Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

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  • #1,041
The kind who has a shadow personality and has never really made his own decisions because he's never had real "agency" since you need an actual identity to have that.

Someone who is always living someone else's life and who has to pretend he likes it but can't possibly like what he didn't really choose.

Someone who envies the bright, happy spark who never seems to feel the quiet sense of unease and frustration that he does or that feeling of otherness and never belonging, because how can a shadow person who wears a mask, ever really belong?

They pick women who are everything they're not. Happy. Social. Connected. Outgoing.

And then they grow to hate that woman who is everything they can never authentically be.

My non-professional theory at the moment.

Aaargh, I cannot find that dancing video. Does anyone have a link?
BBM:
"That post never left me. I have seen the video two or three times but his face, his body language never left me. He was watching her. Observing. Judging. IMO."
That is so ominous -- like a predator stalking its prey, almost lazily. Enjoying the hunt.
MOO: this guy CW was so seething with rage. If he goes on trial and takes the stand I hope the prosecution provokes him into losing his temper in front of the jurors, and showing his true colors. Like Jodi Arias did, when she gave the judge the "finger" in such a passive-aggressive way and then pretended to furiously color-in her lame drawings with a stubby pencil..

I don't know if this is the video in question, but it seems to match. He seems to be standing in the background. Seemingly engaging with the group. Looks over at SW a couple times. Silently "watching."

 
  • #1,042
BBM
If he didn't feel anything for anyone, why would it be different with the AP?

It wouldn't have been but his life would be different. It is all about him and what he wants, not the other person. He may feel things such as lust, the thrill of having power and control, and may enjoy certain people if they make him feel superior, intelligent, or add something to his life (financial improvement, social status, etc.) but his feelings are not about the other person. He lacks empathy and the ability to put himself in the other person's shoes. I've concluded this mainly from his interviews and what he said about his girls. But I should add the disclaimer I'm not a professional and very well could be wrong about all of this. JMO.
 
  • #1,043
Interesting. I wonder about CW's childhood.

It was mentioned in one of Shanann's videos that she used a sleep training method for the girls, maybe smartbaby?
I want to know about his childhood as well.
 
