Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

[gitana1]

Okay, do I have this right? If they go with the insanity defense, we will hear that at arraignment. And, arraignment will be scheduled at the status hearing 11/19?
MOO

If they're going that way they would. I don't know when it will be scheduled. I'm not familiar with Colorado's process.

But I think the first step and biggest objectivity is a competency determination. Which they may do just to delay the trial. Delay is good for them.

I don't think ultimately they will go with an insanity defense.

 

[MyBelle]

Even if it was helpful for his defense wouldn't they want to keep it quiet and then do a bombshell in the courtroom?

I think at this point all the defense is doing is reacting to the prosecution's filings. I'm baffled why the prosecution thinks the coroner is incapable of arguing for the sealing of the autopsy reports without the prosecution's help. I'd like to hear the thoughts of the VI attorneys.

 

[MyBelle]

When I saw that motion, all I could think is there is something the defense believes will bolster their defense, as I also thought when I saw how the defense is fighting to have the autopsy reports released. It may all be pre-trial strategy, and I look forward to what our attorneys have to say.

Is the defense really fighting to have the autopsy reports released? Or are they fighting to have the legal argument debated only between the media and the coroner without the prosecutor's help? I also look forward to VI attorneys weighing in. JMO

 

[gitana1]

Thank you so much for your response. Especially that they may be pursuing diminished capacity. In a later post I mentioned extreme emotional distress, but I didn't think of DC. In any case, I think CW is getting an exceptional defense from the public defenders. And, again, I thank you for your insight and expertise.

In CO they use what's called the "heat of passion" mitigator. I think it's the same as an extreme emotional disturbance.

I hadn't thought about that as being a reason for filing a motion under seal but yes. That could definitely be a reason. Because statements he made or will make to experts or to his lawyers or prison staff could go to that too. And that's more plausible than winning an insanity defense.

 

[gitana1]

I believe in CO they can do both.

I was wrong, I believe. I think I was thinking about how in CO the state can present a case of first degree murder at the same as second.

 

[Colorado303]

Based on the limited information provided to the court, the defendant is hereby authorized to file a motion under seal. Upon receipt this court will determine if the motion was appropriately filed as sealed. If so, the court will determine if it would be appropriate to schedule an ex parte hearing. If the motion was inappropriately filed as a sealed document the court will consider converting the motion to a DATE FILED: October 22, 2018 “suppressed” or “public” filing”.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Order C 21.pdf

I think this is rather broad, and the court is not sure if it will prove to be valid or not. IOW, the judge is agreeing to see the evidence and take it from there. IMO

So what does this really mean? It sounds like the court said yes they could file the motion as sealed, but then it sounds like if after the court sees the sealed motion they can declare it shouldn’t have been sealed and re-classify it. Am I interpreting that correctly? Is it possible after filing the sealed motion the information could be made public anyway?

 

[Colorado303]

Because my mind went to another possibility, I looked up HIPPA. I'm no lawyer, but reading it made me wonder is this HIPPA request might be something outside CW's history. Again, I look forward to hearing from our verified attorneys who understand legalese better than myself.
Guidance: Personal Representatives

I wondered about that too—if it could also cover health records of SW and the girls. If SW had just learned or was about to learn she was HIV positive and contracted it from CW, he would have strong motive to silence her before it was discovered or made public.

 

[Colorado303]

Is there a mental defense they could use to try to excuse/explain his cover-up behavior after the crime? Something like PTSD caused by seeing his girls killed?

 

[Niner]

Here's what happened yesterday - re his house. I couldn't post it yesterday, as the thread was closed. New "stuff" in red.

