Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

[mtnlites]

IF all three were killed by strangulation, I find it very odd. Not only is strangling very personal, and usually a product of anger, but it takes a while to finish it. "Snapping" in a rage and strangling one person seems believable, but how do you account for the other two? It seems like, after that first one, the rage or anger should have subsided. Of course, I also don't buy that two separate individuals killed family members in the same night in the same way so there's that.

 

[Layla123]

I don't agree with this. Those two are showboaters.

But this defense team? I think they are simply litigating hard and in the middle of it. They sure well know that the state's motion is to protect the state's case and not really to protect the defendant's rights. (They want to make sure they don't get the kind of jury who wouldn't be horrified by the autopsy results).

And they feel confident that the state either knew about, encouraged or looked the other way when stuff was leaked that hurt the defendant. Like "there is no evidence to suggest anything other than that CW murdered his family." Or something to that effect.

If the Watts family is able to get some fancy private defense counsel in to take over THEN you're going to see some real showboating, IMO.

But for now I just see defense counsel steadily working their case hard and doing what they can to preserve his rights, plant doubt and cast their client as a victim to be pitied.

In retrospect the only mistake they have made thus far is in showing their hand and revealing exactly the extent of what the defense is going to be, wellllllll in advance of trial, enabling the state to prepare thoroughly and line up all their witnesses and evidence to refute it.

In fact, I may be kind of flipping on that. At first I thought all those gossipy rumors we've seen spread across the Internet in an attempt to sully the reputation of the deceased victim, were encouraged by the defense team.

Oh I'm very confident that the precious "leak" about it all finally "hitting" CW in jail -a brilliant little leak meant to tidily explain away his utter lack of grief as he gave those damning pitch interviews- but all that other stuff? Sly insinuations about her mental health and moral character, abuse, etc.?

Well listen, in retrospect I now see that as strategic suicide. It was so stupid. Because now the state has months and years to gather evidence and witnesses to refute that nonsense. To address it. Put anything into perspective. Really the only time that kind of defense gets any sort of foothold is when it's by surprise at trial.

And looking at how well the defense has done this far, strategic suicide like that doesn't seem in keeping with their work to date.

So I'm rethinking who is responsible for the strategy behind leaking that "info".

Dire mistake for the defense.

But there is no evidence to suggest anything other than C.W. murdered his family, and I haven’t seen the Defense do anything but annoy the Court by filing frivolous motions that end up getting denied. I don’t understand why you’re so enamored by the Defense. And all these leaks, they’re so vague, I could have leaked them! Of course, the Prosecution has all the texts between C.W. and SW. They took her phone. Of course CW is depressed in jail, who wouldn’t be? So what if he has a Bible? Who says he’s reading it? And don’t forget Elizabeth Smart’s kidnapper read the Bible every day. As for the AP? It’s pretty obvious she’s cooperating with the police because she hasn’t been arrested. I want some real leaks! And I’m very disappointed that there haven’t been any in this case!

 

[Thepoet]

My thoughts are strangulation was likely involved for all three, but I think there may be other, and perhaps significant injures to SW. I base that on the statement in the affidavit that he "ultimately" strangled Shanann to death.

JMO

Good catch, but OMG! Awful to think about!

 

[WildWest]

Right? How relevant can that long passed “dark place”, be? By her account, this occurred at the time of her diagnosis and divorce. - In many instances, once a person gets a diagnosis and a treatment plan to manage their illness-they gain hope. Which translates to a better mental state. Up until the diagnosis, they feel awful, and with no explanation, feel hopeless, overwhelmed, depressed.

What is more relevant (to me anyway) is how excited she was about the addition of Nico. How much she loved her family. That she found joy and empowerment with her business. That she had a huge team of people who cared (tremendously!) for her. That she put her whole life out there. She didn’t seem to have much to hide.

Sure, she gave her videos a positive spin, but this is not equivalent to CW who wiped his social media so it couldn’t be scrutinized, or who wiped out his family.

Do we even know if she was treated for depression? She uses the term "OCD" in jest like many do and could be the same with her saying depressed. Also, many many many many people are treated for depression when they become ill (SLE) when infact they are not depressed but sick. I was having trouble getting through a work day and hair falling out like crazy, others immediately assumed depressed/stressed out. NOPE, just sick. That on top of her going through/getting over a failed marriage. IDK, her using the terms depression and dark place do not mean she was clinically depressed, as well as your right, it was a long time ago and *IF* she was clinically depressed she obviously recovered quite well from it.

 

[Mrspratcher]

Think about - even Manson got married in prison. Some people are just cuckoo for criminals.

