Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #36

[PommyMommy]

I didn’t include it because it’s the kind of paywall that requires a login with ID and password.
Weld - Disclaimer

Maybe they know me through internet cookies because they require me to login, but I don’t believe you can login as a guest. At minimum you have to go through the process. Once there you can lookup by reception no.

Thank you for the link. I see what you mean - I can't access the document.

I am just trying to understand why you think the Assignment of Deed of Trust may be related to foreclosure or bankruptcy and if you've seen the document. Can you clarify, please?
MOO

 

[human]

If his job was the one providing the family insurance wouldn't he need to keep her coverage at least until the birth of Nico?

Not if they were divorced. It is the insurance company that makes the rules. Not him. Not the judge. Not the company he works for. If they get divorced, someone has to pay COBRA. COBRA is the cost of his insurance that was what he received for the family. That is where the judge decides . Who pays what towards COBRA. And the deductibles and copays.

COBRA was a law that was made so people could keep their insurance while they searched for other insurance if they lost the job that provided insurance for them. COBRA used to be 18 months. Now it appears to be 36 months.

Of course when unemployed, it is difficult to pay those high premiums when you do not have a job.

 

[Ronso]

Maybe she didn't have any stds at that time.

Depends on which STD testing, too. They do a blood panel at the beginning of pregnancy, but they don't necessarily do a pelvic. I didn't have my pelvic til 19 weeks, and that's when I was tested for chlamydia, gonarrhea, and HPV. I don't think all this was over an STD.

 

[human]

Exactly. And most things said about him are the same sort of things I'd say about my neighbor who I wave to each morning, but I don't actually know much about. "He was quiet, he *seemed* like a good dad, they *seemed* to have the perfect marriage, he didn't socialize much, didn't have many girlfriends, etc." You're not seeing people coming out of the woodwork saying they hung out with him. It doesn't really seem like he had any friends outside of people he met through Shanann.

He had people he “talked “ with on his Twitter but who were they? Should have screen shot!

He went running with the neighbor so that was his friend. And what about the Lindstrom man who had the birthday party? He said CW was a great guy and was there to help with things.

In NC, the roommate said he did not socialize with them. More of a nose to the grindstone guy. Had goals and wanted to be good at what he did.

 

[Ronso]

He had people he “talked “ with on his Twitter but who were they? Should have screen shot!

He went running with the neighbor so that was his friend. And what about the Lindstrom man who had the birthday party? He said CW was a great guy and was there to help with things.

In NC, the roommate said he did not socialize with them. More of a nose to the grindstone guy. Had goals and wanted to be good at what he did.

The Lindstrom guy is a neighbor, though. My neighbor and I help each other out, but I can't tell you any significant things about her. I know her name. I know she has two daughters (whose names I don't recall). I know she has three cats. But other than that.... she seems nice. We have superficial conversations. I don't really KNOW her. Not in the way I know my friends, where I could tell you their favorite color, what they like to do for hobbies, and where they hang out on the weekends, etc And wasn't NT the husband of one of Shanann's friends? I know NT's wife A, sold Thrive.

 

[tmar]

I didn't speak to his confidence, really I meant more personality traits. He could be super confident and still not be personable or extroverted IMO. I think he didn't like that it was effortless for her

During those interviews, he appeared very 'bland', boring certainly not interesting.
Yes, he is telling fibs +++, his family are missing, and he is so dull.

 

[katydid23]

$3000 a month is a huge chunk of his income ($61k gross).

are we sure that his mortgage payment was 3000 a month?

 

[Marli61]

With so many dependents she would be able to get ObamaCare subsidies and pay very little, IMO. Remember Ocare disregards pre-existing conditions, rightfully and logically so. She would probably be paying little rent, no mortgage, few utilities and she would be better off financially and emotionally away from someone like CW who was into playing around instead of making a solid marriage with children.

Behind again...forgive if this has already been discussed.. CW most likely had excellent insurance with Anadarko that would have covered his whole family.

