the ground or a lake. Also, if one considers his version of events, there is a whole host of explanations he may give as to his choice of body placement. We just don't know at this time.

No, it does not matter. But to get them from the oil, you have to pump it out. A lot of work. The more money and efforts it takes to find the bodies, the more angry people doing the job and living around get.

 

[MerryB]

well, i have several and there all mad as each other. there is the one where neither of them murdered anyone

Hmmm...would love to hear!

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Oh, @LibraStarr, no words. Really, no words. Hugs to you. Stay strong. Try to block out the ones who don’t believe you. You were brave to leave!! Your story is such an amazing example of why many do not leave. They’re threatened with worse than they’ve already dealt with. It’s incredibly sad. It’s not easy to leave for sure. Definitely surround yourself with any help you can get, whether it’s supportive friends, police protection, therapy, etc. Hugs to you.

 

[Charlot123]

I've also wondered if AP was terminated. IMO, CW not only disrespected his marriage by having an affair, he also disrespected his employer.

Deleted

 

[Allabouttrial]

Hmmm...would love to hear!

Me too!

 

[MrsWatson]

I have debated on whether or not I should post here but this post shook me to my core. This is my life, right now. I told my husband (together almost 12 years) to leave three weeks ago because of this case. He left, but he hasn't stopped the verbal and emotional abuse.

For a long time I had no idea what was happening to me. I couldn't figure out what I was doing to cause this hatred of his. I didn't know it was abuse. He was so adept at making me feel weak and wrong and I believed it. Sometimes I still wonder if I somehow contributed to his outbursts. No one else saw what was happening, these scars can be invisible. He could be screaming and calling me every name in the book but when his friend showed up, he changed into this charming, happy go lucky person. I kept trying to change myself, trying to make him understand or realize that I was a good person, a good wife. When I started to "see" what was happening, I tried to set boundaries. I tried to defend myself and when I did, he told me I was the abusive one. Looking in from the outside, one might have said that I was the crazy one. I was only trying to take my life back. I was told two weeks ago that I do have PTSD from his abuse, one can only take so much before they crack. For 11 years, he was never physical with me but he was emotionally and verbally abusive. When I tried to set my boundaries earlier this year, his abuse escalated and he turned to physical violence. In July he tried to strangle me. I honestly don't know why he didn't kill me that night. I was too scared to leave, I still thought it was my fault. He threatened me because I tried to leave about a week after this tragedy happened. I knew I had to do something. I contacted a shelter and I am getting help. I am not looking for sympathy here, just giving perspective from some one living with abuse right now.

My point is that NO ONE knows what is really going on. In fact, he has friends and family that are telling me that it is just a rough patch and I need to work it out with him. His sister in law is telling people that there is no way he is a "psychopath" and that I am the one with problems. When I finally broke down and told my mom, she was in disbelief. She said there were no signs and she had no idea. No one did.

We really don't know what was going on behind closed doors, no matter how close we think we are. No amount of pictures or videos will tell us what was happening when no one else was around.

You are an inspiration. All best wishes to you. xo

 

[MJPeony]

Yeah I don't find the disposal of the bodies the most telling aspect of the case.

But his porch interviews, where he looks week rested and happy -smiling, no signs he had been up all night or crying- well groomed, clean, neat clothes, (so he was able to take a shower, carefully shave and put on clean clothes), no bags under his eyes, no red eyes, no shaking, frowning, grimacing, no crying during the three interviews, laughs a bit, grins, shows off his shirt when asked about it - that's the stuff that gets me.

Because he did all that about 24 hours after he supposedly saw his wife murder his kids. He looked like that and acted like that when he knew his children were dead and knew where their bodies were.

That coupled with his improbable behavior in actively working to conceal the murders from the get go and for at least 36 hours after, and no efforts to save his kids, call 911, try to get them to breathe, not one sound of screaming or crying or wailing in house (that's one helluva silent Greek tragedy that happened in his house), that his super close neighbors could hear, that's all the stuff that much more stunning to me and powerful to me than where he disposed of their bodies or how.

