Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Gardener1850]

IMO, most sociopaths aren't murderers.

Agreed.

 

[Golden Girl]

The thing is, there’s always going to be a flicker of a possibility that after that moment, when CW informed SW that he had made the decision to end their marriage and family life together, if he really did, SW went temporarily insane, and strangled those little girls.

IMO, this women would never hurt her children and everyone who knew her can testify to her love for them.

 

[Amonet]

How did you ascertain whether or not it was uncontrollable?

Have you, or anyone else here, ever experienced uncontrollable laughter when you find something really funny and it seems like either you're the only one laughing or you're laughing way more than anyone else at the joke? And you just can't seem to stop laughing?

That's what *I* would describe as uncontrollable.

How long did Neil Entwistle's laughing behind his hand go on for? I would say uncontrollable laughter might last from around that length of time up to several minutes which feel like they're lasting forever?

I don't think that matches what we saw in CW's interview. And as I said in a post above, I think his smiles and laughter were judged by him to be appropriate for the act he was trying to do, and I don't think they are at odd moments during his words where any other person would cry. The only thing I think that makes them seem inappropriate is that 'we know' his family were at best missing and in danger, and his context doesn't seem appropriate to the fears that most people would display, his worries seem to be about getting found out, not really for his family, and they're inappropriate in that we know that the family were actually dead.

CW seems more like he's talking to a new neighbor about his family who are maybe on vacation, and the smiles and laughing are totally appropriate for that situation. But they weren't just on vacation, they weren't just an hour late from getting back from a shopping trip...and he knew that.

 

[Thepoet]

All I see is this last photo of her at The Yardhouse in Scottsdale on Saturday, August 11, 2018.

Her post the next day, Sunday, August 12, 2018 read, "Can't wait to get home to Chris and the girls!"

Addy Molony

I'm not sure what the photo shows, besides a group of people, some waiting for their meals (or not eating).

When was that post made? I have no doubt she couldn't wait to get home to her family, but when she finally did get home, she would have been very tired.

 

[human]

Given the horrific events that transpired during the hours before those interviews were taped, C.W. would have had to have been dead emotionally and without a conscience in order to remain that calm and calculating under the circumstances. Isn’t that the definition of a psychopath?

I am so enthralled with the Scott P book. That is what the author says. SP was the walking dead.He died a long time ago. Same with CW. He feels nothing towards others. He has no idea of how to feel.

 

[Golden Girl]

If they go for the death penalty, he will have a mitigation specialist which will research his entire life. And will drag his entire family, including his mother his father and his sibling through the mud. In my opinion.

But, he and only he is responsible for his actions. IMO

 

[Layla123]

I'm wondering if people would think the same if the genders were reversed. Man and woman meet, he tells her he almost didn't even finish the date due to her personal style, then "fixes" her by getting rid of all her clothes and buying her a new wardrobe he found suitable.

People who are victims of spousal abuse often don't leave. Abuse is insidious in that it happens over time, and little by little so it becomes difficult to sometimes recognize from the inside of the situation. Questioning why a person didn't leave an abusive situation is really oversimplifying the complex nature of abuse.

Now, before y'all get your throwing tomatoes out, no, I don't know that he was an abused spouse. I also don't know that he wasn't.

Where's that "ducking behind the couch" emoticon? Lol

I think every wife I know dresses her husband, and every husband I know looks to his wife for approval. If I buy something, and my husband says it’s ugly, I never feel the same about it. There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s good to try to help one another look their best. I also think CW looked 100% better after he met SW. And that’s not an insult to him. Some people aren’t into fashion, they’re into cars.

 

[Steelhead]

Agreed.

Whew! I've been a tad gun-shy lately.

 

[Madison418]

I would agree with this insofar as it appeared to me that he seems to show concern about getting caught in his lies. But the deeper panic he describes when he was allegedly racing home as NUA had called cops, I can't see that kind of panic on display, not even under the surface. To me it looks like he's often gulping in worry over what the next question will be and if it's something he's going to be able to answer, checking the reporters' faces to see if they look like they're accepting what he's saying and he hasn't given anything away. But I think by the point of the interviews he's also got a lot of hope that he's going to get away with it.

