Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

[Shekkiec]

No. It's not. Common booking processes in most states typically only still include finger prints.

Colorado unveils new fingerprint tracking system – The Denver Post
Colorado Bureau of Investigation
Oh ok I thought they had palm prints bc of this system
Colorado Bureau of Investigation

 

[dixiegirl1035]

If his truck is a company owned vehicle, it may have a built in GPS which may show where he was and what time he was there.

And if they have them on their trucks, then perhaps they also have one similar to my insurance company that has their device on my car for a lower rates. It shows when I do Fast Breaking, fast acceleration etc. For insurance purposes, they may have one that shows the speed like trucks and buses have?. It shows it in a chart that I can bring up and look at on the internet.

 

[Alethea]

I think it's important to keep in mind that it is the state's burden to prove every element of the crime. The defense has to ensure the state is meeting its burden or the defendant is not being awarded the protections we all have when accused of a crime.

Every defense lawyer has a different strategy and view. Some very good lawyers will oppose every single thing the prosecutor says or does. In their mind, that is the strongest defense; that is how we maintain our constitutional protections. The prosecution will say the sky is blue and the defense will object that it's vague could you please provide evidence including the corresponding Pantone color number. Other defense lawyers look more holistically at the situation and pick their battles. For me I don't like frivolous motion practice, I think it wastes time and can start wearing away at a judge which can cause harm to your client.

So some of these motions seem ridiculous but the defense lawyer is likely thinking that they are not going to roll over and just give the state everything while their client's life is on the line. They will fight because they think they have to fight, not because they necessarily think they will win. And they are probably realistic about it in private.

 

[nwmouse]

My question is, if only exercised, or they also took some appetite suppressants. Both of them.

I have not taken any Thrive or other weight loss supplements, but experts say that to lose weight it is 80% diet and 20% exercise. In my experience this is true and maybe CW lost so much weight from dieting as well as cardio exercise.

 

[PommyMommy]

And if they have them on their trucks, then they also have one similar to my insurance company that has their device on my car for a lower rates. It shows when I do Fast Break in, and shows my speed at all times. It shows it in a chart that I can bring up and look at on the internet!

Yes, this is exactly what I'm hoping to see.
MOO

 

[Gardener1850]

I don't think we know, but it's an interesting thought. I also wonder whether the GPS (assuming there was one in his truck) will reveal whether he was speeding home or not. They should be able to calculate the distance covered using the two points and come up with travel time/speed, right? I am definitely not the most knowledgeable of GPS, lol.
MOO

I think the little black box in his truck will tell quite a bit. Back on another thread I saw someone mention he may have had a "back up" camera in the truck. I didn't see the whole thread so forgive if this was already discussed but I wonder if back up cameras record and save the video. Could there be a video of him from the back up camera carrying the bodies to the truck? Or even unloading them at the dump site if he backed in there and left the truck idling?

 

[Shekkiec]

Colorado unveils new fingerprint tracking system – The Denver Post
Colorado Bureau of Investigation
Oh ok I thought they had palm prints bc of this system
Colorado Bureau of Investigation

This is the picture with the link
So @gitana1 they wouldn’t have it then as procedure ? In your opinion why would motion be filed by prosecution and denied by defense ? Is it because they need to release probable cause to defense or why?

 

[human]

Thanks for looking, @NuttMegg. I might have misunderstood your post, thinking the diagram was something else. If it was a map, I don't need that. I'm really more interested in finding the article, video or whatever it is that mentions the witnesses who may have seen him near the recovery site. Was this on AB? If so, I'm trying to catch up on those videos, maybe I'll run across it.

MOO

I think I have read most everything on here. Stuff has been deleted so maybe it was from unapproved info site or it was from AB. I don’t have access to AB and I never saw the interviews, so my guess is AB

 

[PommyMommy]

This is the picture with the link

Does it say anywhere in all of that (sorry, don't have time to read it) that they take a polaroid photo of the defendant at the time the prints are made and staple it to the finger/palm print card? Because that is what the state is requesting.

MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

I think I have read most everything on here. Stuff has been deleted so maybe it was from unapproved info site or it was from AB. I don’t have access to AB and I never saw the interviews, so my guess is AB

True, but we figured all of this out several posts later, so all good.
MOO

 

[compass]

What if.... he killed and readied the girls for disposal hiding them in garage shortly after birthday party. Upon her arrival home he told SW the girls were spending night with friends, maybe the Theyers. He waited for SW to fall asleep. She had trouble falling asleep quickly further delaying his plan. Finally asleep he strangled her from behind as she lay in bed. There was no confrontation at all. It all was premeditated and calmly carried out. Sheet left at scene was to be soaked in gas later to start large fire in hopes of destroying everything there. Possibility???

 

[PommyMommy]

I think the little black box in his truck will tell quite a bit. Back on another thread I saw someone mention he may have had a "back up" camera in the truck. I didn't see the whole thread so forgive if this was already discussed but I wonder if back up cameras record and save the video. Could there be a video of him from the back up camera carrying the bodies to the truck? Or even unloading them at the dump site if he backed in there and left the truck idling?

Boy, I sure don't know that. I hope so.
MOO

 

[MyBelle]

I think it's important to keep in mind that it is the state's burden to prove every element of the crime. The defense has to ensure the state is meeting its burden or the defendant is not being awarded the protections we all have when accused of a crime.

Every defense lawyer has a different strategy and view. Some very good lawyers will oppose every single thing the prosecutor says or does. In their mind, that is the strongest defense; that is how we maintain our constitutional protections. The prosecution will say the sky is blue and the defense will object that it's vague could you please provide evidence including the corresponding Pantone color number. Other defense lawyers look more holistically at the situation and pick their battles. For me I don't like frivolous motion practice, I think it wastes time and can start wearing away at a judge which can cause harm to your client.

So some of these motions seem ridiculous but the defense lawyer is likely thinking that they are not going to roll over and just give the state everything while their client's life is on the line. They will fight because they think they have to fight, not because they necessarily think they will win. And they are probably realistic about it in private.

Do you have any thoughts as to why the Prosecution would file a motion to seal the autopsy reports before the Defense has received them? I'm not understanding how the defense could properly respond to a motion before receiving what the DA is trying to seal. Thanks!

 

[Best of What's Around]

Well said. It is so easy to redirect a toddler. The "control via humiliation" route usually does result in a disastrous outcome. Which we certainly have in this case. JMO

These FB videos and photos have been online for the public to view for over a month now. I have yet to see, and please correct me if I am wrong, one licensed professional psychologist or psychiatrist state that they show parental behaviors outside the spectrum of normal, reasonable, loving parents. I have not seen it on WS nor seen it on MSM. Yet, we have behavior on the part of CW post-murders that lies outside the spectrum of a normal, reasonable, loving parent and husband. I have seen at least one FBI profiler (expert) state this on review of just his media interviews.

 

[katydid23]

OK, I have lots of professional knowledge & experience in this regard. This is my opinion, take it for what it’s worth (or not worth in your opinion).

These pictures area from Thanksgiving Day 2016. So Bella was 2 years old & CeCe was 1. They both appear to be receiving a punishment of standing with their noses in a corner. I will give the benefit of the doubt & assume a 1 year old is not being punished in this manner, although IMO the post does allude to that.

Even if it is just 2 year-old Bella, a pediatrician, child psychologist, or any other professional with deep knowledge of child development would tell you this is not age-appropriate.

Toddlerhood is a particularly vexing time for parents, because this is the age at which children start to become more independent and discover themselves as individuals. Yet they still have a limited ability to communicate and reason.

I’m not stating this to cast judgement on posters who have done this to their own children. I’m looking at this & other things I know & have observed of SW’s parenting style & addressing how this may fit in with the bigger picture.

According to the American Board if Child & Adolescent Psychology, “Time-outs may not be the best approach for the toddler stage. The negative implication of being sent away can teach kids that they're bad rather than promote good behavior. At the toddler stage, we recommend parents instead try redirection, as it is far more effective than discipline tactics at this age.”
For example, a cozy corner for the child to look at a book & take a break, usually a minute per each year if age (2 min for a 2 year old, so to speak).

Add to this the fact that the children were publicly shamed by these pictures being posted on SM.

