GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #57

[sun16]

well spotted! Now lost to the Eire landfill.

Did LE ask Chris if/why he stopped off at that address for several minutes (at the housing development)?

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

Did the girls wore nightgownes, when they were found? This would indicate, that they at least were put to bed prior their murder. But I can not remember the description of their clothes. I also think (idependet whether he killed them first or not) that it would have been easier for him to smother them (probably with their pillows) to death, while they were already sleeping.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

This is out of Frank Rzucek's interview. Clearly Cindy Watts admitted to Shanann's mother that the nuts thing had happened. I feel really quite cross about this as obviously someone (probably our favourite VI) lied to @Tricia to get the conversation completely shut down (and was successful in doing so):

RZUCEK said that one time when SHANANN took the girls over to CHRIS’ parents’ house, possibly during the 2nd week of her vacation, SHANANN called him and said to get her away from CHRIS’ parents. RZUCEK said that there were nuts all over the house, and some kids were eating ice cream with nuts. SHANANN and CHRIS’ mother had words, and the mother told her it was a 'training lesson'. - Discovery Page 678

I know the TOS exists to protect members and VI's and I will abide by that, but IMO, this VI doesn't deserve that courtesy.

You got that right!

 

[ReckoningDay]

From the previous (closed) thread.



My opinion. NK is a calculating, money-conscious person anyhow. She probably was in love with CW, but now another side of hers shows.

I still feel that NK somehow suited CW more and that his marriage with SW was going downhill before NK. He was not interested in Thrive or sales. Ironically, the kids were probably the thing keeping this marriage together, so he decided to have one more , at the time, when emotionally, he was on a divergent course from SW.

It is a wrong decision per se, but in this situation, it proved to be deadly.

Look at it from NK's standpoint. She comes across as a money-conscious person. She is more educated than CW. She probably could make more out of CW, professionally, make him take some classes to advance. (In contrast to others, I would guess that CW's academic IQ was high enough, and he was technically bright.)

And he is good-looking, and he makes her happy. And her friends are getting married.

Divorcing a family with two kids and debts is difficult, but divorcing a family with the third one on the way would be financially crippling. And NK wants own kids, meaning, more expenses.

This is what it in essence came up to. The real barrier to CW's happiness - and he was obsessed with NK, as I can see now, like 8 years ago he was obsessed with SW - was pregnant SW. I don't know under what exact circumstances he killed her, but it seems to me that he accumulated hatred to her, and it was enough.

The same question I always ask myself, why kill the kids, I still don't understand, but either it had to do with the fact that NK was not prepared to be a stepmom, or he simply thought that it was easier to explain the disappearance of three people? Or perhaps killing three would have gotten rid of more problems, in his mind?

It is ugly as ugly can be.

Legally, NK is not guilty. Even if the affair was the catalyst, CW was an adult man, and these were his kids, it was his family. It was his decision, and these were his hands on their throats.

However, I think that morally, it is wrong for NK to profit from any book.

(That she is not going to be true is obvious from the article. Everything about that article is untrue).

It was wrong for Amber Frey to benefit, either, but at least Amber Frey was crucial in solving the SP's case. She was the critical witness. Amber taped their conversations. She did everything to help.

Here, we have a person who prolonged the investigation by deleting the messages.

In light of this, is there a law prohibiting the person who advised CW to pawn his "disappeared" wife's ring to profit from a book?

I agree with so much of this.

 

[sun16]

This might be a stupid question, but would there be evidence....anything?.....that they would have found (on devices or anywhere else) that they can choose not to include in the discovery documents? Or must everything they have be included in those docs?

 

[ReckoningDay]

I for one am glad a light is being shined on all of this filthy gutter cruising BS. Let these folks be seen for who and what they really are!!!

Yep!

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

Page 609: Chris begged LE not to put Kessinger’s name into the news because she had been through enough in her life. Hmm. ?

How empathetic... nice to know, that he cared more about the feelings of a woman he met for a few weeks than for his wife and his children. Disgusting.

 

[scdiv]

Did the girls wore nightgownes, when they were found? This would indicate, that they at least were put to bed prior their murder. But I can not remember the description of their clothes. I also think (idependet whether he killed them first or not) that it would have been easier for him to smother them (probably with their pillows) to death, while they were already sleeping.

Page 622 called it a nightgown.
The second autopsy performed was on 4-year-old, BELLA. BELLA was dressed in a pink nightgown covered in butterflies and a pair of underwear, which were removed and collected as evidence.

 

[NanZDrew]

I q

sorry nanZDREW might make who check what?
shanann?
are you talking about after she got home or while still coming?
she was a pretty open person I think if she was worried about the kids NUA would have come inside with her.
she left her friend in normal circumstances waving to her as she drove off that early morning.
think that says she wasn't feeling threatened at all.

jmo

I wondered if the baby monitor sends an alert to Shanann that there is noise in the room that caused her to text Chris and ask for pictures, or if she tried to look at them from her phone and he had turned it off. This would have been when she was out of town earlier that night. Long ago I thought one of her friends said she would check on her kids using her phone.