I have a few times caught people in lies or lies by omission and they acted eerily similar to CW in his interviews. Gulping, smiling, swaying, certain movements and choice of words. IMO he is clearly just worried about getting caught. That is all, pure and simple

 

[MassGuy]

I have a few times caught people in lies or lies by omission and they acted eerily similar to CW in his interviews. Gulping, smiling, swaying, certain movements and choice of words. IMO he is clearly just worried about getting caught. That is all, pure and simple

Yup. His freedom (his life), was on the line. The stakes couldn’t possibly have been higher.

Some people can be great liars, but if they can’t feign real human emotion, they will fail in their efforts.

He failed miserably.

 

[Amonet]

Hmm I thought we'd been told she almost didn't finish their first date on account of she didn't like his style. So she bought/helped him pick out a new wardrobe and got rid of all his clothes from before the relationship.

It's funny how we interpret things in different ways. What I thought happened was that after the date, Shanann to the effect of she wasn't keen on his style, but it seemed what she was saying was that despite not being into his clothing she decided she liked *him* the man inside the clothes. Then I thought one of the VI's (Trinket?) said that he decided to go out and get some new clothes in a different style. I would have thought that would be because he liked her and perhaps thought maybe he needed some different styles of clothes suitable for dates at different places and for different occasions. I don't think it would be that unusual for a single man to have mostly working clothes and just hanging out clothes and they might not have anything in their closet for a nicer date at a nice restaurant?

 

[katydid23]

Hmm I thought we'd been told she almost didn't finish their first date on account of she didn't like his style. So she bought/helped him pick out a new wardrobe and got rid of all his clothes from before the relationship.

I didn't remember it as her 'not finishing' their first date. IIRC, she teased him about his fashion sense, saying he was wearing skater boy clothing and he needed to upgrade.

I do not think that she 'immediately' got rid of all of his clothes and bought him a new wardrobe.
I never saw it put that way before.

I think it is more like many of us have expressed. How our boyfriends, soon to be husbands, had rotten fashion sense, or like my husband, ZERO FASHION SENSE, and so we soon took over the chore of shopping for them and they are happier for it too.

My husband took over the job caring for my vehicle because I have zero car knowledge and have no interest in learning anything about it. He is happy to do it for me. I see a woman taking over the clothes shopping as a similar thing. JMO

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm referring mitigation specialist for a defense for a death penalty, as they go back all the way to Childhood.

It's not what the parents did recently within the last year that caused it, but it digs up dirt like they did with Cindy and George and Jodi's parents, and spins it to make it look really bad as far as the upbringing. And also the siblings.

It puts the whole family out there and brings up stuff that is twisted and often sick. And then, it also includes things within the family that should be very private. Jodi did it, Casey did it.

If he can kill his wife and family Etc, and then lie to the media, I have no doubt he will throw his family under the bus just like my other two examples were. They both thew their families and friends Etc under the bus.

He may even do it with her co-workers perhaps. And I can see that coming big time.

That's what I was referring to. Not anything that was done recently.

In no way am I saying that there was an issue with his upbringing, but his family Dynamics and his upbringing will definitely be researched by a mediation specialist, by Statute, if he has a death penalty against him.

It's a nasty nasty proposition for the family in my opinion.

Oh, I see what you're saying now. But I'm not sure if they can use that effectively and also use testimony from his family painting him in a good light. Plus there is the issue that he is male. CA and JA are female. Like it or not, I believe there is gender bias and it would be very difficult to convince a jury that he should get a lesser sentence because of his upbringing. You may be right and the defense may try that but I don't think it would be successful. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

I'm wondering if people would think the same if the genders were reversed. Man and woman meet, he tells her he almost didn't even finish the date due to her personal style, then "fixes" her by getting rid of all her clothes and buying her a new wardrobe he found suitable.