I’m not diagnosing SW by pictures & videos alone, but there are many things (this, the Xmas video with her becoming angry with Bella for not enjoying the experience & repeatedly calling her names, the video where she allowed CeCe to put herself in danger climbing to “learn her lesson,” etc) that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children.

For every article that you can show, that says Timeouts are bad, I can show articles that say they are fine and can be effective and positive. Even for 2 yr olds. For example, from Dr. Sears:

"Language makes time-out for children easier. By two years of age most children understand what time-out means—if they misbehave it’s off to the chair they go. They perceive time-out as a break in their activity, a parent-imposed (logical) consequence of their behavior. The older the child, the more detailed the explanation can be. We started using official time-outs with Lauren when she was eighteen-months-old. She had witnessed many time-outs for Stephen, so when it was her turn she understood clearly what we were doing. We could tell by the gleam in her eye and the alert body language that this little ritual was a special experience, and she got into the spirit of it willingly. She also knew the ritual included an enforced (though brief) time of sitting alone. Stephen needed frequent reminders, so she knew she was expected to stay seated. As soon as the novelty wore off, she was no longer amused."
Techniques for Time-Out for Children | Ask Dr Sears


Experts rarely agree. So we can see that SOME childhood development experts recommend using Timeouts as a tool, while others may not.

But I do think it is unfair to criticize a young mother for using a COMMONLY practiced technique, probably taught to her by her parents, and maybe by her teachers, for dealing with toddler's misbehavior.

Even your excerpt said "“Time-outs may not be the best approach..." That is hardly a rebuke. It does not say 'never give a 2 yr old a time out...' etc.

As for the accusation that SW was 'publicly shaming' her 2 yr old...I say RUBBISH. That is just silly.

But I really have to question your final sentence:

"...but there are many things (this, the Xmas video with her becoming angry with Bella for not enjoying the experience & repeatedly calling her names, the video where she allowed CeCe to put herself in danger climbing to “learn her lesson,” etc) that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children"

I never saw SW as being 'angry' at Bella in the Santa video. I would disagree with that description of what SW was feeling. Nor would I agree with the assessment that SW was 'allowing' CeCe to put herself in danger. CeCe had ALREADY climbed on top of the sink area. Then she began whining because she knew she was stuck. I think SW was wanting CeCe to feel uncomfortable for a minute, to try and prevent her from doing it again in the future. Was that a smart or safe decision? Maybe not, but it wasn't a horrible or cruel one. It was a judgement call, like Moms with small children make every day.

But your final statement===that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children"...


Are you saying that SW putting Bella in a TO, and being frustrated with the Santa video, and allowing CeCe to stay stuck for 30 seconds on the sink area, somehow leads to her brutally strangling her babies?

 

[Alethea]

Do you have any thoughts as to why the Prosecution would file a motion to seal the autopsy reports before the Defense has received them? I'm not understanding how the defense could properly respond to a motion before receiving what the DA is trying to seal. Thanks!

Honestly the defense filed a motion accusing the state of leaks. If I were the prosecutor I'd want a motion sealing the autopsy before it was released from the ME to even my office since the defense has already accused my office of leaking information and requested an "investigation" into it. If the defense is so worried about leaks, it should want as much as possible sealed.

 

[PommyMommy]

What if.... he killed and readied the girls for disposal hiding them in garage shortly after birthday party. Upon her arrival home he told SW the girls were spending night with friends, maybe the Theyers. He waited for SW to fall asleep. She had trouble falling asleep quickly further delaying his plan. Finally asleep he strangled her from behind as she lay in bed. There was no confrontation at all. It all was premeditated and calmly carried out. Sheet left at scene was to be soaked in gas later to start large fire in hopes of destroying everything there. Possibility???

To be quite honest, I don't think that it's a likely scenario because I just don't see this particular mother not peeking in the girls' rooms when she went upstairs. And if she didn't at least check in on them, there was a baby monitor on her nightstand and she would have noticed them missing before she laid down.

If something along these lines occurred, stomach contents and lividity would likely tell us that. Obviously, we don't have that information yet.
MOO

 

[Jenni]

But remember, he did take them to a birthday party that Sunday afternoon.

