Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

[pocketaccent]

It would be a fitted sheet and would be easier to envelop the body.

I think she was laying on the bed when he killed her, so he just lifted four corners of the fitted sheet off the bed and wrapped her up and carried her downstairs.

 

[gitana1]

I feel bad for Shanann. It looks like sharing things on SM should be a big no no, since people over analyze every little thing she posted and how she dealt with the situations in the videos. Some people are diagnosing her without even knowing her, just based on some videos and photos she took.

And based on cherry picked videos. Do you know how much volume she posted? Just look at June alone? But it's like vultures have picked over her social media and scavenged for anything that could remotely be deemed to be negative.

Five or so posts in three years, about her kids being sick among tens of thousands of posts? She must have facticious disorder.

A few posts that possibly show her being snarky or parenting in ways others feel is not correct, among thousands that show her bond with her family? She's abusive and emasculating.

In the meantime, the posts in which she expresses deep appreciation and gratitude for her husband are either ignored or deemed to be self serving due to an ulterior motive.

The hundreds of posts showing her tenderness with her children? Totally passed over.

The dozens and dozens of posts in which she praises her children's strength and independence and kindness? No mention.

The various posts showing her picking Bella up early for a special mommy/daughter date?

Haven't seen any of that discussed.

Poor lady can't win.

Shanann Watts

Shanann Watts

 

[Gardener1850]

Not only questioned, but denounced and berated. She is being accused of taunting her children and publicly humiliating them.

I agree, it's baffling. And in order to come to that conclusion, one must competely ignore her many posts like this one:

Love these two more than words! I cant imagine life without them! They are why I fight for better, why I’m strong, confident, they make me a better person! I’m not a perfect mom, but I do my best and they love me! I #thrive to be the BEST example I can be for them!

Shanann Watts

 

[Alethea]

Maybe I'm behind, but I don't know that the prosecution even has the coroner reports yet. Nothing in their motion indicates that to me, and obviously they can't turn over something to the defense that they don't have. It seems to me that they are requesting it to be sealed regardless of what it says, not because of what it says. Am I reading it wrong?
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/[L] MOTION TO DENY DISCLOSURE OF PUBLIC RECORD PURSUANT TO CRS 24-72-204(6)(A).pdf
MOO

I read it like you read it. I thought it was a preemptive motion to seal the reports when they are released to the parties. Discovery is formally "produced" to the other party when it is ready and/or on a scheduled time frame.

 

[Charlot123]

OK, I have lots of professional knowledge & experience in this regard. This is my opinion, take it for what it’s worth (or not worth in your opinion).

These pictures are from Thanksgiving Day 2016. So Bella was 2 years old & CeCe was 1. They both appear to be receiving a punishment of standing with their noses in a corner. I will give the benefit of the doubt & assume a 1 year old is not being punished in this manner, although IMO the post does allude to that.

Even if it is just 2 year-old Bella, a pediatrician, child psychologist, or any other professional with deep knowledge of child development would tell you this is not age-appropriate.

Toddlerhood is a particularly vexing time for parents, because this is the age at which children start to become more independent and discover themselves as individuals. Yet they still have a limited ability to communicate and reason.

I’m not stating this to cast judgement on posters who have done this to their own children. I’m looking at this & other things I know & have observed of SW’s parenting style & addressing how this may fit in with the bigger picture.

According to the American Board of Child & Adolescent Psychology, “Time-outs may not be the best approach for the toddler stage. The negative implication of being sent away can teach kids that they're bad rather than promote good behavior. At the toddler stage, we recommend parents instead try redirection, as it is far more effective than discipline tactics at this age.” For example, a cozy corner for the child to look at a book & take a break, usually a minute per each year if age (2 min for a 2 year old, so to speak).

Add to this the fact that the children were publicly shamed by these pictures being posted on SM.

I’m not diagnosing SW by pictures & videos alone, but there are many things (this, the Xmas video with her becoming angry with Bella for not enjoying the experience & repeatedly calling her names, the video where she allowed CeCe to put herself in danger climbing to “learn her lesson,” etc) that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children.

Probably you are right. Another truth, all parents make mistake raising their kids.

This case, and these tapes, could be used for couples' counseling, or to train parents, or even for financial planning. (As warning against MLMs). Or mostly, they can educate us all about the pitfalls of SM.

The only thing they don't prove is that SW killed her daughters. I personally am not in awe of SW, but if you point to one episode in these posts indicating she could have done it, I'd support your post more. But sadly, all red flags might have pointed to her - not too shrewd - personal traits, but nothing else.