People who are victims of spousal abuse often don't leave. Abuse is insidious in that it happens over time, and little by little so it becomes difficult to sometimes recognize from the inside of the situation. Questioning why a person didn't leave an abusive situation is really oversimplifying the complex nature of abuse.

Now, before y'all get your throwing tomatoes out, no, I don't know that he was an abused spouse. I also don't know that he wasn't.

Where's that "ducking behind the couch" emoticon? Lol

I don't think it has anything to do with abuse or gender, more like attracting the wrong kind of person. There are plenty of women who would be attracted to a man who bought them a new wardrobe of clothes that they liked and he had a big beautiful house to boot. Although, they aren't necessarily the kind of people you would want in your life, as we found out with CW.

And he really loved those clothes she picked out for him, especially that Tar Heels shirt he was preening in right after he strangled his entire family. MOO

 

[compass]

Watching the videos I just fell in love with this family. The little girls so precious and adorable. Shanann was a bright light such a nice person. She had heartfelt gratitude to people that helped her along and expressed that gratitude and she felt truly blessed to be a mom.
He couldn't have had any emotional attachment to them to do what he did. He simply felt he wanted to be done with them and felt he had a right to do it. She was married to a wolf in sheeps clothing

Yes, so sad! Ironically, I think if someone had told her he was capable of harming anyone, she would have been his strongest defender. MOO

 

[human]

Interesting but can I just ask if this is heavily researched as to how SP was raised? Because it does bug me that the mother is ALWAYS blamed. Did SP have a dad involved with his upbringing? And this "bad mothering," the smothering and oppressive mother, they KNOW this is how he was raised? I am not sure I buy this as the explanation for these sociopaths. Seems reductive and mommy-blaming IMO

The mother had a horrific life. And I am guessing aside from the fact her father was murdered, that there were issues with him and maybe generations before then. Her mother was not concerned when dad did not come home because he often did not come home.

The SP mother was given away to a horrible orphanage. She was abused there. Had three kids with three different guys that left her. She gave away the first two and the doctor told her to keep the third. She married SP dad who,had three kids he did not really want with ex wife.

The mother had learned all kinds of maladaptive coping mechanisms that she had to learn for self survival and used those when raising the Golden Child.The father participated as well but so far there is no history of his life.

SP’s mother’s life was a true tragedy. And another unfortunate thing was that he got pneumonia when born so was in a protected device which made it that was not able to bond with his parents and most of all his mother whose heartbeat, etc he was used to.

Perfect storm.

What is CW’s story? There is one I am sure.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Oh, I see what you're saying now. But I'm not sure if they can use that effectively and also use testimony from his family painting him in a good light. Plus there is the issue that he is male. CA and JA are female. Like it or not, I believe there is gender bias and it would be very difficult to convince a jury that he should get a lesser sentence because of his upbringing. You may be right and the defense may try that but I don't think it would be successful. JMO.

Sorry, it appears I am being obtuse.

Both of these cases brought up information during the case in chief!

It was not during the mitigation stage that they dragged the family and the upbringing through the mud. Both of them presented very private and negative, and in my opinion lying, situations of their childhood and upbringing during the case in chief.

That is why I was saying the family is going to be drug through the mud during the case in Chief. Not just during the mediation stage. And it has nothing to do with any testimony. In my opinion.

 

[katydid23]

I'm wondering if people would think the same if the genders were reversed. Man and woman meet, he tells her he almost didn't even finish the date due to her personal style, then "fixes" her by getting rid of all her clothes and buying her a new wardrobe he found suitable.

People who are victims of spousal abuse often don't leave. Abuse is insidious in that it happens over time, and little by little so it becomes difficult to sometimes recognize from the inside of the situation. Questioning why a person didn't leave an abusive situation is really oversimplifying the complex nature of abuse.

Now, before y'all get your throwing tomatoes out, no, I don't know that he was an abused spouse. I also don't know that he wasn't.