Friday, October 26th:
*Return Date on Summons Hearing (House) (@ 8:30am MT) - CO – Shanann Watts (34) (was 15 wks pregnant), Celeste “CeCe” (3) & Bella (4) (Aug. 13, 2018, Frederick; Shanann found 8/16/18 in open field, 2 girls found 8/17/18 in a crude oil tank) – *Christopher Lee Watts (33) arrested (8/15/18) & charged (8/20/18) on 3 counts of 1st degree murder, 2 counts of 1st degree murder of under age of 12 yrs old, 1 count of unlawfully terminating a pregnancy & 3 counts of tampering with evidence. Held without bond.
Confessed to killing, but now blaming Shanann for killing 2 girls.
8/21/18 Update: Waives his right to Prelim hearing within 35 days, defense wants to postpone next hearing for 60 days, did not enter any plea. Next Status hearing on 11/19.
9/21/18 Update: Watts' defense attorneys filed a motion on Friday (9/21) saying they could not respond to the prosecution's request because they did not yet have the reports. The motion argued the prosecution has not met its "constitutional obligations" to turn over evidence to the defense, and thus was in violation of due process of law and was undermining the fairness of the proceedings. Watts' attorneys also filed a motion requesting a protective order that would allow them to withhold information about confidential jail visits. While Kopcow denied the request, he provided an alternative for the defense. Judge Kopcow handling the Watts case has ordered the prosecution to hand deliver the autopsy reports to Watts' defense attorneys by Tuesday (9/25) after they accused the prosecution of withholding evidence. Judge Kopcow also denied the defense's motion for a protective order that would prohibit the Weld County Sheriff's Office from disclosing information about confidential jail visits.
9/25/18 Update: The autopsy reports for Shanann Watts and her children are not yet available, which is why the prosecution has not provided them to Christopher Watts’ defense attorneys, according to a motion filed Tuesday by Weld County District Attorney Michael Rourke.
10/12/18 Update: DA filed motion to seal autopsy report, Judge denies motion.
10/15/18 Update: The Weld County Coroner Carl Blesch filed a petition Monday requesting the court keep the autopsy reports sealed at this time.
10/19/18 Update: The defense attorneys are asking for a hearing on the coroner's petition to seal the autopsy reports, arguing against the coroner's request for a closed hearing on the issue. In a motion filed to the criminal case against Watts Friday (10/19/18), the defense argues a hearing is necessary to determine the merit of the arguments for sealing the autopsies. According to that motion, the defense also filed a motion to intervene in the coroner's petition, which is a civil case, Friday. The defense said it filed the motion in the criminal case "out of an abundance of caution."
10/23/18 Update: Weld District Attorney Michael Rourke filed a motion Tuesday (10/23) in Weld District Court asking to be represented at a hearing on whether the autopsy reports in the Watts homicide case should be sealed. The Tribune & other media partners across Colorado have filed a motion contesting the potential seal of the autopsy reports. In the motion to intervene, Rourke argues releasing the autopsy reports could jeopardize the investigation and prosecution of Watts. A hearing on the potential sealing of the autopsy reports has not been set.

 

[Seattle1]

If they did go with an insanity defense, would they essentially admit that he killed all of them, but wasn’t legally responsible?

Or could they attempt a type of dual defense, where they say he didn’t kill his kids, but if he did, he was legally insane at the time?

I believe this attempt would end with mentally ill but legally sane. And all for mitigating circumstances to reject DP. MOO today

 

[MassGuy]

I believe this attempt would end with mentally ill but legally sane. And all for mitigating circumstances to reject DP. MOO today

I could see that. The way I see it, a win for the defense would be to save his life, should the DA go for the death penalty.

 

[Seattle1]

I think at this point all the defense is doing is reacting to the prosecution's filings. I'm baffled why the prosecution thinks the coroner is incapable of arguing for the sealing of the autopsy reports without the prosecution's help. I'd like to hear the thoughts of the VI attorneys.

I disagree. It was the Defense who first petitioned to join the lawsuit, and later when the State did the same, Defense cried. Thankfully the judge ruled BOTH may join the lawsuit. And nothing to be baffled about; ruling was fair. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

I wondered about that too—if it could also cover health records of SW and the girls. If SW had just learned or was about to learn she was HIV positive and contracted it from CW, he would have strong motive to silence her before it was discovered or made public.

Exactly. Defense wanted a guarantee before even showing their hand. Court said you have permission to show us your hand under seal, but we'll decide whether to suppress or make it public.

