Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #33

[MsBetsy]

An average four year old would have a hip measurement of 24 inches.

They seemed pretty tiny, although it's hard to tell, it's been so long. They all look smaller than I remember my daughter being. But wow, that's cutting it close.

 

[Gardener1850]

See photo for size of opening compared to AB’s face. It is 8” across.

It's no wonder the autopsy reports are taking so long. How many broken bones did they have to note and determine if the breaks were made postmortem by CW stuffing them through this little hole or if they were possibly broken bones contributing to the deaths?
And if CW had to break their ribs and shoulders (for example) to get them through that 8 inch hole, how easy would it be for the ME to tell the difference between those types of fractures and sternum fractures made during a normal attempt at of CPR? Hopefully the evidence is clear once the report is written up.

 

[MsBetsy]

The thing is I don't think he could simply lower them into the thief hole. It appears he had to work at getting them through the 8" diameter opening.

No, he would have to have jammed or forced them in somewhat. Maybe broken bones. Hard to know their measurements.

 

[cailleach]

It will be some time before we likely see the autopsy reports, but I think we need to brace ourselves as the reports are probably going to show some very serious damage to the bodies of those sweet little girls.

This is why the DA is asking to the court to keep them private until trial, IMO.

 

[Jennifer17]

They seemed pretty tiny, although it's hard to tell, it's been so long. They all look smaller than I remember my daughter being. But wow, that's cutting it close.

That is just average: there would be large variations on that, in fact, I would not be surprise if Cece was bigger around the hip than Bella. Bella seems to have lost her baby fat, but not Cece.

 

[MsBetsy]

It's no wonder the autopsy reports are taking so long. How many broken bones did they have to note and determine if the breaks were made postmortem by CW stuffing them through this little hole or if they were possibly broken bones contributing to the deaths?
And if CW had to break their ribs and shoulders (for example) to get them through that 8 inch hole, how easy would it be for the ME to tell the difference between those types of fractures and sternum fractures made during the normal attempt at of CPR? Hopefully the evidence is clear once the report is written up.

I wonder if he actually measured them beforehand. He had to have been pretty sure they would fit. He must have known their measurements.

 

[Johnny1181]

The thing is I don't think he could simply lower them into the thief hole. It appears he had to work at getting them through the 8" diameter opening.

Grateful this thread has turned to insightful theories.

It's a bit much for me, the gory details. Although very important details in assessing what CW did. imo

Hope all sleep well. And keep believing her. Shanann, she, her, "that woman".... I believe.

Sweet dreams or no dreams at all. Keep shining like Shanann.

And of course moo.

 

[MsBetsy]

It's no wonder the autopsy reports are taking so long. How many broken bones did they have to note and determine if the breaks were made postmortem by CW stuffing them through this little hole or if they were possibly broken bones contributing to the deaths?
And if CW had to break their ribs and shoulders (for example) to get them through that 8 inch hole, how easy would it be for the ME to tell the difference between those types of fractures and sternum fractures made during the normal attempt at of CPR? Hopefully the evidence is clear once the report is written up.

I wonder if he actually measured them beforehand. He had to have been pretty sure they would fit. He must have known their measurements.

 

[MassGuy]

All this talk about having to damage their bodies to make them fit (my speculation included), doesn’t really matter in the scheme of things.

If you can squeeze the necks of your children until they are dead, what does it matter if he harmed their bodies after death?

Killing them is a far worse act.

He literally watched the life slip from their eyes.

 

[katydid23]

delete dupe

 

[Jennifer17]

I wonder if he actually measured them beforehand. He had to have been pretty sure they would fit. He must have known their measurements.

Nah. Just sized them up out of the corner of his lying eyes.

 

[MassGuy]

Usually, we are able to see ALL of our VI's posts anytime we want. Usually we can click on somene's name, go to their profile page, and then click on posts. All of the posts will come up and you can click on each one, sorted by date.

But this is the first time that I have not been able to go back and check on a VI's past posts. For some reason, they seem to be locked down? I cannot see them anymore.

Use the search feature and type in their username. It’ll come up that way, I just checked.

 

[Jennifer17]

Usually, we are able to see ALL of our VI's posts anytime we want. Usually we can click on somene's name, go to their profile page, and then click on posts. All of the posts will come up and you can click on each one, sorted by date.

