Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #31

[Sillybilly]

Discuss the case and STOP discussing other members.

Thank you.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm not in the legal field myself but I suppose the defense will try their best to cast aspersions on a murdered pregnant mother who is no longer alive to defend herself, if it means getting CW off the hook. I do not believe CW will ever be released once the DA Michael Rourke launches his strategy with the FACTS. MOO.

Exactly. It is their only real strategy as I see it. <modsnip - discussing other forums>

It’s complete character assasination, based on emotion and devoid of facts.

<modsnip - discussing other forums>

 

[Tigerlily75]

So is there anyone who presumed him innocent ?

In order for me to presume his innocence, I would need to believe SW is guilty .. with no evidence at all to suggest that.

Thus my current position is the evidence presented so far is pointing to his guilt.

 

[KathrynL]

So is there anyone who presumed him innocent ?

He is legally presumed innocent, and I like that about our justice system. My impression is that it's very probable he killed them all. However, when and if a trial comes, I will weigh the evidence that is presented. Meanwhile, I grieve the senseless loss of 4 souls, and the families that are going through hell. moo

 

[Deleted member 230544]

So is there anyone who presumed him innocent ?

@Shekkiec in principal, the presumption of innocence until proven guilty appears to be a myth. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

In a court of law, there is a “presumption of innocence.”

Not so, in the “court of public opinion.”

Not with all the assumptions that have to be made, in order to believe that he is innocent.

The facts speak for themselves. And they do not speak kindly of CW.

Yes, we do not have to follow the guidelines as the jury would during the trial. Which is
a good thing because I'm not sure what would be left to discuss by now. We get to play detective, but with our own set of rules. Jmo

 

[pocketaccent]

I usually always presume the spouse innocent, in a missing person case, as I wait to see what the circumstances are. But in this case, the circumstances screamed GUILTY.

We knew she was dropped off at home at 2 am, he backed his truck into the garage at 5:30 am, then left. And there is no video evidence of SW and the girls leaving since then. <<<<BIG RED FLAGS right there.

It is very hard to presume innocence with those facts coming out in the early hours of the case.

Yes, he could have stage the scene to his heart's desire., yet he would've been caught red-handed with the neighbor's video regardless.

Roaches check in...but they don't check out (Roach Motel). Sorry to compare SW to roach. Ugh

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, we do not have to follow the guidelines as the jury would during the trial. Which is
a good thing because I'm not sure what would be left to discuss by now. We get to play detective, but with our own set of rules. Jmo

Haaaa, agreed. It would completely defeat the purpose of WS if we couldn’t discuss a defendant’s guilt until he was actually convicted.

 

[CFlo]

Yes, but at that point, it was too late to follow through with the plan of she took off after the emotional conversation when he was at work. All her things were there. Could be either scenario still. He definitely left it open with his call with Nichole before she called the police. I think there was a point to mentioning the separation.

And I still since day 1, feel NUA heard SWs phone ringing from the loft down to the front door that was open a few inches. Open either by physical key or keypad entry attempt.
I’m just guessing, but if we were to put ourselves in NUA shoes and my above scenario happened and she heard SWs phone ringing, that answers ALOT, IMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

Haaaa. It would completely defeat the purpose of WS if we couldn’t discuss a defendant’s guilt until he was actually convicted.

Right....every other post....OBJECTION!!

 

[nwmouse]

So is there anyone who presumed him innocent ?

In the beginning I tried to be open-minded and thought that maybe he was a bullied victim who snapped. But soon after reading the facts, watching his behavior and learning from the dedicated sleuther's on this forum, it removed all doubts in my mind that he could possibly be a victim. MOO he's a cold-hearted predator and killer. Unless there is extraordinary evidence to fit CW's extraordinary claim I do not believe in his innocence.

 

[CFlo]

Update: Rourke says he has not received autopsy reports in Christopher Watts case

In response to Weld District Court Judge Marcelo Kopcow’s order on Friday, Weld District Attorney Michael Rourke said he does not yet have the autopsy reports for Shanann Watts, 34, and her two daughters, Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3.

Rourke said his office had not received the autopsy reports, nor did it “insinuate” in its Sept. 17 motion they were completed. Rourke said the Weld County Coroner’s Office has not received the final reports from the forensic pathologist.

Exactly. They cannot provide what they DO NOT HAVE themselves. TY!

 

[NuttMegg]

In the beginning I tried to be open-minded and thought that maybe he was a bullied victim who snapped. But soon after reading the facts, watching his behavior and learning from the dedicated sleuther's on this forum, it removed all doubts in my mind that he could possible be a victim. MOO he's a cold-hearted predator and killer.

I've said this before, but it's what he did, and didn't do after the murders that seals the deal for me. And I'd love to be on the jury.

 

[rainynights]

On tonight's AB show, it is mentioned that the home security system could have logged the point in which the garage door was opened, and for how long (when it was subsequently closed). This idea has been mentioned here before by other posters here in previous threads. But it got me thinking about self-closing garage doors. Does anyone know if a self-closing door hinge is required (for home inspection purposes) on a garage door in the state of CO?

Not sure if any videos would have captured the garage door closing automatically. It could be important, considering if a) it is determined via the home security system that the garage door was opened for an extended period of time and b) the garage door had a self-closing hinge. That would seem to indicate he propped it open for a period of time, which would be unusual, IMO.

JMO.

