Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #27

[JerseyWasHome2]

We seem to be getting more info from diff't sources about CW not doing well in jail. Given the comparisons to other family annihilators and such, does this match their profiles? Or have most of them been stiff and stoic while incarcerated? Just curious. Everyone is different. I don't believe any of us ever 100% match a certain profile or DSM-5 Psych disorders.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I wonder if LE has looked at this. Interesting point @MassGuy

I wear my Apple Watch all day and usually my battery is dead by the time I go to bed so I’ll put it on the charger. I do have the pillow sleep app and if I can remember to charge my battery before I go to bed I’ll wear it while I’m sleeping. Sometimes I’ll put it in airplane mode while sleeping to save some juice.

 

[borndem]

duplicate

 

[nwmouse]

We seem to be getting more info from diff't sources about CW not doing well in jail. Given the comparisons to other family annihilators and such, does this match their profiles? Or have most of them been stiff and stoic while incarcerated? Just curious. Everyone is different. I don't believe any of us ever 100% match a certain profile or DSM-5 Psych disorders.

I think that any person in his situation would be scared and stressed being in jail, even Jeffrey Dahmer. I don't believe CW is a fully-fledged psychopath, though - I think he was selfish, desperate, angry because he felt inferior to SW, and he wanted to live a life of freedom with various AP's without having to pay alimony/child support. Yeah, and I'll add I think he's STUPID because these days how many men get away with murdering their wives and kids? Even DREW PETERSON who was a cop and knew methods of criminal investigation got caught. We do know that CW cared about what others thought of him and perhaps his biggest depression is that people can finally see his true colors that he had hidden for so long.

 

[MassGuy]

Ballpark scenario for my accomplice theory:

First: the amount of activity/physical exertion to commit the crimes, remove the bodies, drive to the site, disposed of them and the back to business (creepy) in correlation with the timing to accomplish all that. It doesn't add up, at least for me.

Second: It might be nothing, but on the porch interview CW said: this has to stop/this has to end.
It's a weird expression regarding the circumstances. I think it was a cryptic message/plea to the accomplice, as in "let's cave in, I cant handle it anymore".
Why on a news interview? Because he knows all his SM/phone calls/texts/message are been monitored; maybe that's why.

Third: Different disposals location: shallow grave, tank 1, tank 2.
The shallow grave? huh, I think it was dig up by a woman; that's why it's shallow; or the accomplice was racing to do it.
Different tanks for the disposal of the babies: CW dumping one on tank 1 and Accomplice dumping another on tank 2; simultaneously.

Fourth: the ONLY genuine gesture indicating truthful from CW, was when they were reading him the charges and he was nodding : no, no."
as in no, it didn't happened that way.

My final thought: let's see, a barefoot print on a bag on a oil field (which has been identified as part of the crime scene because that's where the bodies were located.
If a man is performing all of the above, is it likely he took the time to remove his shoes?
or is it more likely for a woman to remove shoes/heels/flats, to dig up a grave and racing up a ladder?

Sounds crazy? Indeed! but this case has been senseless since day one. Feel free to scroll/roll
All my speculation and theory. JMO MOO MOO


… and back to my rabbit hole...

Personally, I absolutely believe that he committed this crime alone.

All the steps that he allegedly took, could have been committed by CW within the established time frame.

It doesn’t take two people to dig a shallow grave, and I wouldn’t have expected a sheet and bag to be left at the scene. It seems too sloppy for two people, but makes sense for one.

Had another person been involved, I would have expected her car to be dumped, and her personal effects discarded. This applies even with a huge wrench being thrown into CW’s plan, via the actions of Shanann’s friend.

This accomplice would have almost certainly been revealed during the course of the investigation.

 

[Charlot123]

what would be the basis for that speculation though? I just read a post about baseless speculation somewhere on one of these threads

We have no basis, from the Prosecution/LE for AP being an accomplice in these crimes. We've been told the co-worker is cooperating though.

Yes, and statistically, guys planning annihilation of their families/spouses never reveal the whole plan to APs. They may drop hints, such as, "I wish I were free and we could be together", but never do they reveal the whole plan.

I have already said it, and want to repeat. APs in these situations are at a risk, too. There is no such thing as "he killed this horrible woman to be with me". There is, however, "he killed her to be with me, he might as well kill me to be with someone else later".

His AP better cooperate, and all his previouis APs, flames, or whatever you call them, should step forward and talk to the prosecutors, too. Without knowing it, they might have been at risk as well.

CW is not the same as (obvously mentally ill) man in Australia who, having annihilated his whole family, spent several days with them, and finally, went to the police. CW might have own issues, but he was lying, he planned everyting meticulously, and he is not telling the truth even now. He planned, and accused his dead wife, and surprisingly, some view his version as the possibility. Logically, to me (what he said) makes no sense.

I think we are obsessing over the same details because there is very little new information, so in a way, we have to wait till the trial to find out anything new.

 

[nwmouse]

Personally, I absolutely believe that he committed this crime alone.

All the steps that he allegedly took, could have been committed by CW within the established time frame.

It doesn’t take two people to dig a shallow grave, and I wouldn’t have expected a sheet and bag to be left at the scene. It seems too sloppy for two people, but makes sense for one.