Where's that "ducking behind the couch" emoticon? Lol

If it is 'abusive' to tell your spouse that they have a lack of fashion sense, and to pick out and purchase all their clothing for work and important events, then ARREST ME right now. I have been abusive for 36 years now.

 

[human]

I'm reminded of the "refrigerator mother" blaming regarding autism a few decades ago.

Truly, you must read the book. It is clear as day as to what happened. Every thing that causes issues including being separated from parents at birth is his story.

 

[human]

Interesting but can I just ask if this is heavily researched as to how SP was raised? Because it does bug me that the mother is ALWAYS blamed. Did SP have a dad involved with his upbringing? And this "bad mothering," the smothering and oppressive mother, they KNOW this is how he was raised? I am not sure I buy this as the explanation for these sociopaths. Seems reductive and mommy-blaming IMO

Completely researched. Incredible book

 

[PommyMommy]

Your original points in black. My responses in red. Your responses in blue. My response in Pink. My responses in green.

• CW is the only one who had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill Shanann and the girls - SW also had the means, motive and opportunity to kill the girls What would be her motive? - To hurt CW so he couldn't have the girls It is not at all likely that two people became homicidal at the same time and used the same method of killing. Unless CW completely destroyed the forensic evidence by dumping his children in oil tanks, the prosecution will be able to prove he killed them.

• CW was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, possibly as long as 6 – 10 months - Many people have affairs doesn't make you a killer, this could also be the reason why SW killed the girls It is one of the classic motives of a family annihilator. One of our VI’s emphasized that he wanted out of the marriage. Why would SW kill her daughters because CW was having an affair? -To hurt CW so he couldn't have the girls LE has evidence of the affair CW was having with a co-worker and it has been reported that she is cooperating with the investigation. Logic...

• Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, hadn’t been feeling well, was likely exhausted, and arrived home at 2 am - CW was likely sleeping and exhausted from watching the girls while is wife was away He was apparently not too tired to do some grilling and get on Twitter. CW claimed he saw SW when she came home. “It was quick.” - That was hours earlier and SW was also posting on SM that evening - doesn't mean he wasn't exhausted Shanann's condition - her pregnancy, not feeling well in AZ are easily proven. Her arrival time is easily proven. Common sense dictates she would have been tired. CW, according to his own admission got up at his usual time and presumably had many more hours of sleep than his pregnant wife.

• CW confessed to strangling Shanann, killing her and their unborn son - in a rage because SW killed his daughters He is a proven liar with no credibility whatsoever. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense. A loving father does not cram his toddlers into a crude oil tank if he didn't kill them. - He lied about his affair and hiding the bodies. We're not sure what the jury will be presented with He didn't just tell one little white lie, lol. He lied OVER and OVER about the most serious thing anyone could lie about - the deaths of his wife, children and unborn child. He showed no grief or remorse for committing these heinous acts. NONE There are witnesses who can testify that he didn't shed one tear.

• CW confessed that CeCe was also strangled - CW accused SW of this The autopsy results will hopefully tell us whether he was honest about how he killed her. But again, he is a proven liar with no credibility at this point. The jurors will be instructed to use logic and common sense, and his story about the monitor will prove he is lying. We're not sure what the jury will be presented with The jury is going to be presented with facts and evidence. The evidence will prove that SW did not murder her children. LE has stated that there is absolutely no evidence to show anybody but CW killed them.

• CW did not call 911, hit the panic button on the home security system or yell for help from his neighbors How do you account for the fact that if SW killed her babies, he did absolutely nothing to save them? - we're not sure if he did absolutely nothing to save them or not I think there would be some record of a 911 call or a neighbor hearing screaming and yelling if he did anything to save them. There's nothing. An hour or so later, he loaded them up in his truck and headed off to his work site.

• CW did not make any attempt to resuscitate or save the lives of his wife and children - we don't know that he didn't make attempts to resuscitate them. Common sense tells me that if he didn’t call 911, he made no effort to save them. Common sense tells me that anyone who dumps their toddlers into oil tanks was detached and had no love for them at all. - that's your opinion others may feel different Yes, and I've told you my opinion and how I arrived at it using common sense. What is your opinion and why?