 

[Best of What's Around]

@Shekkiec in principal, the presumption of innocence until proven guilty appears to be a myth. IMO

It is a legal term but is not meant to be carried out in public, or even in the legal system, to an absurd degree, as if that were the case, we would never arrest and lock up anyone until they were found guilty by a court of law IMO. Moreover, in my view, sometimes guilty people walk free. That doesn't mean they are innocent of the crime by strict definition in our society - just that they were not found guilty in a court of law and need to be afforded what legal rights the rest of us have. We don't have to think of them as innocent. They can even confess to a crime after the fact, since we have double jeopardy laws. There is innocent and guilty in the legal sense, and innocent and guilty as words we use to describe whether someone did something or not. I am probably making a mess of the legal points, above, but hopefully I am making some rational point here.

 

[MsBetsy]

In the beginning I tried to be open-minded and thought that maybe he was a bullied victim who snapped. But soon after reading the facts, watching his behavior and learning from the dedicated sleuther's on this forum, it removed all doubts in my mind that he could possible be a victim. MOO he's a cold-hearted predator and killer.

Me too. In fact when I first heard about it I was surprised, but my first thought was that what he said may be true, until I saw his interviews and read everything I could find about it. I think for many people those initial interviews, all the lying and distancing himself from his loved ones, and body language led them to believe nothing he said after that could be trusted. Maybe some have changed their minds, it would be interesting to find out. Jmo

 

[DexterMorgan]

Welcome to Websleuths, @justtrish ! ​

Thanks for joining us and yes, law enforcement is and has been all over his timeline, the camera, etc. All is SOP (standard operating procedure). How much was captured by the camera(s) will likely depend on the angle and how his truck was backed in. For example, whether the bed of the truck was inside the garage or not.
MOO

Also. A camera may look like its facing right while also picking up footage on a wide eye left.

So he may have not known that the camera may have been picking up certain footage. Jmo

 

[mtnlites]

In a court of law, there is a “presumption of innocence.”

Not so, in the “court of public opinion.”

Not with all the assumptions that have to be made, in order to believe that he is innocent.

The facts speak for themselves. And they do not speak kindly of CW.

I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to buy that anyone other than Chris killed the girls. To think he might be innocent I would have to disregard logic, reason, precedence, and facts. Although I have entertained other scenarios (a murder/suicide pact gone wrong, SW "snapping", an accidental death of one and subsequent panic resulting in the deaths of the other two, etc.) I find that I have to indulge in too much wild speculation to have them resemble any kind of sense. I have seen other defendants found guilty on far less evidence than what we have already been made aware of in this case.

 

[MassGuy]

I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to buy that anyone other than Chris killed the girls. To think he might be innocent I would have to disregard logic, reason, precedence, and facts. Although I have entertained other scenarios (a murder/suicide pact gone wrong, SW "snapping", an accidental death of one and subsequent panic resulting in the deaths of the other two, etc.) I find that I have to indulge in too much wild speculation to have them resemble any kind of sense. I have seen other defendants found guilty on far less evidence than what we have already been made aware of in this case.

Exactly. The more assumptions you make, the further you tend to stray from the truth.

 

[Nudgee]

idfinch said: ↑
"Additionally, there have been a number of private individual requests (citizen requests) for the autopsy reports, by persons who do not appear to have any connection to this case."

There must be a reason for these citizen requests because the average sleuther or citizen stalking them feels extremely creepy IMO. Would this be any kind of experts or ? I'm looking for a better reason.



Potentially news media reporters and authors.

I read that too and thought it was odd.. but then I thought maybe Criminal Justice courses taught throughout the world may be using this case as a teaching lesson. Kind of a hands on, as it’s happening kind of thing.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

And IMO, had he gone to a bar after work, I'm sure the friends would have brought up about how during those hangouts, CW spoke at great length about a potential separation, speaking of putting the house up for sale, etc. We saw these stories coming from CW already, per NUA and NT/AT interviews with MSM.

CW really did seem to be setting a stage for her walking out, IMO, and if he had more time, he likely would've been spreading that very story to anyone else who expressed concern over SW and the girls' whereabouts.

JMO.

It sure does seem like that could have been his plan, but in reality she would need money, and she loved her family in NC. How would he explain their forever absence? His plan may have worked for... 3 days. And no one goes anywhere without their purse or phone or child’s meds, so that plan may have worked for 3 minutes. LOL.

I still think he thought he had time to clean up and NUA derailed that.

But the big question to me is still whether he planned this for awhile or it all happened that night. I still lean toward that something triggered this that night and that’s why the sloppiness of his cleanup or lack thereof, and the lies to cover lies.

NUA drove her home. Would he plan to kill them knowing the driver may come inside? No.

And no matter what scheme I can think of, I cannot fathom a father dumping them as he did. Because I keep thinking that perhaps Bella passed away as the result of an unnoticed asthma attack under his less than careful watch that night. Hence his comment that B seemed to have been visibly deceased first.

SW returned home. He was asleep and had no idea anything had happened to B. She went ballistic, rightfully so. They fought physically and he wound up killing her, too. Not intentionally, but it was violent and it happened. But that leaves little CeCe and the idea that he took her life just because she may have witnessed him attacking the mom, and then he buried them all as he did... my theory struggles there. Maybe he felt he couldn’t go to the police but heck, if B did die from a natural cause an autopsy would show that. Would he have then killed CeCe because he rapidly figured out no one would believe him or she shouldn’t grow up knowing what had happened? Daddy didn’t watch out for my sister and then killed my Mommy?