  • #1,044
AB 10/10/19
1. Neighbor’s camera captured C.W. leaving his house the morning that the family was reported missing. A source close to the case revealed the neighbor moved the position of that camera right before the murders happened. If he hadn’t, none of it would have been captured. Wasn’t the only person on the block with doorbell camera. Others turned in footage from their cameras.
2. CW’s movements may have been monitored from the moment his family was reported missing by work truck.
3. AB played video of SW reporting her life was lousy until it wasn’t. Couldn’t afford their dream honeymoon in Cancun, but since joining Le-Vel they were able to earn free trips to New Orleans and Punta Cana. Able to earn money while away from home, able to travel with her husband and kids. Defense Attorney, Joey Jackson says this video speaks volumes for the prosecution. This is about a husband who abused the love, the trust, the respect, and the entirety of the relationship from a woman who loved him so, so much.
2. Is there a way around the hearsay rules, so SW can be alive and living in that courtroom for the jury to see? Former Prosecutor, Randy Zelin explains absolutely, because the hallmark of hearsay is that this piece of evidence is being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. Doesn’t matter if her feelings about C.W. and kids are truthful or not, videos will serve to portray SW’s state of mind. SW’s state of mind is critical because C.W. has made it critical by alleging that she is responsible for the children’s deaths. His own confession ultimately may end up being his undoing not once, but twice. CW opened the door for the hearsay exception because he’s the one accusing SW of murder.
3. SW posted 82 videos in the 6 months leading up to her death. Tapered off near the end, many say this shows maybe what the relationship was like, but in some of her videos you really get to see how she felt about those little girls. If he’s accusing her of murdering her children, he’s going to have a hard time convincing a jury after they see the video where SW talks about not letting anyone come between “you and your goals, and what you’re building, your dreams, your foundation, and that’s what I’m building for my girls right now. I don’t want my girls to grow up like I did...I want my girls to take on the world, and I don’t want anything to stop them.” This sounds like a woman who wants the best for her children. In next video SW makes clear she wants the girls’ lives to be rich and full. AB shows vision board video where Bella repeats after SW, “I am blessed, I am healthy, I am confident, I am perfect,” etc.. Zelin says when you’re sitting there at that Defense table, on trial, and that video is played, it’s a sphincter tightening moment, where you realize maybe if C.W. is lucky he’ll come out feet first, but at a very, very old age. AB shows another video where SW talks about always living for other people until she started living for herself and her family, her kids. She doesn’t have to prove anything to anyone but her kids and herself. That’s all that matters. SW lives for her kids. Zelin says the jury, during trial, watching these videos are going to feel insult and disgust. They’re going to think how dare this defendant pin this horrific, unbelievable, indescribable tragedy on this woman. AB played video that SW took of C.W., without him knowing, of him singing hot dog, hot diggety dog, with caption, #HesGoingToKillMe. This is so prejudicial against CW.. Zelin says if the videos are coming in, they’re coming in. Every piece of evidence against a defendant is prejudicial, but for probative value, they are relevant. Because of his confession, it’s coming in.
3. Can SW’s videos work in CW’s favor? Defense Attorney, Rene Sandler, explains, if the Defense wants to use those videos, it needs to fit like a glove, like a piece in a puzzle, in order to be successful. They can backfire terribly, so the Defense must have a cogent strategy, otherwise, it’s going to backfire. AB shows video where Shanann talks about CW being the best thing besides her children that ever happened to her, she couldn’t have asked God for a better man in her life. CW is the best father she could have asked for for her children. Sandler says the videos can work in CW’s favor, they cut both ways, and she disagrees with previous guest about hearsay. If the Defense uses the video where SW praises him as a great dad, they open the door across the board. They have to be carefully strategic in weaving their defense. Sandler would have SW’s videos analyzed by a psychological expert to see if there are any nuggets whatsoever that can be used to help the defense. AB shows video where SW shows that she is close to a breaking point. Both girls, in red and white striped tees, are crying and fighting. AB says SW is the most patient mother she’s ever seen, but some people could twist that. Sandler says looking at SW’s face and body language in that video compared to others, it does show somebody that’s more tense in that moment. She would have an expert analyze these videos and to look professionally for anything the Defense could pull out to use to support their client. AB shows another video, the outdoor checker game where SW says, “Bring the baby before he’s a toddler and I don’t want him anymore.” That can be twisted, but it could blow back very hard against the defendant if they’re not careful. So all of the videos need to be viewed in their entirety by a professional to assist in a strategic presentation of evidence. Strategic game playing in court can be so ugly.
4. AB shows video where Bella thinks SW has 5 babies in her tummy. There was just one, Nico, but he didn’t make it.
 
  • #1,045
Just a side note, interesting that CW killed his family, as far as we know, without access to the autopsy results, he strangled his wife and daughters.

<modsnip - unnecessary comment about guns and irrelevant in this case>

Why Ordinary People Murder Their Families

This article is interesting, it notes that Social Isolation is common among Family Annihilators, they moved, often 1000's miles away from family, to make a "fresh start". And could also, be part of isolating the wives, from friends, family members for more control.
 
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  • #1,046
BBM
If he didn't feel anything for anyone, why would it be different with the AP?
It's not different with the A/P. Defective people like CW merely use the people around them for their own purposes. It could be a sexual attraction, it could be status and income that he feels will come to him by association, it could be that being with her was a type of silent revenge on SW, it could be a myriad of things. What we do know is it not love in any real sense of what most people experience.
 
  • #1,047
She was batship borderline though. They express rage pretty easily. The family annihilators don't though. They're terrified of being unmasked and showing true, negative emotion.

So they're very adept at hiding it.

I predict we won't see a lick of anger from CW. Only feigned tears a la Neil Entwistle whose pretend sobbing at trial looked exactly like actual, gleeful laughing.