And the Menendez brothers!

 

[MyBelle]

Right? How relevant can that long passed “dark place”, be? By her account, this occurred at the time of her diagnosis and divorce. - In many instances, once a person gets a diagnosis and a treatment plan to manage their illness-they gain hope. Which translates to a better mental state. Up until the diagnosis, they feel awful, and with no explanation, feel hopeless, overwhelmed, depressed.

What is more relevant (to me anyway) is how excited she was about the addition of Nico. How much she loved her family. That she found joy and empowerment with her business. That she had a huge team of people who cared (tremendously!) for her. That she put her whole life out there. She didn’t seem to have much to hide.

Sure, she gave her videos a positive spin, but this is not equivalent to CW who wiped his social media so it couldn’t be scrutinized, or who wiped out his family.

Actually, SW said the "darkest" time for her came AFTER her diagnosis and I think it is relevant because usually a diagnosis does lead to treatment and hope. Instead, for SW, she quit her long-time job, lost friends and "was in a really, really, really bad place" and I assume she means emotionally. Then she got a friend request from CW.
JMO

Shanann Watts Met Husband Chris Online During Dark Period 8 Years Before Murder: 'He Is Amazing'

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Okay so suspending disbelief momentarily for a hypothetical. If IF CW's story were true, should he not be allowed to tell his story simply because SW is now dead? Should he be barred from using his defense because it's distasteful?

If so, why? Should he be expected to "protect" her good name and just take the fall for it all?

Again, suspending disbelief.... Should he not be allowed to tell his story even if it were true?

Sure he can.

He can tell it through his lawyer

or his father

or his mother

or his sibling

or somebody else that he chooses to.

He can do it now, or he can stand up in court and do it. I'm not following why you think he cannot get his message out.

 

[Charlot123]

How do you think a depressive illness before she even met him would affect the case?
Many, many people have depression after a marriage breakdown. Not many of them murder their children and somehow force their husbands to drop them in crude oil.

Even if SW had depression during this episode, it should not affect the case. Because depression is very common, numbers vary but in each given 2-weeks there are about 10% of depressed people, at least. However, killing the kids is not a typical behavior for a depressed person. We have to Google long and hard to make an adequate list of mothers with "just" depression who kill their offsprings. In each such case, an element of psychosis should be expected. And early pregnancy should not change the odds. Statistics would work agaist such defense.

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

Has anyone other than me thought that maybe the AP was the one who first come forward to LE and triggered them to CW/site location, etc?. I have always wondered if something within a conversation she/he? & CW had at some point didn’t lead the AP to immediately come forward once SW/BW/CCW were reported missing. Adding things up on timing of acknowledging an AP (which he did not come forward with until presented with it)... a work location etc.. I know NUA is praised as the hero in this, but I wonder if the AP is not also a hero in bringing this out quickly...
( I’m giving her a “bye” on having the afair, that’s not my business).... she is the #1 person I’m waiting to hear from.

If I was in her position I would feel like a part of that crime (I do not believe that the AP knew that he would kill his entire family and I do not blame them for anything CW did to his wife and his girls - just to make it clear!!). I would feel ashamed and I would fear that as soon as other people learned I was having an affair with him I could be supsected to be an accomplice. In my case I would have probably come forward just to have the chance to make things clear before it is too late. On the other hand: If I had a family (husband and perhaps even children on my own) I would probably have had a lot of sleepless nights and would not wan't them to find out because I would fear that this could destroy my own family as well. Either way for me it would be the worst scenario to be connected to such a person in any way. I do not believe that this is easy to deal with. So at the moment I'm not sure what to think about this...

But what I know is: Cheating s**** - especially if there are (little) children involved.

 

[Thepoet]

Right? How relevant can that long passed “dark place”, be? By her account, this occurred at the time of her diagnosis and divorce. - In many instances, once a person gets a diagnosis and a treatment plan to manage their illness-they gain hope. Which translates to a better mental state. Up until the diagnosis, they feel awful, and with no explanation, feel hopeless, overwhelmed, depressed.

What is more relevant (to me anyway) is how excited she was about the addition of Nico. How much she loved her family. That she found joy and empowerment with her business. That she had a huge team of people who cared (tremendously!) for her. That she put her whole life out there. She didn’t seem to have much to hide.

Sure, she gave her videos a positive spin, but this is not equivalent to CW who wiped his social media so it couldn’t be scrutinized, or who wiped out his family.