Had another person been involved, I would have expected her car to be dumped, and her personal effects discarded. This applies even with a huge wrench being thrown into CW’s plan, via the actions of Shanann’s friend.

This accomplice would have almost certainly been revealed during the course of the investigation.

Agree with this 1 million times. Perhaps the AP was the trigger that made CW act and kill his wife and toddlers. But I certainly DO NOT think any of his AP's could have been involved. The male alleged AP TB was likely too worried about his make up getting smudged to have helped CW with the disposal of bodies. I think CW acted alone. Adding a big fat MOO.

 

[Whiteorchids]

We seem to be getting more info from diff't sources about CW not doing well in jail. Given the comparisons to other family annihilators and such, does this match their profiles? Or have most of them been stiff and stoic while incarcerated? Just curious. Everyone is different. I don't believe any of us ever 100% match a certain profile or DSM-5 Psych disorders.

Suicide watch usually is padded wall to wall and they go without clothes so they can’t harm themselves. I have a feeling he’s just in solitary and not on suicide watch. I know people in jail and they always refrain from using the “suicide” word or something that might lead officers to think they want to die because according to inmates suicide watch is absolutely the worst.

I’m sure once CW get a regular cell alone or with a cellmate and starts receiving his commissary, inmate fan mail, magazines, books, quarterly packages, getting some yard and workout time, TV his demeanor will be much more Cheerful.

 

[MassGuy]

Agree with this 1 million times. Perhaps the AP was the trigger that made CW act and kill his wife and toddlers. But I certainly DO NOT think any of his AP's could have been involved. The male alleged AP TB was likely too worried about his make up getting smudged to have helped CW with the disposal of bodies. I think CW acted alone.

Exactly. She may have been the motive, but not an actor.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Ballpark scenario for my accomplice theory:

First: the amount of activity/physical exertion to commit the crimes, remove the bodies, drive to the site, disposed of them and the back to business (creepy) in correlation with the timing to accomplish all that. It doesn't add up, at least for me.

Second: It might be nothing, but on the porch interview CW said: this has to stop/this has to end.
It's a weird expression regarding the circumstances. I think it was a cryptic message/plea to the accomplice, as in "let's cave in, I cant handle it anymore".
Why on a news interview? Because he knows all his SM/phone calls/texts/message are been monitored; maybe that's why.

… and back to my rabbit hole...

All good thoughts, Mosaic. No rabbit hole retreat needed!

MOO here only.

First: Carrying the girls was probably nothing to him, so any exertion would have been the stress of killing people, carrying SW and digging a grave. No source has yet said what the shallow grave was like. It's been reported the soil is dense clay, hard to dig, but maybe that area had some excavated dirt and he just tossed some shovelfuls on top of the body, nothing elaborate?

Second: Yes, very, very strange wording, huh? Your perspective is interesting there. Maybe it meant something to do with their relationship situation - just guessing here - "she has to listen to me - I've been telling her for months I want out" or "this endless videotaping" or "our excess spending and trying to catch our tails all the time." I could probably think of 20 more potentials, all hypothetical.

 

[nwmouse]

Yes, and statistically, guys planning annihilation of their families/spouses never reveal the whole plan to APs. They may drop hints, such as, "I wish I were free and we could be together", but never do they reveal the whole plan.

I have already said it, and want to repeat. APs in these situations are at a risk, too. There is no such thing as "he killed this horrible woman to be with me". There is, however, "he killed her to be with me, he might as well kill me to be with someone else later".

His AP better cooperate, and all his previouis APs, flames, or whatever you call them, should step forward and talk to the prosecutors, too. Without knowing it, they might have been at risk as well.

CW is not the same as (obvously mentally ill) man in Australia who, having annihilated his whole family, spent several days with them, and finally, went to the police. CW might have own issues, but he was lying, he planned everyting meticulously, and he is not telling the truth even now. He planned, and accused his dead wife, and guess what, some view his version as the possibility. Logically, to me it makes no sense. I think we are obsessing over the same details because there is very little new information, so in a way, we have to wait till the trial to find out the details.

BBM:
Agree with everything you say except that he planned everything meticulously. Any planning he did was p-poor. MOO MOO.

 

[nwmouse]

Suicide watch usually is padded wall to wall and they go without clothes so they can’t harm themselves. I have a feeling he’s just in solitary and not on suicide watch. I know people in jail and they always refrain from using the “suicide” word or something that might lead officers to think they want to die because according to inmates suicide watch is absolutely the worst.

I’m sure once CW get a regular cell alone or with a cellmate and starts receiving his commissary, inmate fan mail, magazines, books, quarterly packages, getting some yard and workout time, TV his demeanor will be much more Cheerful.

Thanks for this info: I had no idea that on suicide watch the convict would have to be naked.

I'm sure his demeanor will perk up when he gets fan mail from bimbos who fall in love with murderers. He'll have a nice balance in his commissary account (remember the anti-fart pills Jodi Arias stocked up with from the prison shop?)and can spend his days corresponding with his admirers, working out to be buff for future tv interviews to say how he has been wronged by an "unfair" wife and even more unfair system... Poor guy has been so wronged he may want to call the Waaaaahmbulance. Heck, he may even find himself a prison "wife" or become one himself!