Neil Entwistle makes final appeal to Supreme Court


That is absolutely sinister. If you hadn’t said he was supposed to be crying, I’d swear he was laughing.
 
  • #1,048
She was batship borderline though. They express rage pretty easily. The family annihilators don't though. They're terrified of being unmasked and showing true, negative emotion.

So they're very adept at hiding it.

I predict we won't see a lick of anger from CW. Only feigned tears a la Neil Entwistle whose pretend sobbing at trial looked exactly like actual, gleeful laughing.

Neil Entwistle makes final appeal to Supreme Court

OH good grief - he DOES look as though he's laughing.:eek:
 
  • #1,049
BBM
If he didn't feel anything for anyone, why would it be different with the AP?

I believe CW was able to get what he wanted by being calculating. He had his eyes set on SW, and was able to win her over. He didn't need the ability to truly feel love in order to do that. He just had to say the right things at the right times. If CW had ended up with the AP in some alternate universe, I think his dreams would have come crashing down in one way or another due to no one's fault but his own. CW only cares about CW, and IMO, he would have been bound to a vicious cycle no matter whom he ended up with. Jmo
 
  • #1,050
  • #1,051
I don't know if this is the video in question, but it seems to match. He seems to be standing in the background. Seemingly engaging with the group. Looks over at SW a couple times. Silently "watching."

I hadn't seen this video. Thanks for posting it. IMO he, yet again, looks like he's not saying much, not really engaging with the group of people, standing back a bit, and looks awkward/uncomfortable. A little off subject but I also wonder if he ever just cracked up laughing; where your stomach hurts from laughing so much. It seems like he never got mad about anything but also never really laughed. IMO
 
  • #1,052
The following is my amateur armchair analysis/theory of CW's mind (I believe he is a sociopath):
I don't think he ever loved them or ever knew what real love was. He may have done things that seemed normal and "loving" but he may have been parroting what he thought he should say his whole life. Copying movies and what he observed others do without any genuine emotions of his own. I don't think he hated them because I think he was unable to feel anything that deeply. I don't think he viewed them as separate humans from himself with their own agency-- he saw them only as accessories, objects that he helped create (and thought he had a right to destroy). When he decided he wanted to stop being a father and husband and focus on his APs he saw no way to make that happen with divorce or separation. SW, Bella, Cece & Nico would still exist and get in his way of real freedom in his mind. In order to be free of them, he concluded he had to murder them. I don't know when he decided it but it may have been something he considered off and on for a while before actually do it. I don't think we will ever truly get a "why" answer. Even if he tells us a "why" it will be incomprehensible to us. JMO.

I've been reading through so many really great comments tonight. I don't think it would have mattered at all what type of personality the wife of CW might have had. If his wife had been shy, an introvert and rarely posted on social media, I don't feel anything would have changed. I believe he would have annihilated any family he had if the circumstances were right. He met someone else he wanted to spend his life with and regardless of who his wife was or how many children he had, I believe the results would have been the same. There is something vital missing in men like him. Unfortunately, SW never had a chance. I don't believe any woman would have had a chance, regardless of their personality and extenuating circumstances. All the fault was in him, IMO, and no woman would have survived, long term. JMO.
 
  • #1,053
Just a side note, interesting that CW killed his family, as far as we know, without access to the autopsy results, he strangled his wife and daughters.

<modsnip - unnecessary comment about guns and irrelevant in this case>

Why Ordinary People Murder Their Families

This article is interesting, it notes that Social Isolation is common among Family Annihilators, they moved, often 10
<modsnip - snipped reply to snipped part of quoted post>