But this is the first time that I have not been able to go back and check on a VI's past posts. For some reason, they seem to be locked down? I cannot see them anymore.

What a surprise!

 

[Serena Angelique]

That is just average: there would be large variations on that, in fact, I would not be surprise if Cece was bigger around the hip than Bella. Bella seems to have lost her baby fat, but not Cece.

My guess is that they would have fit but they would have been mangled. My next guess is that they may have had bags over them so he wouldn’t have to see them and they appeared to just be trash.

I also wonder if that might appear to mimic strangulation as well? A head forced through a small opening? Horrifying to think but BOOM! Don’t tell me this just popped into his head in the wee small hours of the morning please!

 

[whisperOFwings]

I’m truly feeling despair tonight. I need off this roller coaster ride. Bless these angels. Omg

 

[gitana1]

She was not on the original mortgage . Was she added to the mortgage or only to the deed?

Were they married when they purchased the house? I am confused about that. If she got her assets after the marriage, wouldn’t it be considered part of marital assets ?

For the house in Colorado? I don't know and it wouldn't really matter. From what I can tell from Colorado law, if they were not married when the house was purchased then any increase in equity due to paying down the mortgage, would be considered marital property and subject to equitable division.

And any separate property contributions from either party would be reimbursable to that party before equity was divided.

It appears that, similar to CA law, if she received assets during the marriage that derived from a separate property source, like a house she owned before marriage but which sold after, those assets would remain her separate property unless they were "commingled".

Colorado is a separate property state apparently that goes by equitable division. But separate property acquired during marriage but from a source acquired prior to marriage, would remain the separate property of the person.

Like let's say a person was in an accident before marriage but didn't get proceeds from a lawsuit until during marriage, the proceeds would remain the property of the person who had the accident. Even if they received it during the marriage. From what I can tell. In Re Marriage of Fields

 

[katydid23]

All this talk about having to damage their bodies to make them fit (my speculation included), doesn’t really matter in the scheme of things.

If you can squeeze the necks of your children until they are dead, what does it matter if he harmed their bodies after death?

Killing them is a far worse act.

He literally watched the life slip from their eyes.

All true. But it takes a special someone, to be able to spend long hours, contorting and rearranging your child's corpse, one at a time, in order to cram them into an oil tank. Especially if you are then able to get up the next morning and host a press conference on your porch, looking like you are calm and well rested.

 

[MsBetsy]

All this talk about having to damage their bodies to make them fit (my speculation included), doesn’t really matter in the scheme of things.

If you can squeeze the necks of your children until they are dead, what does it matter if he harmed their bodies after death?

Killing them is a far worse act.

He literally watched the life slip from their eyes.

Yes, you're right, but it may help to show premeditation.

 

[gitana1]

"Light sweet crude oil" is what's most commonly traded and stored, so I'm assuming that's what we're talking about. It has a low density and flows at room temperature. It’s called sweet because it has a low sulfur content. If it has a higher sulfur content it’s sour crude oil. It’s called “light” because its density is lighter than water. It’s like good real maple syrup from Vermont, it’s thin but not too thin. It usually is a medium brown. Light sweet crude oil is what's usually distilled to make gasoline and petroleum distillates (like kerosene or industrial solvents).

Heavy crude and heavy sour crude are much denser and thicker. They are difficult to transport because of the high metal content and are much more expensive to distill. Whenever you hear about "the cost of oil" on the news they're usually referring to the benchmark price for light sweet crude oil in the US.

Light sweet crude is mostly processed into gasoline and distillates at refineries. Gasoline is a clear liquid that everyone’s familiar with at the gas station. It takes roughly twice as much crude oil to make each barrel of gasoline.

Thank you!! Lighter than water! Wow.

So they likely weren't covered in a tarry black type of substance? That's good to know. Poor lambs.

 

[MassGuy]

All true. But it takes a special someone, to be able to spend long hours, contorting and rearranging your child's corpse, one at a time, in order to cram them into an oil tank. Especially if you are then able to get up the next morning and host a press conference on your porch, looking like you are calm and well rested.

It takes a cold blooded killer to do all of those things. That’s why his scenario is so insane. Only a person who kills his family, could dispose of them in that way.