CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

[NuttMegg]

For those that believe his story that they had an emotional conversation or fight on her return:

Why no signs of a fight at the house?

Well I'm in that category, of her death being the result of a big shouting match. But I also think he was on the edge and had possibly thought about a use for those tanks. He could have hit her, she fell, he jumped on top of her and strangled her, all without signs of a fight. Same with the kids, he could have just strangled them with his hands or also with a pillow. Do we know the status of the "bedding" in the garbage?

 

[cottonweaver]

I think there had to have been a struggle, but not necessarily a fight. If it happened on the bed, the "signs" would be limited, (vs. lamps knocked over, holes in the wall and that sort of thing). I can't get his statement of "It was quick" out of my head.

SW seems to have had such a life-force so yes I think she'd fight back but what could even she do if she has full body weight on her ( restraint of arms by his legs etc) and someone eg. pressing on those vital arteries in the neck which can mean loss of consciousness in under 60 secs?

If there were example holes in wall why did LE wait til 7am next day to do that
"BOLO well-being initiated thru dispatch"? ( Affidavit)

can you remind me what " it was real quick" was in reference to again - I know it was in one of the interviews but now the context escapes me.

 

[dgfred]

I know this is a really weird question. But what happens to the home and personal belongings in cases like this.
Is SW family in charge of selling things and or returning things (the Lexus) or is CW family in charge.
Do you sell all the clothes do you throw things away. The house now sits empty full of belongings for people whom are no longer here.
I know weird question.
I was watching a video on SW FB talking about the new fridge they just bought and just thought hum what happens to everything now.

Probably a crime scene deal for now... later to be released to the relatives of the owner.

 

[MerryB]

Her phone being in the couch bugs me. I'm wondering if CW stashed it there so she couldn't call the cops in case she was able to get away from him when he attacked her.

That's what I think.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

This is going to be a long post on my theory. I think the bed sheets are going to do CW in. This is what I believe happened: SW gets home at 1:48. She leaves her belongings downstairs to deal with in the morning. She’s exhausted after a delayed flight, etc… She goes upstairs and straight to her bedroom. I don’t think she risks waking the kids in the middle of the night by going in to kiss them when she can see them on the monitor. (I personally don’t want to risk waking my kids at that hour knowing they won’t get back to sleep). She had no reason to believe C.W. wouldn’t have taken good care of them as he had done on all of her previous work trips. I do believe that the kids were alive at this point (I’ll explain later). I don’t think a big conversation happened between SW and CW.....maybe just a groggy hello if C.W. even bothered to act awake. I think C.W. is a coward and waited for SW to fall asleep before strangling her on their bed….probably around 3:00am.(FYI…she should be wearing pajamas when the ME report comes out). After C.W. kills SW, he wraps her in the fitted sheet she is laying on deceased on the bed. To be able to do this he has to toss off all of the top bedding to be able to peel those fitted sheet corners off of the foot of the mattress.
Hence the pile of bedding found on the floor by LE. With the most difficult murder out of the way, he proceeded to kill the “easier” victims. He likely placed them in bags because they were small. SW wouldn’t fit in a bag. I think killing all 3 and wrapping/bagging them up probably took about an hour. Then C.W. still had to shower and get dressed for work and load the truck. So I’m thinking from 3:00-4:00ish the murders happened, from 4:00-5:00 the quick clean up and get ready for work happened, and he was loaded and out of the driveway at 5:27am.
The reason I think the kids were still alive when he killed SW was because C.W. needed to get past the toughest murder first. In case SW was able to fight him off or he chickened out, he didn’t want to have 2 deceased children to deal with. He knew if he was successful in killing SW that the kids would be quick and easy to kill as they wouldn’t be able to put up much of a fight.
To disprove CW’s account of how it happened, the sheets again tell the story in my opinion. He would have killed SW in one of the girls’ rooms and SW would have wound up on the floor there. Knowing he couldn’t put her in a bag, he would wrap her in a sheet. Why on earth would he have used the fitted sheet from the Master bed to wrap her up? The fitted sheet is more difficult to remove because you have to walk to all 4 corners of the bed to remove it. Wouldn’t it have been easier for him to grab the much easier flat top sheet to use? It’s bigger and can be tied on the ends. Or he could have just used the top sheet from the kids bed that was right there where he claimed he killed her.
I believe the sheets in the kitchen trashcan were the ones on the bed at the time he killed SW. I’m pretty sure LE will be able to tell if those sheets were “used” or clean. I also think the cadaver dogs may have alerted to a dead body in the master bedroom which will also disprove CW’s account of what happened. SW should not have been dead in the master bedroom if he killed her in the girls room. Side note, if SW is wearing the clothes she came home in, then the attack would have happened sooner in the bedroom.....and maybe they did have a conversation that got heated. The clothing of SW and the girls in the ME report will give some indication as to when the were killed. Sorry for the long post. Any similar theories out there?