Yes, FAs appear to not have a strong and deep social network of their own. I am guessing this is consistent with sociopathy? Are sociopaths more likely to have shallower relationships? I am guessing yes.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #1,054
AB 10/10/19
1. Neighbor’s camera captured C.W. leaving his house the morning that the family was reported missing. A source close to the case revealed the neighbor moved the position of that camera right before the murders happened. If he hadn’t, none of it would have been captured. Wasn’t the only person on the block with doorbell camera. Others turned in footage from their cameras.
2. CW’s movements may have been monitored from the moment his family was reported missing by work truck.
3. AB played video of SW reporting her life was lousy until it wasn’t. Couldn’t afford their dream honeymoon in Cancun, but since joining Le-Vel they were able to earn free trips to New Orleans and Punta Cana. Able to earn money while away from home, able to travel with her husband and kids. Defense Attorney, Joey Jackson says this video speaks volumes for the prosecution. This is about a husband who abused the love, the trust, the respect, and the entirety of the relationship from a woman who loved him so, so much.
2. Is there a way around the hearsay rules, so SW can be alive and living in that courtroom for the jury to see? Former Prosecutor, Randy Zelin explains absolutely, because the hallmark of hearsay is that this piece of evidence is being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. Doesn’t matter if her feelings about C.W. and kids are truthful or not, videos will serve to portray SW’s state of mind. SW’s state of mind is critical because C.W. has made it critical by alleging that she is responsible for the children’s deaths. His own confession ultimately may end up being his undoing not once, but twice. CW opened the door for the hearsay exception because he’s the one accusing SW of murder.
3. SW posted 82 videos in the 6 months leading up to her death. Tapered off near the end, many say this shows maybe what the relationship was like, but in some of her videos you really get to see how she felt about those little girls. If he’s accusing her of murdering her children, he’s going to have a hard time convincing a jury after they see the video where SW talks about not letting anyone come between “you and your goals, and what you’re building, your dreams, your foundation, and that’s what I’m building for my girls right now. I don’t want my girls to grow up like I did...I want my girls to take on the world, and I don’t want anything to stop them.” This sounds like a woman who wants the best for her children. In next video SW makes clear she wants the girls’ lives to be rich and full. AB shows vision board video where Bella repeats after SW, “I am blessed, I am healthy, I am confident, I am perfect,” etc.. Zelin says when you’re sitting there at that Defense table, on trial, and that video is played, it’s a sphincter tightening moment, where you realize maybe if C.W. is lucky he’ll come out feet first, but at a very, very old age. AB shows another video where SW talks about always living for other people until she started living for herself and her family, her kids. She doesn’t have to prove anything to anyone but her kids and herself. That’s all that matters. SW lives for her kids. Zelin says the jury, during trial, watching these videos are going to feel insult and disgust. They’re going to think how dare this defendant pin this horrific, unbelievable, indescribable tragedy on this woman. AB played video that SW took of C.W., without him knowing, of him singing hot dog, hot diggety dog, with caption, #HesGoingToKillMe. This is so prejudicial against CW.. Zelin says if the videos are coming in, they’re coming in. Every piece of evidence against a defendant is prejudicial, but for probative value, they are relevant. Because of his confession, it’s coming in.
3. Can SW’s videos work in CW’s favor? Defense Attorney, Rene Sandler, explains, if the Defense wants to use those videos, it needs to fit like a glove, like a piece in a puzzle, in order to be successful. They can backfire terribly, so the Defense must have a cogent strategy, otherwise, it’s going to backfire. AB shows video where Shanann talks about CW being the best thing besides her children that ever happened to her, she couldn’t have asked God for a better man in her life. CW is the best father she could have asked for for her children. Sandler says the videos can work in CW’s favor, they cut both ways, and she disagrees with previous guest about hearsay. If the Defense uses the video where SW praises him as a great dad, they open the door across the board. They have to be carefully strategic in weaving their defense. Sandler would have SW’s videos analyzed by a psychological expert to see if there are any nuggets whatsoever that can be used to help the defense. AB shows video where SW shows that she is close to a breaking point. Both girls, in red and white striped tees, are crying and fighting. AB says SW is the most patient mother she’s ever seen, but some people could twist that. Sandler says looking at SW’s face and body language in that video compared to others, it does show somebody that’s more tense in that moment. She would have an expert analyze these videos and to look professionally for anything the Defense could pull out to use to support their client. AB shows another video, the outdoor checker game where SW says, “Bring the baby before he’s a toddler and I don’t want him anymore.” That can be twisted, but it could blow back very hard against the defendant if they’re not careful. So all of the videos need to be viewed in their entirety by a professional to assist in a strategic presentation of evidence. Strategic game playing in court can be so ugly.
4. AB shows video where Bella thinks SW has 5 babies in her tummy. There was just one, Nico, but he didn’t make it.
Thank you, Layla! I don't always agree with JJ, but I do here: "Defense Attorney, Joey Jackson says this video speaks volumes for the prosecution. This is about a husband who abused the love, the trust, the respect, and the entirety of the relationship from a woman who loved him so, so much."
 