I agree his behavior in the interviews is likely going to come back to bite him. Even if one were to believe his version of events it’s hard to understand how his despair over the deaths of his kids didn’t utterly visibly crush him those 36 hours afterwards. Perhaps he was still in panic coverup mode and was still disassociating as best he could, perhaps he is nothing but a cold arrogant man only trying to cover his arse. It’s so hard to imagine what might have been going on inside his mind.

As for the trying to save the girls/getting them to breathe- I ask this genuinely only bc I’m trying like the rest of us to sort out the facts- has that been confirmed? Has he denied trying to give them CPR, etc? I know he claimed he saw through the monitor SW “actively strangling” Celeste, and it certainly stands to reason that if a parent saw this they would go over and try to save the child instead of strangling the spouse, but has he denied trying to save them? I realize this may sound preposterous to ask, but again- I’m trying to figure out what’s been confirmed as to his story. At the end of the day, his defense team is going to attempt to paint a picture of what happened in the house that night and the picture they will try to paint is that CW cared about the kids. I do think it’s reasonable they will claim he did try to resuscitate them, unless of course we already know he didn’t. There sure is a lot they haven’t disclosed about what he says happened.

ETA: we do know he didn’t call 911- that’s certainly a fact. Calling 911 would mean the entire tragedy would be out in the open. So we can conclude that either way (CW or SW killing the children) he did not want anyone to know what happened.

 

[PommyMommy]

Is someone who has had this kind of degenerative disc situation and then surgery, capable of strangling two children to death?

I'm sorry, I'm not at all familiar with the condition or the surgery.

Thanks! I think I meant how quickly he got them out the house, after the murders. his mind must have been working at lightening speed to make all those decisions.

I apologize if I misunderstood your post. Since CW told a couple of different stories (4 am / 5 am), it's hard to know how much time he had to remove the bodies from the home. Considering the condition in which he left the house, I do believe that was his sole focus after murdering all of them.

 

[Johnny1181]

I raised 3 step children from very young ages through college, military, and marriage. We had agreements with each that if they were not going to be where they said they were going to be, they would tell us. We explained always that otherwise we would not know if something was wrong.

One day our youngest, she was about 8, didn't come home from school. She had always followed the agreement so we went into panic mode. Called the police immediately and all the things that a normal parent does. Turns out she had stopped at a friend's house and lost track of time. Like kids do.

My point is that during those hours there IS NO way that I could have stood on the porch and given the interview that monster gave in the first hours.... let alone after hours and hours of her being gone. Let alone let someone focus on my shirt. We were beside ourselves... just in that small period of time. He is a monster.

Moo.moo.moo

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Try this. Maybe the TinyURL will work. CW appears at about the 6:00 mark.
Shanann Watts

To me, CW looks like a stooge in this video. If I didn't hate him so much, I would feel embarrassed for him.

 

[Best of What's Around]