Horrible to write, but SW became a "celebrity" of her own kind because of her death, so people are watching these videos (made to push her product) - and try to find an answer. There is no different answer. CW killed two kids and a pregnant woman. RIP all four victims.

 

[NuttMegg]

Why would he go for a deal if he had to admit to killing them all? Would the deal be no death then?

Or would he not want the sordid details out in public?

I think going over all of the stuff that will be dragged up in a trial is not worth it . Think of the Jodi Arias trial or Casey Anthony. Who wants that!

Ted Bumdy had women and so did Richard Ramirez. CW will have drama with women.

Just get it over with and he can fade into oblivion.

Sure, as long as he doesn't leave it so ppl think she killed her babies.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Because of the constant non-stop work the mods have to do to keep the Watts discussion under control I've decided on a new rule:

If you violate Terms Of Service in any way, no more warnings. You receive a 3-day timeout or more.

Here are things to remember when posting,

STAY ON TOPIC. This thread is not about other cases or people you know that have nothing to do with the case. All we ask is you discuss the topic at hand which is the Watts homicides.

NO SNARKY REMARKS. Snarky is basically good old fashioned mean sarcasm. Don't post anything snarky and you won't have to worry.

NO DISCUSSING MODERATION. This is self-explanatory.

NO DISCUSSING OTHER MEMBERS. An example of this would be someone posting about all the posters who think Chris Watts is innocent and your opinion of these posters. That kind of discussion is what I mean when I say no discussing other members. Even if you are doing it in a kind manner it would be best if you did not post about other members. No matter what you say if you discuss other members it is considered off topic.

NO DISRUPTING THE THREAD.

All of the timeouts we will issue will be based on the moderator's opinions.

If you can remember to be kind to each other, stay on topic, and don't stop the thread with some random post that has nothing to do with the case and you should be just fine.

Thank you,
Tricia

I wanted to bring this forward as a friendly reminder.

NO DISCUSSING OTHER MEMBERS. An example of this would be someone posting about all the posters who think Chris Watts is innocent and your opinion of these posters. That kind of discussion is what I mean when I say no discussing other members. Even if you are doing it in a kind manner it would be best if you did not post about other members. No matter what you say if you discuss other members it is considered off topic.

 

[PommyMommy]

I agree, it's baffling. And in order to come to that conclusion, one must competely ignore her many posts like this one:

Shanann Watts

And there you have it. She says it herself what should be so blatantly obvious, "’I'm not a perfect mom, but I do my best and they love me!"

MOO

 

[MerryB]

Obviously, no one 'needs' to post a picture to SM. But pix of your toddlers getting their first haircuts, first timeouts, first missing front teeth, are all 'traditional' pictures. IMO, it is like a rite of passage.

I have a cute picture of my son at 3, sitting calmly in the timeout chair. And then my daughter at 3, sitting with her arms crossed, and yelling at us, from the chair, saying she was glad she was sitting there because she liked it, lol...

I didn't take those pictures to 'taunt' my children. I took them because they are cute and I was proud of them.

It is like a rite of passage for a child to grow to the age where they are starting to be accountable and responsible for grabbing a toy from their sibling or running into the street when they knew it was not safe. There is nothing wrong with being told to sit down for 2 minutes and think about what just happened. And then to apologize and get a big hug.

It really bothers me that some here are trying to make it out to be cruel or unusual punishment for a mom to give a 3 yr old a timeout.

Let me clarify: I am not basing my extremely informal assessment on only the fact that she put a one and two-year-old in time out.

 

[WildWest]

I said the relationship started to deteriorate post-Thrive. I think they were in debt, even before Thrive, and SW was "hooked" by the prospect of making money (this is why I don't view her as too astute - making a lot in a pyramid scheme is as unrealistic as getting rich by gambling, unless you have started the pyramid). And he probably went along with her plans because it gave him the time to stray. But the anger was accruing.

Adding imo that even a 9-5 salary job depending on the circumstances can precipitate marital problems too. As well as unemployment/underemployment, any of the mentioned or a mix.

 

[mtnlites]

And it's not just personal use. More and more businesses are using social media to reach customers. One of my business contacts LOVES Facebook Live. He is on once a week answering questions about professional marketing. I have "appeared" on his show to talk about a Supreme Court case relevant to his clients. Social media advisors will tell you to sell "yourself" on social media and the business will follow. And I don't mean MLMs, this is advice to lawyers, doctors, accountants. My new dentist has an instagram account for his practice. My clients routinely request to add me as a friend on Facebook and then seem surprised when I post about my pets and hobbies instead of the law. It is really becoming all-consuming even if you don't want it to be.