We don't know what this "dark place" was that she was in, but despite being there, she worked, improved her life, and bought a house (the one in NC) by herself. She was a survivor and a fighter! The history that we have of her shows someone who built things; her life, her family, friendships, her business! She was a builder, not a destroyer! What is he? Lies and adultery destroy, not build!

 

[Amonet]

Okay so suspending disbelief momentarily for a hypothetical. If IF CW's story were true, should he not be allowed to tell his story simply because SW is now dead? Should he be barred from using his defense because it's distasteful?

If so, why? Should he be expected to "protect" her good name and just take the fall for it all?

Again, suspending disbelief.... Should he not be allowed to tell his story even if it were true?

If his story is true, then his immediate reaction was rage against SW and not thoughts of protecting her from an out-of-character act that was precipitated by him asking for a separation.

I would think that thoughts of trying to save the lives of the children (and Nico) by calling 911 would take precedence over any other thoughts. We've heard so many examples of that happening in other cases where people didn't care about anyone's reputation, they cared about trying to revive their children.

After calling 911 and seeing his wife, the mother of his children, taken away in handcuffs, or in the back of an ambulance if he'd hurt her in his attempts to subdue her and get her away from the children, then I can imagine that a protective instinct 'might' kick in, and say she died as a result of him subduing her, then maybe he'd really want it put out that she had a psychotic break as a result of his news and this was out of character and he wanted her remembered as a loving wife and mother. Nothing about what he's done, said in media interviews, or said in the parts of confession that are in the affidavit suggests anything like this was happening in his head. And, I would also say that I don't think there's any reason someone ought to feel that protective instinct for the murderer spouse after such a horrific thing...if they did I would try to understand, if they didn't then I wouldn't blame them.

And if CW had called 911 and I'd read this story and he'd never done the media interviews to do fake pleas for his family, my initial feeling would be one of massive sympathy for him. I could easily be hoping for him to not get life imprisonment as a result. But he said in one of the media interviews that his children were his life....once they were dead, what was his life? Sadly, some parents wouldn't be able to care too much about the outcome of a trial after losing the children that were their life...life in prison vs life outside, it might not seem to make a lot of difference to them. I don't think that would be their first thought, though, I think the first thought would be "call 911 fast!" Then, when talking to LE about what happened it would probably enter their head that they might be arrested. I suppose some might think, "no, this is wrong and unfair as I'm telling the truth and even though I failed, I have to organize funerals and all sorts of things that I don't want to do but they have to be done". And some might just allow themselves to be led off and struggle to have the will to fight for themselves. CW doesn't seem to be in either category. Maybe there are other categories, and maybe it's because he killed them all and was only ever thinking about getting away with it.

I'm sorry to reiterate this, but everything he did from the second he decided to not call 911 is indicative to me that he was only ever thinking about how to get away with the murder of his entire nuclear family.

 

[flourish]

Sure he can.

He can tell it through his lawyer

or his father

or his mother

or his sibling

or somebody else that he chooses to.

He can do it now, or he can stand up in court and do it. I'm not following why you think he cannot get his message out.

Not that he can't get the message out, but there seem to be some who think his stating that SW killed the girls shouldn't even be allowed and/or is or should be a crime in itself.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Not that he can't get the message out, but there seem to be some who think his stating that SW killed the girls shouldn't even be allowed and/or is or should be a crime in itself.

Given that everything he has said so far has been lies, I can understand that point of view. Why should he be allowed to slander SW?

 

[whisperOFwings]

He had a PANIC BUTTON on the alarm system. He could have pushed that button in a split second.

And he didn't have to watch her kill...he was much stronger than she was. He could have thrown her out of the room, and then begun CPR, and screamed loud for help from neighbors. He could have knocked her out, and called 911, or any number of other options.

With the close proximity of the neighbors’ houses, driveways, and yards it amazes me that no one heard anything except for the barking dog. Or even in the past, arguments, fighting, yelling etc. They must be well insulated homes.

Bolded by me...
A Police Officer was on our local news, about safety tips.
One of the tips were, if you can't afford a security system, use your car key alarm button.
If someone is/has breaking into your house. Or if some emergency is happening in your house, push the car alarm button on your keychain.
Your car alarm will go off, the perp will get spooked and run away or the neighbors will hear it.
I wish more people knew about this.

 

[Seattle1]

I can't find it now but this morning I read an article that stated the home was in only CW name however per assessor it's in both names.
Property Report

Account Parcel Space Account Type Tax Year Buildings Actual Value Assessed Value
R4040906 131333414006 Residential 2018 1 484,339 34,870

Account
Owner Name
Address
R4040906 WATTS CHRISTOPHER LEE 2825 SARATOGA TRL FREDERICK, CO 805162600
R4040906 WATTS SHANANN

Mortgage was obtained in CW name, but property titled in both names. Many pages and threads on this matter...