• CW confessed that in less than an hour and ½ later (from 4 am), he loaded all their bodies into his truck. How was he even able to function if he just saw his babies being murdered? It is preposterous to believe that someone whose children were murdered could even walk or drive at all, let alone load up three dead bodies and head to work. The sheer disrespect he shows for the bodies of his wife and babies will infuriate the jury. He needs to take a plea if there is one offered. - From the interview it doesn't appear that he was functioning He functioned well enough to make sure the house was secure. He functioned well enough to back up his truck and load the bodies in it. He functioned well enough to drive 45 minutes. He functioned well enough to make it up the stairs to the top of the oil tanks, remove the bolts on the hatches and stuff his children in them. TWICE. He functioned clearly enough to remember to bring a shovel and he functioned well enough to dig a hole and to carry his wife's body over to that hole. He functioned well enough to shovel dirt on top of her body to conceal it. He functioned well enough to call and text her that morning to set up his "I have no inclination where she is" story. He functioned well enough to race home, running red lights without being involved in an accident. He functioned well enough to open the home up to law enforcement and answer questions. He functioned well enough to call friends and family under the pretense of needing help to find his "missing" family. He was clean, well-groomed and wearing his new shirt for the cameras the next day with no signs of lack of sleep. He functioned well enough to respond to reporter's questions. ?

• CW confessed to driving with their dead bodies for 45 minutes (or so) to dispose of the evidence - same point as above same point as above

• CW confessed to burying his wife and their unborn son in the dirt - to avoid being accused of killing all of them Agree, he was covering his . Would an innocent person need to cover their ? He could have avoided being accused by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened. The only time this happens is when the suspect is guilty of the crime. - He is guilty of killing his pregnant wife and he thought we would be blamed for killing all of them And an innocent man who loved his children wouldn't worry about being blamed. An innocent man would have immediately dialed 911 and said, "Help, please! My wife's gone berserk and I think she's killed the kids!" Pfft

• CW confessed to dumping his 3 and 4-year-old daughters into crude oil tanks, possibly cramming them through 8" hatches - to avoid being accused of killing them He could have avoided that by calling 911 at the time it happened. If his story were true, it could have been proven. Instead, he methodically and immediately carried out the destruction of critical evidence and pretended nothing happened. - He thought he would be blamed for killing all of them Anybody who watches crime shows on TV knows that the investigation begins with the person closest and branches outward. It doesn't matter. His actions are not that of an innocent man. If he is capable of heinously dumping his own flesh and blood toddlers into crude oil tanks, it is because he killed them. Innocent people do not do this.

• CW gave three interviews the next day and showed no signs of sleeplessness, no signs of grief, no signs of a psychotic episode - this is not fact others see it different Every expert I have heard from and commented on the case agrees...Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Criminologists, etc. - Others see signs he's scared and nervous, etc., Scared and nervous at getting caught is pretty normal. The jury will more than likely be presented with experts, not "others."

• CW’s actions following the murders show consciousness of guilt – possibly According to our legal experts, DEFINITELY. According to many, many others using plain old common sense, DEFINITELY.

• LE stated that there is no evidence that the deaths of the girls were committed by anyone but CW - in their preliminary findings we don't know what they have found since If there has been any exculpatory evidence discovered, there should be signs of that. He is still in jail and his charges have not changed. He is charged with 5 counts of first degree murder.- We don't know what we don't know. But law enforcement and the prosecution do know and his charges have not been reduced.

• CW has no history of mental illness (as far as we know at this point) - the same goes for SW. Yes, the same goes for Shanann, but she is not on trial as much as some people want to make that so. - CW accused her of killing the girls. Sadly she's not here to defend herself, but if it goes to trial it will be discussed. If he sticks with his current story. It's entirely possible that the defense will come up with something entirely different ala Casey Anthony.