I think whether we personally think this whole phenomenon is good and healthy is different and irrelevant to the fact that one person used social media as it is commonly used - a place to share every mundane detail of your life.

Yes, I use FB for my business. I reach more customers through FB than just about any other medium.

The point about people's opinions regarding social media is a good one. Whether you like it or not, agree with how people use it or not, doesn't negate the fact that lots of people use it in the same way. Personally, I would've gotten worn out with all the Thrive posts that SW shared. However, I also understand that MLM companies encourage that kind of posting. I see the exact same thing from my friends who direct sell makeup and essential oils-there's nothing unique about her SM pages except for the fact that she is now dead and we can see them.

 

[Jennifer17]

Let me clarif: I am not basing my extremely informal assessment on only the fact that she put a one and two-year-old in time out.

Have you done a corresponding informal assessment on CW?
<modsnip snark>

 

[Alethea]

I think the intense eye on SW's social media accounts is partly just how mean we all are these days. My friend is a mom blogger and joked the quickest way to get 10,000 comments on a post is to show a picture of your baby with the seatbelt buckle intentionally slightly low. You'll have thousands of people yelling at you that you're doing it wrong.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I have been married since 1973. We had a couple friends that we played cards with that would belittle each other the whole night. We finished with the relationship. It was too nasty.

We keep our business to ourselves. I don’t think amyone enjoys listening to people bicker.

I certainly don't enjoy watching and hearing bickering, especially when it involves young children.[/QUOTE]
I don't enjoy watching grown adults bickering over and trashing a murdered pregnant mother. But, here we are. MOO.

 

[human]

And based on cherry picked videos. Do you know how much volume she posted? Just look at June alone? But it's like vultures have picked over her social media and scavenged for anything that could remotely be deemed to be negative.

Five or so posts in three years, about her kids being sick among tens of thousands of posts? She must have facticious disorder.

A few posts that possibly show her being snarky or parenting in ways others feel is not correct, among thousands that show her bond with her family? She's abusive and emasculating.

In the meantime, the posts in which she expresses deep appreciation and gratitude for her husband are either ignored or deemed to be self serving due to an ulterior motive.

The hundreds of posts showing her tenderness with her children? Totally passed over.

The dozens and dozens of posts in which she praises her children's strength and independence and kindness? No mention.

The various posts showing her picking Bella up early for a special mommy/daughter date?

Haven't seen any of that discussed.

Poor lady can't win.

Shanann Watts

Shanann Watts

How long did it take to watch those? The only ones I looked at were the ones posted on here and that took loong enough with the buffereing issues.

 

[human]

I certainly don't enjoy watching and hearing bickering, especially when it involves young children.

I don't enjoy watching grown adults bickering over and trashing a murdered pregnant mother. But, here we are. MOO.[/QUOTE]

That is the nature of crime sites.

 

[PommyMommy]

Found this nice little recap and don't remember seeing it posted.

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[margarita25]

@PommyMommy,

Can you please be so kind as to bring fwd your FA chart again. I have some data on these I want to crunch...

In the cases you listed, in which were the children killed first, and how long before? You had also mentioned that some family members within each case had different CODs from each other.

Thank you for your time and efforts here again!!

 

[ray9898]

But that is ridiculous, on it's face, that there is no probable cause for the palm prints.

The defendant disposed of three STRANGLED dead bodies. Obviously, there are going to be possible palm prints on the necks of those dead bodies, that the defendant, himself, dumped.

What more probable cause could there be?

My take of reading that motion is a main issue for the defense is the absence of that type language.

There was no 'the states request a palm print to compare to impression evidence noted on the body of the victims'. It was a vague we need these 3 things to compare to a 'variety of evidence' leaving the defense in the dark.

 

[mtnlites]

I think the intense eye on SW's social media accounts is partly just how mean we all are these days. My friend is a mom blogger and joked the quickest way to get 10,000 comments on a post is to show a picture of your baby with the seatbelt buckle intentionally slightly low. You'll have thousands of people yelling at you that you're doing it wrong. People love to pick at other people.

Man, that's the truth. It's one of the reasons why I never take pictures or videos of my kids in the car. I know someone would find something wrong with it. The same goes with discipline-someone always has something to say about the way it's handled. I find that many of the complaints come not from other mothers necessarily, but from non-parents. I hope I wasn't like that before I had kids, but I probably was. *shudder*