 

[tmar]

Well, I am not the person you were replying to, but IMO bankruptcy relief can't be just for rich people who exhibit risky business behaviors and don't think twice about 1 bankruptcy after another, constantly burning laborers, construction companies, etc. All of us overspend, most of America carries a lot of debt, and so did CW/SW.

Trump declared bankruptcy several times.

 

[searchinGirl]

I am just trying to understand why you think the Assignment of Deed of Trust may be related to foreclosure or bankruptcy and if you've seen the document. Can you clarify, please?
MOO

Timing. I don’t know exactly when the Watts filed banckruptcy, but it only makes sense to me that it’s related. Chase probably stepped up with a HELOC and agreed to help them on the condition that they be in a position to foreclose if need be.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

I probably did not word that properly, my apologies. Of course all bankruptcy is stressful, but with a good attorney, it does take some of the stress off. I can say the same for me, even though it was over 20 years ago, mine went very smoothly. All calls and letters go through the attorney, so any creditor calls, etc. You don't have to deal with anymore.

@BabyButterfly It appears to me that it has become too easy to declare bankruptcy these days.

 

[tmar]

Filing a chapter 7 myself, over a LOT of medical debt, was actually a relief to me. It wasn't stressful, whatsoever. The calls stopped, my debt was cleared, and I could rebuild my life. Bankruptcy doesn't always have to be a worrisome or stressful thing.

Also, in regards to secured credit. A secured credit card is one where you put the money on it. So, say I sign up for one... the limit is the amount of my choosing. So I put $500 towards it. Then, I can use that $500 I put down on it, and I am charged interest, just like any other credit card. The difference is, it's money I "loaded" onto the card, not freely given to me that I didn't have before. If that makes sense.

Are these like debit or savings cards: you put money into them, and then can withdraw this amount, when you choose.

 

[Ronso]

are we sure that his mortgage payment was 3000 a month?

I believe that was figured up as a 15 year mortgage, which is probably unlikely given the low down payment and FHA financing. I would place my bets on it being a 30 year mortgage. If he got the 3.5% interest rate, and financed the home at $397,000, his mortgage on a 30 year before insurance/taxes would be $1783/mo. If I had to wager, factoring in the insurance and taxes, the monthly payment was in the $2000-2500 range.

 

[Thepoet]

He had people he “talked “ with on his Twitter but who were they? Should have screen shot!

He went running with the neighbor so that was his friend. And what about the Lindstrom man who had the birthday party? He said CW was a great guy and was there to help with things.

In NC, the roommate said he did not socialize with them. More of a nose to the grindstone guy. Had goals and wanted to be good at what he did.

In regards to running; I used to run regularly, mostly alone. I've known people who ran with spouses, best friends, friends, etc. I've also known a lot of people who ran with people, who ran like them: similar pace, distance. goals, etc. So, the neighbor may have been a friend or merely a running companion.

 

[Ronso]

Are these like debit or savings cards: you put money into them, and then can withdraw this amount, when you choose.

Sort of. Except you pay interest on what you withdraw like you would on a regular credit card, and they report to credit agencies as such. So, not like a prepaid VISA, but a secured line of credit.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

I believe they received a car bonus whenever they hit a goal. Shanann worked very hard and was good at her job.

I don't have a link to support this, but it was discussed many times here earlier on that she received about $800/month toward the leased Lexus SUV that was in her name and if she didn't meet a certain sales requirement, they (LeVel) didn't pay her the $800 toward the leased vehicle that month. In one video, she said she only missed earning that payment 2 months out of 24, I think. To me, that's an enormous car payment (even though she did say she had extra toward gas and repairs). Why not drive a $250/month car! Such stress to keep such a status vehicle.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Secured credit is a credit card from a bank. You deposit a set amount, say $500.00. then that is your limit. You must pay it monthly, and no going over, obviously. If you do good, you can add more, and after time, you will get your deposit back. Usually, it takes about a year to get your deposit back, and have an unsecured account.