First Time Poster...been reading the threads the last several days. I have seen most of the FB videos and even read the Kindle book (have Kindle Unlimited...so it was free). I find this case fascinating mostly because of the wealth of SM information. It truly does appear to me that both parents loved those children. The time and patience CW exhibits with them is what I find most fascinating...because in my (non-professional) experience, sociopaths and narcissists do not have much patience for significant patient playtime with children. Granted, we are only seeing "on" time. There is a definite lack of any fear/concern/worry on the part of all parties (CW, SW, children) in every video of upsetting him. Nor is that present in any VI opinion. It is noteworthy to me. I was under the impression that a narc/sociopath goes through the motions, plays a part, but those closest to them (living with them) walk on eggshells. Now, I know family annihilators, from the studies mentioned by others here, tend to be seen as good parents...but generally, having no ability to empathize with others gives you a limited ability to do more than play act for short periods of time. So are they usually NOT narcissists nor sociopaths? Curious. Certainly, the act of strangling shows a lack of empathy. I will be very curious to see whether the children were heavily medicated first. Another topic that has me curious today is his decision to greatly narrow his window of events...by selecting 4 am as a time of waking up and having the "emotional conversation" - followed by 3 strangling deaths (which take 5 minutes each) - claiming he was in a rage for hers, but somehow then calms down enough to decide to cover up the entire evening by taking the bodies away by 5:15 am. Not to mention being able to work and tell tales within hours after that calmly. Of course, I do not believe his version of events. I do not have a hard time believing someone could murder their spouse just after the spouse murdered their beloved children. But immediately covering it all up, and calmly insisting to know nothing, keeping up with grooming habits/eating normally/etc makes it just plain unbelievable. It strains all credulity on its face, IMO. While I did not find him to be happy in his media interviews on Wednesday, I did see him very scared and constantly repeating his talking points. The one moment that really gets me is when he says in one that "this has to stop - somebody has to come forward." Wow.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree his behavior in the interviews is likely going to come back to bite him. Even if one were to believe his version of events it’s hard to understand how his despair over the deaths of his kids didn’t utterly visibly crush him those 36 hours afterwards. Perhaps he was still in panic coverup mode and was still disassociating as best he could, perhaps he is nothing but a cold arrogant man only trying to cover his arse. It’s so hard to imagine what might have been going on inside his mind.

As for the trying to save the girls/getting them to breathe- I ask this genuinely only bc I’m trying like the rest of us to sort out the facts- has that been confirmed? Has he denied trying to give them CPR, etc? I know he claimed he saw through the monitor SW “actively strangling” Celeste, and it certainly stands to reason that if a parent saw this they would go over and try to save the child instead of strangling the spouse, but has he denied trying to save them? I realize this may sound preposterous to ask, but again- I’m trying to figure out what’s been confirmed as to his story. At the end of the day, his defense team is going to attempt to paint a picture of what happened in the house that night and the picture they will try to paint is that CW cared about the kids. I do think it’s reasonable they will claim he did try to resuscitate them, unless of course we already know he didn’t. There sure is a lot they haven’t disclosed about what he says happened.

As for if he claimed to have performed CPR, we have heard nothing in regards to this. It’s possible that he claimed he did, it’s also possible he didn’t mention it.

I also agree that in order to sell their story, the defense will claim that he did try and save their lives. The truth here, may prove impossible to determine.

Common sense tells most of us that he didn’t perform CPR, because it was in fact he, who killed them all.

 

[PommyMommy]

The affidavit states that the monster (don't really want to use even his initials) said that the garage code was broken but that he was 5 mins away. (Paraphrasing) I will be curious to see if that garage keypad works and if he was buying time. Imo

Yes, and NUA spoke to him about noon or 12:10 pm, IIRC. He told her SW was on a playdate, and that they were going to separate. He didn't come home until after she called LE and Officer Coonrod arrived and called him asking for the code. I have a bet with another member here whether the key pad was actually working or not.

 

[Allabouttrial]

First Time Poster...been reading the threads the last several days. I have seen most of the FB videos and even read the Kindle book (have Kindle Unlimited...so it was free). I find this case fascinating mostly because of the wealth of SM information. It truly does appear to me that both parents loved those children. The time and patience CW exhibits with them is what I find most fascinating...because in my (non-professional) experience, sociopaths and narcissists do not have much patience for significant patient playtime with children. Granted, we are only seeing "on" time. There is a definite lack of any fear/concern/worry on the part of all parties (CW, SW, children) in every video of upsetting him. Nor is that present in any VI opinion. It is noteworthy to me. I was under the impression that a narc/sociopath goes through the motions, plays a part, but those closest to them (living with them) walk on eggshells. Now, I know family annihilators, from the studies mentioned by others here, tend to be seen as good parents...but generally, having no ability to empathize with others gives you a limited ability to do more than play act for short periods of time. So are they usually NOT narcissists nor sociopaths? Curious. Certainly, the act of strangling shows a lack of empathy. I will be very curious to see whether the children were heavily medicated first. Another topic that has me curious today is his decision to greatly narrow his window of events...by selecting 4 am as a time of waking up and having the "emotional conversation" - followed by 3 strangling deaths (which take 5 minutes each) - claiming he was in a rage for hers, but somehow then calms down enough to decide to cover up the entire evening by taking the bodies away by 5:15 am. Not to mention being able to work and tell tales within hours after that calmly. Of course, I do not believe his version of events. I do not have a hard time believing someone could murder their spouse just after the spouse murdered their beloved children. But immediately covering it all up, and calmly insisting to know nothing, keeping up with grooming habits/eating normally/etc makes it just plain unbelievable. It strains all credulity on its face, IMO. While I did not find him to be happy in his media interviews on Wednesday, I did see him very scared and constantly repeating his talking points. The one moment that really gets me is when he says in one that "this has to stop - somebody has to come forward." Wow.