EXCELLENT POST CGW!
The only thing I could add to this is CW could still have killed the girls before SW arrived home. He could have staged their bodies underneath their blankets in such a way as though they were sleeping. That way if SW viewed them on the baby monitor they would appear to be sleeping or if SW peeked into the room they would appear sleeping. Only risk in that scenerio is if SW went to give them a kiss she would have discovered them dead.

 

[passionflower]

Would CW be listed as a serial killer even though the 4 he murdered were family?

 

[dgfred]

no

Since premeditation can be in seconds or minutes... how can you say that?

 

[dgfred]

Would CW be listed as a serial killer even though the 4 he murdered were family?

More like the mass murder category

 

[Sabrina1011]

Dogs don't talk

I remember hearing somewhere (maybe the couple in the park who had the “awkward” interview”) that C.W. was quite fond of the dog. Also, if he kills the dog, it is one more thing to explain and dispose.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Although apparently a neighbour heard the dog making an unusual wailing sound - sorry, I can’t remember where it was published. I guess a dog is harder to strangle

The dog knew the girls were dead.

 

[cottonweaver]

Well I'm in that category, of her death being the result of a big shouting match. But I also think he was on the edge and had possibly thought about a use for those tanks. He could have hit her, she fell, he jumped on top of her and strangled her, all without signs of a fight. Same with the kids, he could have just strangled them with his hands or also with a pillow. Do we know the status of the "bedding" in the garbage?

yes it will be interesting to see if they find a weapon or blunt force injury. ( The house is certainly spacious and uncluttered enough to allow a fight etc)

It's definitely true that a neighbour may not have heard shouting but another neighbour heard dog howling at another stage.

 

[CARIIS]

I’m curious about the house in regard to the bankruptcy situation. They cannot declare bankruptcy again. If they have been unable to make house payments, the bank would eventually foreclose.

If so, would they still be able to realize any kind of profit from the appreciation of the house?

I read that...as far as the luxury car, LeVel only makes the payment on months where you sell a designated amount of product. So there’s pressure every month, for this couple with no savings, to try at all costs to avoid being hit with that additional burden.

I’m trying to imagine how a divorce would have affected each of them. Losing the house, maybe the car, and the “perfect” marriage might have destroyed the image Shanann so carefully crafted...so essential to the “this job solves all your problems” spin. Traveling to these vacation meetings would require expensive childcare.

On the other hand, his Other Woman might have not seen him as so desirable..when she began to understand the amount of debt he’d be saddled with AND double child support

But whomever initiated the topic of separation or divorce, it had to present scary future scenarios to the other party.

In addition to the luxury car not being paid for if certain numbers were not met every single month - in all there pics and stuff they were wearing her patches.

The autoship of her stuff was like 300 a month so we know where 600 a month was going and it was not for the house food elec etc. So if we put taxes back in around what 900 bucks or so of income had to go to caffeine and alpha sprouts or whatever patches.

Which at 60K would be a week of income for some Thrive monthly for two . I would think a fourth of income , for a household without firm income could become messy.

I dont know about anyone else but if someone bought a plane ticket for me to go somewhere it def costs money to be away from home. Even staying with family when out of town folks spend money!

 

[Bill Carson]

For those that believe his story that they had an emotional conversation or fight on her return:

Why no signs of a fight at the house?

We don't know that there weren't signs of a fight at the house.

 

[natsound]

Last page of affidavit..

I'm looking at the three-page affidavit and I'm not seeing a witness list. Am I blind or am I looking at the wrong document... warrantless affidavit

 

[CARIIS]

The whole phone thing hits me as rage (out of control) on the way towards the kids bedroom.

 

[DAdvocate]

The whole phone thing hits me as rage (out of control) on the way towards the kids bedroom.

By SW.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

My understanding is the girls each had their own rooms. Therefore was there 2 baby monitors in the home or one baby monitor with the option to view two rooms?

 

[NuttMegg]

No. But the ridiculously implausible story of seeing one child sprawled out blue (on a black and white monitor), and the other child being strangled by a suddenly distraught wife, causing a man to coincidentally also react by murdering said wife, and to also coincidentally do it via strangling, (not gun, beating with an object, etc.), instead of throwing her off the child and a) Calling 911, b) Checking pulses, c) Immediately attempting to resuscitate one or both children, d) Running out of the house, screaming and wailing for help...that should allow one to make that leap.