ETA: HIPAA also applies to decedents for 50 years from date of death of the individual.

 

[Seattle1]

So what does this really mean? It sounds like the court said yes they could file the motion as sealed, but then it sounds like if after the court sees the sealed motion they can declare it shouldn’t have been sealed and re-classify it. Am I interpreting that correctly? Is it possible after filing the sealed motion the information could be made public anyway?

Yes...

 

[Sheenaisapunkrocker]

Found this gem quote on the Chris Coleman case:
From Stella5
"Here we go folks... I'll bet we're going to hear how CC caught Sheri killing the boys, then he killed her and then covered it up to protect his Godly, good boy image. Any other theories?"
2011.04.28 - Day four of the trial - TL testifies

It's deja vu all over again.

 

[NuttMegg]

But unless he recants his confession, marks on his neck would be irrelevant.

Can he recant his confession at any time? Or would that be done in court?

 

[margarita25]

( :lurk:

All this legal talk is way over my head, thanks for the updates everyone.)

 

[gitana1]

Is there a mental defense they could use to try to excuse/explain his cover-up behavior after the crime? Something like PTSD caused by seeing his girls killed?

I really think this is more likely to be about a possible competency exam. And as KathrynL discussed- a heat of passion type mitigator. That makes sense because his state of mind, emotional issues, mental health, would or could go to both.

Besides something like a psychosis so grave he didn't even know what he was doing, I can't think of a diagnosis that could help him in an insanity defense. Or explain his post-crime behavior, really.

The insanity/diminished capacity defense typically means that due to any mental disease or defect, the person did not know what they were doing - so the one they teach us in law school is they think they're squeezing lemons but they're actually squeezing someone's neck - or they don't realize that what they're doing is wrong. So they're so incapacitated by insanity or brain damage of some sort that they think what they're doing is legal or otherwise wrong.

An example of that is Andrea Yates. At her re-trial it was found she did not understand that what she was doing was wrong. She knew it was illegal however she felt it wasn't wrong because she thought she was saving her kids from eternal hellfire. So she was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

She was incredibly psychotic.

CW showed zero signs of any illness right after the murders from what we can see from his behavior - what he did, said, how he acted, etc.

Yates didn't try to cover up the crimes. She was practically catatonic in her affect. She called 911 and immediately admitted what she had done, which is typical of the truly insane.

They usually lack the capacity to try to conceal what they did.

But if you just mean they may try to use something to simply try to show why his post-crime behavior doesn't exhibit consciousness of guilt, that could be.

I mean they had experts on to prove that casey Anthony's behavior in partying and getting tattoos didn't show she was a heartless murderer but that everyone "grieves differently".

Hell. I didn't know some parents grieve by dancing on a stripper pole.

 

[borndem]

Thank you for opening up new thread.
Eagerly awaiting to follow all tos.

Here's another --

Welcome to Websleuths, Amy Hernandez!!​

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Defense is really stretching it's use of HIPAA: one part of the motion cites protecting any care provider from breaking FEDERAL LAW of nondisclosure pursuant to HIPAA, and another part to seal [CW] pre and post arrest medical treatment. I believe defense really wants to shield CW mental/psych evaluation including the location and duration. Sealing HIV, STD, etc. also possible. MOO

I agree, in part.

I think it was set up originally to the visitor logs as to interviewing for a mental situation which would help the defense. The defense did not want the prosecution to know who was visiting him. Because their credentials may be obvious to the prosecution as to their strategy.

And therefore HIPAA laws are now going in so the prosecution cannot see the results on that also. Both of them, I think were done to protect what the defense is going for in their strategy.

I agree with Gitana, very impressive defense attorneys.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

So, what does everyone think about the sealing of CW health records? I'm thinking HIV positive/Aids? Just a thought.

I'm thinking horses versus zebras. Occam's razor. I think it has to do with mental evaluations which the defense has tried to hide from the very beginning when they Limited the public release and the prosecution release of the visitor logs.