CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #8

[Deleted member 117120]

That’s why this all points to heat of the moment.

Whether it was premeditated or points to heat of the moment, either scenario CW killed the girls and SW.

 

[cottonweaver]

I agree, I thought the same thing when I first saw it. Bizarre.

In what way Sabrina?

 

[Sabrina1011]

maybe it's a loyalties issue- why they're uncomfortable and why you're picking up on that. They don't know how much they should say?

I think it was too long also and they didn’t know how to end it gracefully. I can imagine that.

 

[SuperTmo]

I guess if it was folded up in the box and they just took it out and unfolded it once. It actually looks like they never even used it before.

You’re right. It looks brand new, which is more evidence that he did it IMO. Because why would they open a board game and take the pat out of the plastic wrapper it comes in, turn it inside out to look like a morgue sheet (we just bought one and ours came wrapped in clear plastic with the colored circles facing out), and then somehow re-fold it so perfectly. One would think a kid that age would open the box, find the spinner and colorful mat and lose interest in the doll.

 

[SuperTmo]

As you can see in this video, he smiles too. I think we’re putting too much into CW smile.

They didn’t kill anyone. Their smiles were sad smiles, not out of place. He wanted us to believe his beloved wife and kids were missing and he was smiling. It doesn’t fit. Surely you can see the difference.

 

[SuperTmo]

HLN is mainstream

I used to watch that every night because I was certain that Nancy Grace would work herself into such a frenzy that she would literally spontaneously combust. I didn’t want to miss it.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I used to watch that every night because I was certain that Nancy Grace would work herself into such a frenzy that she would literally spontaneously combust.

Now THAT would be a BOMBSHELL!

 

[KathrynL]

I agree, I thought the same thing when I first saw it. Bizarre.

I thought they were devastated and generally freaked out. Decades ago, a co-worker of my ex-husband was arrested for a string of sexual assaults at a local mall. We had socialized with him and his wife, and I can't describe how being blindsided like that affects you. It's shocking and frightening. And they had this guy in their house with their child...moo

 

[NCTeacher]

I used to watch that every night because I was certain that Nancy Grace would work herself into such a frenzy that she would literally spontaneously combust.

I literally just lol'd.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

This video more than any other convinced me it is a nervous smile and he doesn’t know he’s doing it.

DAdvocate, agreed, it was a nervous smile and he does not know he is doing it, but it doesn't mean he is innocent, it is the contrary. CW is nervous and smiling because he is suppressing emotions and memories of his crimes he committed towards his family.

 

[SuperTmo]

Now, this is just my opinion, but I don’t think he cared that much. I think he went along for the ride and posed for the photos, but I think she was the one who was motivated to be successful at it. It’s my opinion that he was a pretty good marketing tool because he was good-looking and had a good transformation from chubby to very fit.

I think she did the writing of the IG posts and on FB (if he did use his FB to promote Thrive). If she had decided to quit, I don’t think he would have stayed in the game.

JMO

But the point I was making wasn’t that he loved it and lived it and would never leave Thrive. It’s that he was sucked in too, benefited heavily from it, and so murdering her over it just doesn’t make sense.

 

[Amonet]

That’s why this all points to heat of the moment.

As we don't know exactly what happened I don't think we can say for sure that it was heat of the moment.

The nature of murdering three people, and we don't know what kind of time was between each murder, would imply to me either psychosis or that at least the second two were premeditated.

My understanding is that legal premeditation is not exactly how lay people might think it is, and it might be that the legal thing is that once you've got your hands around someone's neck, when you decide to not remove your hands, then you've chosen (premeditated) to attempt murder. I'm not a lawyer so we need legal clarification on that point, as we might be wrong if we assume that a heat-of-the moment reaction that ends in murder is automatically not premeditated.

CW's post-murder reaction does not suggest psychosis was behind the murders.

I am reading people using the word 'motive' for these murders. It's possible there was a motive in the usual sense of the word. I wonder if it was more that a trigger point was reached, which I think is different from having motive, but in no way automatically means that there was no premediation. In a lot of ways it does seem like there's probably associated motivation (I'm tired of putting on this doting daddy act, I want to be free and go have girlfriends and not be tied down by a wife and children (and one more on the way!).

Anyway, my point is that even a premeditation period of one minute would mean that he didn't have a pre-existing plan for clearing up and scene-setting and disposal. I think his plan was limited, but might have been that he'd do whatever clearing up and disposal before work, and then come home after work and anything he thought of in the meantime ... making sure to say he came home to an open back door and maybe throwing out the bedding and Shanann's purse, could be finished after work. But Shanann's friend turned up at the door and blew his chance to finish off the clearing up and the scene-setting.

So, to sum up, not completing all those things before going off to dispose of the bodies in no way automatically means lack of premeditation.

 

[Sabrina1011]

In what way Sabrina?

I think they were conflicted about giving the interview and seemed quite concerned with clearing their reputation with her family because they supported CW. I guess bizarre should be changed to awkward. And I agree the position they were sitting in was not helpful. Having said all of this, I’m sure if I were in that situation, I would have really screwed it up as I am not a fan of public speaking especially on TV!!!

 

[Deleted member 117120]

But he didn't run out of time. She got home 3.5 hours before he left. That is plenty of time to put people in bags, load them, grab her purse, meds, and sheets.