Welcome and great first post!

 

[nwmouse]

First Time Poster...been reading the threads the last several days. I have seen most of the FB videos and even read the Kindle book (have Kindle Unlimited...so it was free). I find this case fascinating mostly because of the wealth of SM information. It truly does appear to me that both parents loved those children. The time and patience CW exhibits with them is what I find most fascinating...because in my (non-professional) experience, sociopaths and narcissists do not have much patience for significant patient playtime with children. Granted, we are only seeing "on" time. There is a definite lack of any fear/concern/worry on the part of all parties (CW, SW, children) in every video of upsetting him. Nor is that present in any VI opinion. It is noteworthy to me. I was under the impression that a narc/sociopath goes through the motions, plays a part, but those closest to them (living with them) walk on eggshells. Now, I know family annihilators, from the studies mentioned by others here, tend to be seen as good parents...but generally, having no ability to empathize with others gives you a limited ability to do more than play act for short periods of time. So are they usually NOT narcissists nor sociopaths? Curious. Certainly, the act of strangling shows a lack of empathy. I will be very curious to see whether the children were heavily medicated first. Another topic that has me curious today is his decision to greatly narrow his window of events...by selecting 4 am as a time of waking up and having the "emotional conversation" - followed by 3 strangling deaths (which take 5 minutes each) - claiming he was in a rage for hers, but somehow then calms down enough to decide to cover up the entire evening by taking the bodies away by 5:15 am. Not to mention being able to work and tell tales within hours after that calmly. Of course, I do not believe his version of events. I do not have a hard time believing someone could murder their spouse just after the spouse murdered their beloved children. But immediately covering it all up, and calmly insisting to know nothing, keeping up with grooming habits/eating normally/etc makes it just plain unbelievable. It strains all credulity on its face, IMO. While I did not find him to be happy in his media interviews on Wednesday, I did see him very scared and constantly repeating his talking points. The one moment that really gets me is when he says in one that "this has to stop - somebody has to come forward." Wow.

Thanks for such an insightful post and welcome to WS!

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Yes, and NUA spoke to him about noon or 12:10 pm, IIRC. He told her SW was on a playdate, and that they were going to separate. He didn't come home until after she called LE and Officer Coonrod called for the code. I have a bet with another member here whether the key pad was actually working or not.

PommyMommy, I wasn't aware the CW told NU on the phone that day that they were going to separate. That is the first time I heard this??

 

[Charlot123]

I think she was the first one to be killed. Logic - he planned to do it for a while, and was just waiting for a good moment. But if he failed to kill her that night, absence of girls would be hard to explain to her. So SW had to go first. The delayed flight might have been a bonus, as she was tired and let her guards down. I think that he either killed her close to the purse - if caressing her neck was his habit, she was caught unaware, or upstairs.

The kids were killed when sleeping. He had already passed that line. It was easier. The dog howled when one of them was killed.

Whether the AP heard something, like complaints, or “sometimes I hope something happens to her”, or something else, I don’t know. I read that often the perps say something like, “how I wish something happened, and we”, but never disclose the whole plot. Online I saw the screenshot with the AP’s name but it might be less relevant as if not one, there might have been another. The problem is in CW.

He had the night to clean. But there still might have been some smell. In the morning, he got rid of the bodies.