 

[Charlot123]

I was saying that from the defense team's point of view and how they will present the way CW dispose of the bodies. That CW wasn't manipulating, but he panicked and got rid of the bodies as quickly as he can, perhaps to protect the wife's image.

It is important to note that the way he disposed of the bodies does not equal premeditation. Somebody can kill someone accidentally and still dispose the same way.

He said, 'these kids are my whole world" or something like it. Imagine you finding kids blue because of strangulation, and you strangle your wife. Won't you kill 911 so that maybe one of them could be saved? There was a (rather bizarre ) situation when a brain dead woman was kept on the assisted ventilation because she was pregnant, although the baby died inside her. I forgot the details of the case, but it once happened. Maybe not once. But to call 911, even in the hope that Nico could be saved the same way? If they all meant so much to him? Think of a person who really loves his family and lost them in such a strange way. To give it a try?

 

[Whiteorchids]

Many times AP involved too. Sometimes directly and sometimes indirectly or not at all. First thing that comes to mind is the Sabrina Limon and her lover Jonathan Hearn who shot and killed her husband Robert Limon.

That actually was a very interesting case I followed. It was on Dateline as well.

 

[maeleemae]

Since it has been said that CW wanted the separation, couldn't he have waited one more day instead of discussing it in the wee hours of the morning? I think there was evidence of a romp with the AF when SW came home.

Above I quoted Kenzie but must have inadvertently deleted “end quote” Below is my response. Edited.

I’ve been thinking the same cause that would cause a fight no matter how tired you are. Did SW smell perfume on those sheets and tore them off the bed? I could see that. It’s probably the first thing I would do.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Thanks for this info: I had no idea that on suicide watch the convict would have to be naked.

I'm sure his demeanor will perk up when he gets fan mail from bimbos who fall in love with murderers. He'll have a nice balance in his commissary account (remember the anti-fart pills Jodi Arias stocked up with from the prison shop?)and can spend his days corresponding with his admirers, working out to be buff for future tv interviews to say how he has been wronged by an "unfair" wife and even more unfair system... Poor guy has been so wronged he may want to call the Waaaaahmbulance. Heck, he may even find himself a prison "wife"!

Yeah you’d be surprised how well they get accustomed once they are sent off to prison, jail is a little rougher. They have much more to do in prison, lots of groups, better food then they get in jail and free, can order radios and tvs in quarterly packages for their cell, learn a trade, a job CW would most likely be a mechanic, they even earn degrees.

 

[Mosaic]

Personally, I absolutely believe that he committed this crime alone.

All the steps that he allegedly took, could have been committed by CW within the established time frame.

It doesn’t take two people to dig a shallow grave, and I wouldn’t have expected a sheet and bag to be left at the scene. It seems too sloppy for two people, but makes sense for one.

Had another person been involved, I would have expected her car to be dumped, and her personal effects discarded. This applies even with a huge wrench being thrown into CW’s plan, via the actions of Shanann’s friend.

This accomplice would have almost certainly been revealed during the course of the investigation.

Thanks for your feedback. I'm still debating, but my hunch is the accomplice was present/active for the disposal, not during the murdering stage.
Since, he is sticking to his version of him strangling SW because she strangled the babies and he confessed to the bodies location; I see it as in protective mode.
Unless he TALKS, there is no way to out an accomplice until you get solid proof.

My hunch? IF there is an accomplice, LE is aware of that, gathering evidence and most probably play the immunity card.

JMO

 

[Pseudonym]

In reference to the footprint on the bag . Here's a horrible thought . The back seat of his ute ( I'm Australian , not sure what you call his car . Dual cab ute ?) doesn't look very large . Could it be that when placing the bags with the bodies enclosed, into the seat area , could he have used his foot to push the bags in so they all fitted before closing the door ? It's an unpleasant thought but it's what I do when I have my arms full of bags of rubbish and I'm squashing it into my car. Regardless of how it occurred , CW treated them like rubbish not his precious loved ones.

 

[sun16]

Yeah you’d be surprised how well they get accustomed once they are sent off to prison, jail is a little rougher. They have much more to do in prison, lots of groups, better food then they get in jail and free, can order radios and tvs in quarterly packages for their cell, learn a trade, a job CW would most likely be a mechanic, they even earn degrees.

I don’t believe CW is going to make it in jail or prison especially. Unsure if he’ll last weeks, months, or maybe a couple years at best. We’ll see.

 

[nwmouse]

Thanks for your feedback. I'm still debating, but my hunch is the accomplice was present/active for the disposal, not during the murdering stage.
Since, he is sticking to his version of him strangling SW because she strangled the babies and he confessed to the bodies location; I see it as in protective mode.
Unless he TALKS, there is no way to out an accomplice until you get solid proof.

My hunch? IF there is an accomplice, LE is aware of that, gathering evidence and most probably play the immunity card.

JMO

It will be a very interesting trial. At this stage I'm not thinking any of his AP's were involved. Allegedly. MOO MOO.