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don't agree with this. Those two are showboaters.

But this defense team? I think they are simply litigating hard and in the middle of it. They sure well know that the state's motion is to protect the state's case and not really to protect the defendant's rights. (They want to make sure they don't get the kind of jury who wouldn't be horrified by the autopsy results).

And they feel confident that the state either knew about, encouraged or looked the other way when stuff was leaked that hurt the defendant. Like "there is no evidence to suggest anything other than that CW murdered his family." Or something to that effect.

If the Watts family is able to get some fancy private defense counsel in to take over THEN you're going to see some real showboating, IMO.

But for now I just see defense counsel steadily working their case hard and doing what they can to preserve his rights, plant doubt and cast their client as a victim to be pitied.

In retrospect the only mistake they have made thus far is in showing their hand and revealing exactly the extent of what the defense is going to be, wellllllll in advance of trial, enabling the state to prepare thoroughly and line up all their witnesses and evidence to refute it.

In fact, I may be kind of flipping on that. At first I thought all those gossipy rumors we've seen spread across the Internet in an attempt to sully the reputation of the deceased victim, were encouraged by the defense team.

Oh I'm very confident that the precious "leak" about it all finally "hitting" CW in jail -a brilliant little leak meant to tidily explain away his utter lack of grief as he gave those damning pitch interviews- but all that other stuff? Sly insinuations about her mental health and moral character, abuse, etc.?

Well listen, in retrospect I now see that as strategic suicide. It was so stupid. Because now the state has months and years to gather evidence and witnesses to refute that nonsense. To address it. Put anything into perspective. Really the only time that kind of defense gets any sort of foothold is when it's by surprise at trial.

And looking at how well the defense has done this far, strategic suicide like that doesn't seem in keeping with their work to date.

So I'm rethinking who is responsible for the strategy behind leaking that "info".

Dire mistake for the defense.

When I was in upper level courses, one class was specifically to take on a corporate situation, and to give input to the corporation itself! Each and every one of us had to give a separate presentation in case study for the corporation. I don't know how they did that, but that's what happened. Anyway I digress.

Do law schools ever have professors or anyone else that is associated with a university or law school submit to the students to do projects or case studies, to either follow cases, or to write up stuff for the defense? And actually submit it to them .

I wonder if that is ever made public if that does happen.

I just assumed it does if it happens for corporations? But then again the corporation's probably gave a stipend to the university to do such and I don't know if the public defender's office could do such.

 

[flourish]

Given that everything he has said so far has been lies, I can understand that point of view. Why should he be allowed to slander SW?

My entire question began with the premise he is telling the truth.

Hypothetically, let's say she killed the girls and was screaming at him that nobody would ever believe him and he'd spend the rest of his life in prison, he snaps and kills her and covers it up, believing her that nobody would believe him.

Is he not supposed to tell the truth (that hypothetical truth) because it's distasteful or puts her in a bad light?

It's only an abhorrent defense if it isn't true.

 

[Thepoet]

Not that he can't get the message out, but there seem to be some who think his stating that SW killed the girls shouldn't even be allowed and/or is or should be a crime in itself.

I think most here believe his statement was self-serving and merely to mitigate legal consequences he was facing. I've read a lot of posters here who have stated they'd be more open to his statement if he had tried to help the girls (call 911) and if he hadn't put their little bodies in the dark, viscous oil tanks. It's not his statement, it's his actions!

 

[Seattle1]

I can't find it now but this morning I read an article that stated the home was in only CW name however per assessor it's in both names.
Property Report

Account Parcel Space Account Type Tax Year Buildings Actual Value Assessed Value
R4040906 131333414006 Residential 2018 1 484,339 34,870

Account
Owner Name
Address
R4040906 WATTS CHRISTOPHER LEE 2825 SARATOGA TRL FREDERICK, CO 805162600
R4040906 WATTS SHANANN

That's a 411..

 

[Best of What's Around]

Not that he can't get the message out, but there seem to be some who think his stating that SW killed the girls shouldn't even be allowed and/or is or should be a crime in itself.

I don't mind speculation and exploring scenarios, myself, but if there is no evidence for them and they malign the victim, I personally respect when someone couches their speculation with a reminder there is no real evidence for it right now. And if they were my speculation, I would be prepared for evidence to be pointed out to the contrary to me by others. IMO