 

[tmar]

What CW actually said on his phone call to the school (discovery page 663), slightly snipped by me:

On 08/15/18 I, Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) Agent MATTHEW SAILOR, responded to Primrose School of Erie at Vista Ridge located at 2998 Ridge View Drive in Erie, Colorado to conduct follow up. Primrose is the school of BELLA WATTS and CELESTE WATTS, who did not show up for the first day of school on 08/13/18. It was reported that their father, CHRIS WATTS, called the school to advise they would not be attending.

Upon arrival at approximately 1220 hours, I met with the owner, CHRIS LANG, and spoke with him in his office. LANG said that both BELLA and CELESTE had attended the school last year, and that their mother, SHANANN WATTS, had pulled them out for the summer because she was taking them to North Carolina for an extended trip. LANG said that both girls were scheduled to start at the school again when the new year started on 08/13/18. LANG said that between 0800 hours and 0815 hours SHANNON MEYER received a phone call from the girls’ father, CHRIS WATTS, stating they would not be attending the school. LANG said that CHRIS then asked MEYER if the girls were at the school. LANG said that MEYER was “freaked out” by the phone call and later reported it to police.

[...]

I then spoke with MEYER by phone (speakerphone in the office). MEYER said that CHRIS called at about 0815 hours on 08/13/18, and said that after he introduced himself she told him that they were expecting to see the girls starting at the school and he replied that he was calling to let them know that the girls weren’t going to start. He said he wasn’t really sure what was going on yet, but that they were going to be moving and putting the house up for sale, and they were not sure if they were going to stay in this area. MEYER responded with, “That’s pretty crazy.” MEYER said that CHRIS then asked, “The girls aren’t there, are they?” MEYER said she told CHRIS no, she hadn’t seen them, but to let her check and see if they were clocked in, and they were not clocked in. CHRIS said ok, and to put them down as not coming in, and MEYER asked if he wanted to be placed on a waiting list in case something changes. CHRIS replied that they might as well, but they weren’t sure what was going on. MEYER told him to keep them updated, and that the teachers would be sad to not see the girls today. CHRIS thanked her and then hung up.

CW is a complete idiot.
He says the girls won't be coming.
Then asks if they are there.
Perhaps he asked 'if they were there', so when Shan'ann is known to be missing, this could be used, showing CW was not aware where Shan'ann had gone (therefore the girls).
All his lies about moving, is often used with liars, adding more info to their stories.
MOO.

 

[opalonyx]

and the mother told her it was a 'training lesson'

I have a feeling CW grew up enduring lots of "training lessons" as a child. Shanann was quoted as saying Cindy Watts wasn't "very nurturing" to Chris growing up in the document as well.

 

[MsBetsy]

This post is for @MsBetsy and anyone else is interested. In the last thread I mentioned about how Nichol K told investigators that she encouraged Chris to work on his marriage with Shanann. MsBetsy asked for where this was in the documents. Sorry, I posted several times last night in a rage and never mentioned the page numbers. Will be sure to do that from now on.

Anyway:

Starts at discovery page 569 (document page 502)
It is mentioned several times over the course of the interview that Nichol apparently encouraged Chris to work on his marriage. Chris repeatedly said it was Shanann who wanted out. At one point he apparently told Nichol he his trip to NC was to attempt to work on it with Shanann and find out if the marriage could be saved. He later apparently reported that Shanann's mind was made up and it was over. He also told Nichol that their marriage had been purely contractual for a long time, which we know is not true. The interview also does show that Nichol says she encouraged Chris to read articles about helping children through divorce, and he said "the kids will be fine" (dead).

Of course the texts show a different story to that, poor Shanann was beside herself with fear, pain and confusion.

Thanks! I just got finished reading about 50 pages of all that. I think Nickol was intimidated by the fact that he was married, or of Shanann, even though she did not know her personally. She seemed to ask a lot about her when they were having their affair. I think she was insecure, and had a history of choosing men who lied and treated her badly. This was alluded to in an interview with someone who knew her, maybe a co- worker, can't remember now. They said she had past boyfriends who lied to her, and she wondered what was wrong with her because she always seemed to pick the wrong person. She got that Right! Chris was beyond a doubt the worst so far!

So I think what she was doing was testing him, to see if he truly wanted to leave his wife. She was likely trying to protect her self from being burned. She may have suggested he work on the marriage to see what the outcome would be. Or to see if that's what he really wanted. At any rate hopefully she has learned a lesson and will learn to recognize the signs next time! What a nightmare. Imo

 

[tmar]

But now that she has proven herself a liar, why would it benefit us to read it? Or at least that is how I look at it.,

I hope no one here buys this ?? proposed book.
Make her feel, as insignificant as CW: no one cares.
MOO.

 

[Inthedetails]

Page 622 called it a nightgown.
The second autopsy performed was on 4-year-old, BELLA. BELLA was dressed in a pink nightgown covered in butterflies and a pair of underwear, which were removed and collected as evidence.