  • #1,055
AB 10/10/19
1. Neighbor’s camera captured C.W. leaving his house the morning that the family was reported missing. A source close to the case revealed the neighbor moved the position of that camera right before the murders happened. If he hadn’t, none of it would have been captured. Wasn’t the only person on the block with doorbell camera. Others turned in footage from their cameras.
2. CW’s movements may have been monitored from the moment his family was reported missing by work truck.
3. AB played video of SW reporting her life was lousy until it wasn’t. Couldn’t afford their dream honeymoon in Cancun, but since joining Le-Vel they were able to earn free trips to New Orleans and Punta Cana. Able to earn money while away from home, able to travel with her husband and kids. Defense Attorney, Joey Jackson says this video speaks volumes for the prosecution. This is about a husband who abused the love, the trust, the respect, and the entirety of the relationship from a woman who loved him so, so much.
2. Is there a way around the hearsay rules, so SW can be alive and living in that courtroom for the jury to see? Former Prosecutor, Randy Zelin explains absolutely, because the hallmark of hearsay is that this piece of evidence is being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. Doesn’t matter if her feelings about C.W. and kids are truthful or not, videos will serve to portray SW’s state of mind. SW’s state of mind is critical because C.W. has made it critical by alleging that she is responsible for the children’s deaths. His own confession ultimately may end up being his undoing not once, but twice. CW opened the door for the hearsay exception because he’s the one accusing SW of murder.
3. SW posted 82 videos in the 6 months leading up to her death. Tapered off near the end, many say this shows maybe what the relationship was like, but in some of her videos you really get to see how she felt about those little girls. If he’s accusing her of murdering her children, he’s going to have a hard time convincing a jury after they see the video where SW talks about not letting anyone come between “you and your goals, and what you’re building, your dreams, your foundation, and that’s what I’m building for my girls right now. I don’t want my girls to grow up like I did...I want my girls to take on the world, and I don’t want anything to stop them.” This sounds like a woman who wants the best for her children. In next video SW makes clear she wants the girls’ lives to be rich and full. AB shows vision board video where Bella repeats after SW, “I am blessed, I am healthy, I am confident, I am perfect,” etc.. Zelin says when you’re sitting there at that Defense table, on trial, and that video is played, it’s a sphincter tightening moment, where you realize maybe if C.W. is lucky he’ll come out feet first, but at a very, very old age. AB shows another video where SW talks about always living for other people until she started living for herself and her family, her kids. She doesn’t have to prove anything to anyone but her kids and herself. That’s all that matters. SW lives for her kids. Zelin says the jury, during trial, watching these videos are going to feel insult and disgust. They’re going to think how dare this defendant pin this horrific, unbelievable, indescribable tragedy on this woman. AB played video that SW took of C.W., without him knowing, of him singing hot dog, hot diggety dog, with caption, #HesGoingToKillMe. This is so prejudicial against CW.. Zelin says if the videos are coming in, they’re coming in. Every piece of evidence against a defendant is prejudicial, but for probative value, they are relevant. Because of his confession, it’s coming in.
3. Can SW’s videos work in CW’s favor? Defense Attorney, Rene Sandler, explains, if the Defense wants to use those videos, it needs to fit like a glove, like a piece in a puzzle, in order to be successful. They can backfire terribly, so the Defense must have a cogent strategy, otherwise, it’s going to backfire. AB shows video where Shanann talks about CW being the best thing besides her children that ever happened to her, she couldn’t have asked God for a better man in her life. CW is the best father she could have asked for for her children. Sandler says the videos can work in CW’s favor, they cut both ways, and she disagrees with previous guest about hearsay. If the Defense uses the video where SW praises him as a great dad, they open the door across the board. They have to be carefully strategic in weaving their defense. Sandler would have SW’s videos analyzed by a psychological expert to see if there are any nuggets whatsoever that can be used to help the defense. AB shows video where SW shows that she is close to a breaking point. Both girls, in red and white striped tees, are crying and fighting. AB says SW is the most patient mother she’s ever seen, but some people could twist that. Sandler says looking at SW’s face and body language in that video compared to others, it does show somebody that’s more tense in that moment. She would have an expert analyze these videos and to look professionally for anything the Defense could pull out to use to support their client. AB shows another video, the outdoor checker game where SW says, “Bring the baby before he’s a toddler and I don’t want him anymore.” That can be twisted, but it could blow back very hard against the defendant if they’re not careful. So all of the videos need to be viewed in their entirety by a professional to assist in a strategic presentation of evidence. Strategic game playing in court can be so ugly.
4. AB shows video where Bella thinks SW has 5 babies in her tummy. There was just one, Nico, but he didn’t make it.
Thank you Layla for another great summary.