Let's add in a couple things that should enable anyone with critical thinking skills to conclude this man's story is nonsensical garbage as he murdered his whole family:

1. After the laughable story of two parents separately and coincidentally reacting with homicide -and not only homicide but coincidentally, the the exact same method - and dad defying all parental instinct and not even trying to rescue the very precious children who he adored so much that he went out of his mind at the sight of someone harming them, after all that, he again fails to call 911 after killing his wife and again fails to scream in agony at what happened and beg, as ALL distraught parents who love their children do, for help that will never come.

In fact, no screaming in anguish is heard from that house at all that morning, despite the incredible proximity of the houses. Wow. That was one quiet event, seeing your precious kids being killed and reacting with unhinged fury. So silent.

He goes from out of his mind with fury and pain to utterly calm, apparently, in an instant.

2. Not only that, he takes those precious children who he loved so much that he killed at the sight of someone harming him, and he loads them up in his truck, calmly drives away from his house and dumps their precious little bodies in vats of dirty, black oil. No burial for them. Not one damn thing about the way their bodies were discarded to indicate they were loved.

3. He goes to work. He killed his "insane" wife because she destroyed the two people who mattered the most to him, right? And he just goes to work. Where he calmly watched the ring video that shows if anyone is coming to the house.

4. This man who simply snapped at the sight of his precious kids being harmed (remember, there is no way he could've known that they were dead or beyond resuscitation from a glimpse in a monitor), he calmly texts his dead wife and leaves voicemails he knows she will never hear, "Where are you, babe?"

5. The man who knows his entire life is floating in dirty vats of black oil, he then calmly calls his wife's friend when he sees her on the ring video at the house. "What's going on?"

6. The same man who after losing his mind from insane anguish, (anguish that was not vocalized at all) quietly loaded his dead loved ones bodies into his truck, dumped their bodies and then calmly went to work, now, NOW, he suddenly shows emotion and with a "racing heart", he runs several stop lights to get home. So scared of getting caught but able to quietly murder your wife, calmly load up your family's bodies, and drive away, dump them and go to work as if nothing happened? Hmm. Does that makes sense?

7. For the next several hours, the father who loved his babies so much that he went out of his mind at the sight of them being harmed and killed for them (instead of trying to do one thing to save them), he calmly goes through all the friend's lists with police, tries every number available and steadily tries to track down his dead wife and rotting children. "I have no inclination as to where they are."

8. Then, this same, passionately adoring father who lost his mind in grief, two days later he grins and giggles and stares clear eyed at several reporters, not one tiny hint of exhaustion, crying, grief, nope. He stands there looking well rested, casually discussing the where abouts of his precious babies who are rotting in oil, and proudly shows of his shirt. A damn shirt. While his kids corpses float in oil.

So a man so passionate he erupts in homicidal fury, and anguish, he can calmly stand on a porch and discuss his dead children two days later? Is that remotely believable folks?

So while we may not be able to make the leap from an affair (which is present in half the family annihilator cases), to murder, it would seem that any rationally-minded human with critical thinking skills and the ability to use basic logic, could make the leap after hearing his ridiculous story and looking at the facts now.

Finally, lying about your murdered family is not the same as giving a job interview at which you're slightly nervous. A person so passionately in love with his kids that he erupts in homicidal fury when they're harmed is not the same man who two days later smirks and giggles with slight "nerves" as he lies about them.

No that kind of man is the kind who wails and screams like women at a Bangladesh funeral, demands that he be put out of his misery, needs to be hospitalized and never, ever tries to hide what happened.

Someone posted that it takes about 20 minutes for a body to turn blue after "loss of oxygen" death. Gruesome, but even though you point out that the monitor was B/W, his story doesn't account for many minutes of being away from SW, ie going downstairs. (I bet for garbage bags). So we're to believe that he was down there for 20 minutes, or more, to alot the time for her to strangle one child and be strangling the next one? No way Jose, he did it.

And I am really really curious why it seems that he only divulged this story after talking to his family. If I am wrong on that, let me know. The way I understand it is that this detailed story about baby monitors and SW killing the kids "evolved" after talking to family.

 

[Croyante]

I read somewhere, but cannot locate the article now, that when NUA dropped SW off at home CW had locked the door w additional lock and SW had to call him on his cell to come downstairs and let her in. Seems he wanted to be awake and aware of when she got home.

 

[FlossyMay]

Good question.

I know this is a really weird question. But what happens to the home and personal belongings in cases like this.
Is SW family in charge of selling things and or returning things (the Lexus) or is CW family in charge.
Do you sell all the clothes do you throw things away. The house now sits empty full of belongings for people whom are no longer here.
I know weird question.
I was watching a video on SW FB talking about the new fridge they just bought and just thought hum what happens to everything now.