I just read in the doc that CW told officers he didn't remember what PJs the girls wore that night....like he couldn't remember the clothing under his hands as he stuffed each girl in the tank.

jmo

 

[k-mac]

What CW actually said on his phone call to the school (discovery page 663), slightly snipped by me:

On 08/15/18 I, Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) Agent MATTHEW SAILOR, responded to Primrose School of Erie at Vista Ridge located at 2998 Ridge View Drive in Erie, Colorado to conduct follow up. Primrose is the school of BELLA WATTS and CELESTE WATTS, who did not show up for the first day of school on 08/13/18. It was reported that their father, CHRIS WATTS, called the school to advise they would not be attending.

Upon arrival at approximately 1220 hours, I met with the owner, CHRIS LANG, and spoke with him in his office. LANG said that both BELLA and CELESTE had attended the school last year, and that their mother, SHANANN WATTS, had pulled them out for the summer because she was taking them to North Carolina for an extended trip. LANG said that both girls were scheduled to start at the school again when the new year started on 08/13/18. LANG said that between 0800 hours and 0815 hours SHANNON MEYER received a phone call from the girls’ father, CHRIS WATTS, stating they would not be attending the school. LANG said that CHRIS then asked MEYER if the girls were at the school. LANG said that MEYER was “freaked out” by the phone call and later reported it to police.

[...]

I then spoke with MEYER by phone (speakerphone in the office). MEYER said that CHRIS called at about 0815 hours on 08/13/18, and said that after he introduced himself she told him that they were expecting to see the girls starting at the school and he replied that he was calling to let them know that the girls weren’t going to start. He said he wasn’t really sure what was going on yet, but that they were going to be moving and putting the house up for sale, and they were not sure if they were going to stay in this area. MEYER responded with, “That’s pretty crazy.” MEYER said that CHRIS then asked, “The girls aren’t there, are they?” MEYER said she told CHRIS no, she hadn’t seen them, but to let her check and see if they were clocked in, and they were not clocked in. CHRIS said ok, and to put them down as not coming in, and MEYER asked if he wanted to be placed on a waiting list in case something changes. CHRIS replied that they might as well, but they weren’t sure what was going on. MEYER told him to keep them updated, and that the teachers would be sad to not see the girls today. CHRIS thanked her and then hung up.

lets give the 'grace ' of he killed them after shannan . somewhere between 2am and 5am …
as little as 3 hours after murdering 3 people (your family...your flesh and blood) he is making sure the preschool isn't charging him money for them kids that day.

so hes not that dumb.....he has a very structured plan on eliminating his family and tying up loose ends but seems to not comprehend that everything needs to actually tie in together.

tells preschool to cancel enrollment kids wont be coming here then asks if they are there??? (when he knows that they are not!!!!! just unnecessary)
so its on his mind straight as the doors open that he needs to cancel preschool but then goes on national television recorded the next day saying bella starts school next week.
words fail me.

sorry edited to add 4 people!......little mate nico xx

 

[sun16]

Remind me, do we know in general when the girls went to bed normally? Wasn’t it between 6:30-8pm? I am leaning towards, they came home from the party on Sunday, Skyped with SW’s parents, ate cold pizza, then the girls went to bed by maybe 6:30pm? Would thwy sleep for 9-10 hours? So Chris went out and grilled alone (neighbors saw him). I don’t have kids—would you grill outside for however long and leave them alone inside (if they were awake)? Then I’m torn on whether he killed the girls earlier evening, or after 2:30am (when SW tried to use her credit card and it was declined). Maybe he did kill everyone around 4am. I want to go back to the docs and see if he had phone activity on his device between 2:30am and 5:30am.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I have a feeling CW grew up enduring lots of "training lessons" as a child. Shanann was quoted as saying Cindy Watts wasn't "very nurturing" to Chris growing up in the document as well.

Horrible, horrible, horrible. There aren't enough bad adjectives in this language to describe those people. TOS or no TOS you know it's true. GAH! Poor Shan'Ann! She is at peace now though and that dysfunctional family's malfeasance and evil are laid bare for the world to see. God Bless Shan's family and friends. I send you all a warm Thanksgiving hug.

 

[tmar]

Did LE ask Chris if/why he stopped off at that address for several minutes (at the housing development)?

Another lie would result.
MOO.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

I just read in the doc that CW told officers he didn't remember what PJs the girls wore that night....like he couldn't remember the clothing under his hands as he stuffed each girl in the tank.

jmo

He also would have been the one to get them ready for bed. SW was out of town.

It seems CW conveniently can't remember a lot of basic things during these interviews.

Moo

 

[k-mac]

haven't seen anyone mention yet LE finding a makeshift bed in the basement.
chris admitted he slept there Thursday night.
when shanann has been begging him totouch and kiss her I cant imagine she banished hi down there.
why would he do that??
even if he doesn't love her 'no more' who doesnt wanna sleep in the master suite if welcomed to??????

creating drama for the sake of creating drama....wonder where he gets that from.

moo