And when they got home all "sugared up from birthday food", that may be when he snapped and down hill from there...

 

[Best of What's Around]

For every article that you can show, that says Timeouts are bad, I can show articles that say they are fine and can be effective and positive. Even for 2 yr olds. For example, from Dr. Sears:

"Language makes time-out for children easier. By two years of age most children understand what time-out means—if they misbehave it’s off to the chair they go. They perceive time-out as a break in their activity, a parent-imposed (logical) consequence of their behavior. The older the child, the more detailed the explanation can be. We started using official time-outs with Lauren when she was eighteen-months-old. She had witnessed many time-outs for Stephen, so when it was her turn she understood clearly what we were doing. We could tell by the gleam in her eye and the alert body language that this little ritual was a special experience, and she got into the spirit of it willingly. She also knew the ritual included an enforced (though brief) time of sitting alone. Stephen needed frequent reminders, so she knew she was expected to stay seated. As soon as the novelty wore off, she was no longer amused."
Techniques for Time-Out for Children | Ask Dr Sears


Experts rarely agree. So we can see that SOME childhood development experts recommend using Timeouts as a tool, while others may not.

But I do think it is unfair to criticize a young mother for using a COMMONLY practiced technique, probably taught to her by her parents, and maybe by her teachers, for dealing with toddler's misbehavior.

Even your excerpt said "“Time-outs may not be the best approach..." That is hardly a rebuke. It does not say 'never give a 2 yr old a time out...' etc.

As for the accusation that SW was 'publicly shaming' her 2 yr old...I say RUBBISH. That is just silly.

But I really have to question your final sentence:

"...but there are many things (this, the Xmas video with her becoming angry with Bella for not enjoying the experience & repeatedly calling her names, the video where she allowed CeCe to put herself in danger climbing to “learn her lesson,” etc) that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children"

I never saw SW as being 'angry' at Bella in the Santa video. I would disagree with that description of what SW was feeling. Nor would I agree with the assessment that SW was 'allowing' CeCe to put herself in danger. CeCe had ALREADY climbed on top of the sink area. Then she began whining because she knew she was stuck. I think SW was wanting CeCe to feel uncomfortable for a minute, to try and prevent her from doing it again in the future. Was that a smart or safe decision? Maybe not, but it wasn't a horrible or cruel one. It was a judgement call, like Moms with small children make every day.

But your final statement===that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children"...


Are you saying that SW putting Bella in a TO, and being frustrated with the Santa video, and allowing CeCe to stay stuck for 30 seconds on the sink area, somehow leads to her brutally strangling her babies?

YES. And there are tons of videos that show SW as an EXTREMELY PATIENT, nurturing, loving mother even when her toddlers are having a meltdown....the "Baking" titled FB video of SW comes to mind. Bella has a meltdown near the end because she wants the bowl CeeCee has and SW rubs her back, hugs her, comforts her, and goes out of her way to try to accommodate Bella's desires. IMO, she goes above and beyond to accommodate her … much more than I would have for what was otherwise just an irrational breakdown on the part of a toddler.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

Obviously, no one 'needs' to post a picture to SM. But pix of your toddlers getting their first haircuts, first timeouts, first missing front teeth, are all 'traditional' pictures. IMO, it is like a rite of passage.

I have a cute picture of my son at 3, sitting calmly in the timeout chair. And then my daughter at 3, sitting with her arms crossed, and yelling at us, from the chair, saying she was glad she was sitting there because she liked it, lol...

I didn't take those pictures to 'taunt' my children. I took them because they are cute and I was proud of them.

It is like a rite of passage for a child to grow to the age where they are starting to be accountable and responsible for grabbing a toy from their sibling or running into the street when they knew it was not safe. There is nothing wrong with being told to sit down for 2 minutes and think about what just happened. And then to apologize and get a big hug.

It really bothers me that some here are trying to make it out to be cruel or unusual punishment for a mom to give a 3 yr old a timeout.

I feel bad for Shanann. It looks like sharing things on SM should be a big no no, since people over analyze every little thing she posted and how she dealt with the situations in the videos. Some people are diagnosing her without even knowing her, just based on some videos and photos she took.