Running out of time was as a result of CW waiting for SW to fall asleep before he commenced murdering her. IMO I think CW always planned on waiting for SW to fall asleep and he lost several hours due to flight delay and SW arrival home later then anticipated.

 

[SheepMan]

Re: Gas can in truck (from prior thread)

Two reasons come to mind:

1. You would use gas to remove oil stains from the tank lids or sides if you spilled any, and you could also use it to remove oil from your clothes and hands. Not pleasant, but it would work faster than any other option available.

2. Maybe his truck was low on gas and he didn't want to risk having to fill-up with 3 dead bodies in the truck.

3rd reason - he has a gas can in his car like most sensible people do (including myself) in case he runs out of gas! I really don’t think the gas can was part of anything except sensible planning in case of breakdown

 

[SuperTmo]

I don't know how CW thought he would get away with the story, "She must have just left with the kids".

SW was very close with her family, friends, posting on SM. No one would have believed that story, if that was his plan.

I wonder how far he would have gone with this story if he has time? I wonder if he planned to abandon her car somewhere with some essential items they would need to try making it look like they left and then went missing on their trip to wherever.

 

[Deleted member 229213]

I have always called it a players smile and eyes. I also just knew by smirk and eyes.

maybe it's a loyalties issue- why they're uncomfortable and why you're picking up on that. They don't know how much they should say?

Maybe, that could be it...or maybe they are hiding something and not telling the whole truth? Its definitely a sketchy vibe, I think you are right creepy is the wrong word...

 

[SheepMan]

Sorry for the length of this post, but I think it's important to understand the Watts' current financial situation from the public info. we have, and discuss how that plays into CW's motive. While I don't think their financial stressors were the only motive, I do think it played an important part, especially in the timing of the crime.

The Watts declared Ch 7 Bankruptcy in 2015. At that time, their combined income as around $90,000/year (CW earned around 65,000 as a field operator & SW was earning $18/hour at a call center).

They listed $448,820 in debt in their filing. This consisted of student loan debt (not discharged by BK), department store credit cards (Babies R Us, Nordstrom, Macy's), numerous medical bills, an $18,968 loan to Sharonview Credit Union, AS WELL AS the $400,000 house they purchased on Saratoga Trail in CO with an FHA loan in 2013.

Note: FHA loans are for low-income buyers & it allows them to borrow $ for a house they otherwise could not afford.

Records confirm they bought the house in 2013 from the builder for $399,954. The FHA loan was for $392,702. This confirms that there was very little down payment made, which disproves the theory that CW used SW for the money she got from the sale of her NC house from her first marriage. What if SW was already struggling with debt? What if she used the sale of her first house to try to pay down debt, which only bought her some more time? Once they purchased this CO home, which was way out of their league, they were quickly again under water financially.

So, here they are, married in 2012, with this big, expensive house by 2013, lots of existing debt, and a mortgage over $3,000/month PLUS an extremely high monthly mortgage premium due to FHA loan. They have their first child in 2015. They also declare bankruptcy that year. At the time they filed, they had $10 in their savings accounts, and $860 in their checking account.

In a Ch 7 Bankruptcy in CO, the only way to hold on to an asset like a house is to reaffirm the debt by bringing it to current. I'm assuming, based on their listed income at the time, that they were behind on their house payments before choosing to file for BK. I don't see how they could have been paying a $3,000 mortgage or bring it to current at the time of their filing with $870 TOTAL in their bank accounts.

Based on all of this info,. I think we can most likely conclude that they were losing their house. In addition, their HOA was suing them for several years of unpaid homeowners' dues. Their court date was to be this Friday, 8/24.

IMO they weren't paying HOA dues because they were losing the house & the dues would be paid through a lien by the bank upon sale.

So...knowing all of this info, I ask you: What if CW was about appearances just as much as SW was?
How would they explain this to friends and neighbors who believed their lifestyle was THRIVING?
Did CW resent SW for what he may have viewed as her culpability in their financial ruin?

Would love to hear your thoughts, sluethers!

A $3000 per month repayment on a $400,000 house doesn’t add up. Unless they have seriously short home loans in the USA. A home loan in UK or Aus is generally over 25 or 30 years and for $400,000 the repayment would be under $2000 per month.

 

[MerryB]

She was most definitely sucked in deep to the MLM. The thing about them is that for a few they work well as a source of revenue but for most they just get sucked in. She seemed to do fine. But he sold the stuff and got a free car payment too, so I can’t imagine he would kill over it. I mean, maybe he was jealous of her sales? That is the extent I can see it being a factor.

C.W. drove a truck owned by his employer, Anadarko. He did not have a car paid for by MLM. S.W. drove a Lexus with her “car allowance” deducted from her earnings. Perhaps that’s what you’re referring to.
I think we’ve established the couple was most probably in financial trouble. IMO this was a huge factor in what C.W. chose to do.

 

[cottonweaver]

Now, this is just my opinion, but I don’t think he cared that much. I think he went along for the ride and posed for the photos, but I think she was the one who was motivated to be successful at it. It’s my opinion that he was a pretty good marketing tool because he was good-looking and had a good transformation from chubby to very fit.

I think she did the writing of the IG posts and on FB (if he did use his FB to promote Thrive). If she had decided to quit, I don’t think he would have stayed in the game.

JMO

That's interesting - never considered that SW could have written his posts . Will take another look
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...l.com/chris_thrives+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us