Thanks @BabyButterfly

 

[Best of What's Around]

Not if they were divorced. It is the insurance company that makes the rules. Not him. Not the judge. Not the company he works for. If they get divorced, someone has to pay COBRA. COBRA is the cost of his insurance that was what he received for the family. That is where the judge decides . Who pays what towards COBRA. And the deductibles and copays.

COBRA was a law that was made so people could keep their insurance while they searched for other insurance if they lost the job that provided insurance for them. COBRA used to be 18 months. Now it appears to be 36 months.

Of course when unemployed, it is difficult to pay those high premiums when you do not have a job.

I am confused. I do not understand the relevance to the case. I thought his contention was that she flipped out because he said he wanted to definitely separate. I did not hear divorce. Divorce may or may not come as a result of a separation. It takes a lot of time to complete a divorce. I do not see where he presented her with divorce papers nor even moved his things out of the house...so how would a fear a losing insurance way down the road possibly after a separation that has not even happened (just a short conversation in the middle of the night) yet be a motive for her to flip and murder her children? Or is there another reason we are going down this rabbit hole? Sorry, not being snarky, I just truly do not understand and there has been quite a bit of discussion about it.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Yes the one they went through.

@BabyButterfly Do you know if SW and CW were headed in the same direction as before with another bankruptcy looming?

 

[Lady Justice21]

I'm just so curious what type of defense the defense team can even put on. If it's motive and they stick with CW killed SW because she killed their daughters - well, that's his motive. If they decide that story is stupid because of how unlikely it would be that he would kill his wife in the same exact manner that she killed their daughters and then staged an elaborate cover up and disposal of bodies and fake worry news interviews, then hopefully there is enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he did in fact murder the girls. He already confessed to killing SW.

I am not an attorney, but will any other factors like finances or social media or MLM matter in terms of being able to get a conviction? Those may be contributing factors as to the "why" - but do they add up to evidence? Is introducing reasons "why" CW may have done this enough to win a case? I still can't believe any juror would believe SW went into a rage and killed both kids and CW reacted by killing her. If he felt the slightest bit remorseful over what he has done to his family, he should spare her family the pain, confess to the truth, and spare everyone a charade of innocence. I get he is entitled to due process and a legal defense, but it is infuriating if he is blaming HIS crime as his VICTIM'S doing!

ETA: I guess what I am ultimately trying to say is:
- If CW says he killed SW because she was killing the kids - no other factors are coming into play. It was because he claims he saw her doing this.
- If this was not the reason why, and it was because - pick a reason - she was annoying, on SM all the time, he had a new love interest, he wanted a fresh start, debt, her MLM life was taking over - well, none of those are acceptable reasons for murder. It doesn't really matter why he killed her or what else was going on in their lives. It's a crime. Isn't that enough? Those aren't extenuating circumstances.

IMO CW boxed himself in to quite the corner. His defense team certainly seems limited. They can run with his story SW killed the kids, or they can go with something along the lines of Thrive made me do it. IMO there is no someone else must have done it, I have an alibi, blah blah.

IMO even IF the defense has a mountain of evidence they were drowning in debt or SW was abusive, that won't get a NG. Motive doesn't get you NG IMO. Even IF they can paint he's a victim of abuse that's not enough for a NG. Defense of self or others wouldn't save him in this overall scenario. I personally don't see how they have an option to do anything other than stick with the original story or come up with a Thrive/twinkle defense.

 

[MassGuy]

I am confused. I do not understand the relevance to the case. I thought his contention was that she flipped out because he said he wanted to definitely separate. I did not hear divorce. Divorce may or may not come as a result of a separation. It takes a lot of time to complete a divorce. I do not see where he presented her with divorce papers nor even moved his things out of the house...so how would a fear a losing insurance way down the road possibly after a separation that has not even happened (just a short conversation in the middle of the night) yet be a motive for her to flip and murder her children? Or is there another reason we are going down this rabbit hole? Sorry, not being snarky, I just truly do not understand and there has been quite a bit of discussion about it.

You beat me to the punch here. A separation is not a divorce, and a divorce takes time.

The insurance details only would have become relavant if they reached the point of divorce, which would have been many months down the road.