(Hmmm..videos.. AB lurked here again..)
 
  • #1,056
Re: AP, IMO he wasn’t in love with her and planning to ditch his family for one person. I think - MOO - the AP was more of a “jump-off”, and he really just wanted an unattached bachelor-style life with lots of partners and no attachments. Pardon my French but he wanted to bang anything and everything, because he’d never done it before getting married.

My husband had a quiet nerdy school friend who married the first woman who gave him the time of day - and she was the only woman he’d ever really dated or slept with. I don’t remember why, but they eventually divorced and he went absolutely bonkers, sexually, making up for lost time. He’d want to go to bars and clubs to meet women or hire prostitutes, and everyone else was like “we’re too old for that”
 
  • #1,057
I've been reading through so many really great comments tonight. I don't think it would have mattered at all what type of personality the wife of CW might have had. If his wife had been shy, an introvert and rarely posted on social media, I don't feel anything would have changed. I believe he would have annihilated any family he had if the circumstances were right. He met someone else he wanted to spend his life with and regardless of who his wife was or how many children he had, I believe the results would have been the same. There is something vital missing in men like him. Unfortunately, SW never had a chance. I don't believe any woman would have had a chance, regardless of their personality and extenuating circumstances. All the fault was in him, IMO, and no woman would have survived, long term. JMO.
Exactly, The many discussion on other sites about SW being the catalyst to this tragedy miss the point that the catalyst was what ever defect CW has (asumming he killed all 3 which I think he did). Her actions are irrelevant when dealing with someone who sees murder as the path to a new life.
 
  • #1,058
OH good grief - he DOES look as though he's laughing.:eek:
Yes, and I'm not sure if this video tells you or not, but they're showing photos of his dead wife.
MOO
 
  • #1,059
  • #1,060
I hadn't seen this video. Thanks for posting it. IMO he, yet again, looks like he's not saying much, not really engaging with the group of people, standing back a bit, and looks awkward/uncomfortable. A little off subject but I also wonder if he ever just cracked up laughing; where your stomach hurts from laughing so much. It seems like he never got mad about anything but also never really laughed. IMO
I don’t see any big deal with this video. The 3 or 4 people around him aren’t engaging with the dancing folks either. If I were at this event, I would be doing what he is doing. Some people get giddy and dance, others are wallflowers. I’ve been to my fair share of these types of events. Frankly, I find them painful. Maybe he did too. Gives you a good glimpse of his personality. Believe me, there is a lot going on in that head of his on a daily basis.
 
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