GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[Jennifer17]

If they give him a tablet, he will probably google himself, and find his way here to WS....Hey Chris, how ya doing?

How'd that genius plan work out for ya?

Yay!

 

[Layla123]

After five weeks? Of course she knew he was a liar and she was lying to herself if she thought that he was going to marry her after a five week affair.

CW did tell LE that he was crazy about her. Never felt that way about anyone before. Ehh, maybe he was lying about that, too. Who knows?

 

[kiwilaura]

Was the text he sent to her 'divorce finalised' in the discovery documents?

In her interviews, she never appears to tell LE that he told her his divorce was finalised. It was only ever that he was going through a separation. Even when he went to NC for a week, she said it was so he could work on his marriage. He reportedly told her after that week that Shanann was adamant she did not want to make it work.

Seems like the "divorced finalised" bit only came out for the media interviews. MOO

 

[Jennifer17]

In her interviews, she never appears to tell LE that he told her his divorce was finalised. It was only ever that he was going through a separation. Even when he went to NC for a week, she said it was so he could work on his marriage. He reportedly told her after that week that Shanann was adamant she did not want to make it work.

Seems like the "divorced finalised" bit only came out for the media interviews. MOO

Liars and very shallow people all of them.

 

[kiwilaura]

I don't put much weight on the wedding dress searches. Her closest friend was newly engaged and no doubt Nichol would end up a bridesmaid. I still google wedding dresses when friends are getting married. Hell, sometimes I just do it for fun.

On the other hand the "will man marry his mistress" search may prove me wrong.

She's playing the innocent card, but she is a smart woman and I don't buy she was that naive. However she is a smart woman to be playing the innocent card!

 

[mrjitty]

I see a lot of people talking about Chris being a narcissist, and I agree. He is likely a narcissistic sociopath. Disclaimer: I’ve never met him and while I’ve worked as a professional for people with abnormal psychology, behaviors, mental health, and personality disorders for many years, I can no way diagnose ANYONE, let alone someone I’ve never met.

That being said, please keep in mind as I explain, that I am VERY familiar with dealing with and recognizing personality disorders.

My ex husband was a narcissist. It took me 5 years of living with this man to realize this. It’s hard to imagine how it took so long, and looking back all the signs and red flags are there. But as adults, these men (and women) have spent their entire lives covering up their lack of empathy and manipulating everyone around them. Shannan likely didn’t see his underlying manipulation, and people close to her likely didn’t either. My mother still thinks my ex husband is a wonderful guy and that I exaggerate the issues he causes.

People often confuse sociopaths with psychopaths. The two are not interchangeable. Psychopaths are much more likely to be filled with rage and act out violently. Narcissistic sociopaths aren’t usually any more violent than a person without a personality disorder. It’s completely possible (and likely, based on how others have described Chris) that he wasn’t filled with rage at all. In the documents it’s even stated that the act of strangling Shannan was calm and methodical (unsure of actual terms used but same idea), not something done in a fit of anger.

In reality, he probably was NOT angry at Shannan or the girls for anything, including getting in the way of his new relationship. But narcissists have trouble forming meaningful relationships and emotional bonds, and the people in their lives are disposable. They care about themselves and what makes them happy. His thinking was more along the lines of “problem solving”. ‘Nichol makes me happy. My family is no longer what’s making me happy. I should get rid of my family.’

Hi Amstorrs

I find this very interesting.

As for the rage - i suspect he did feel it during the act of murder of SW along with elation etc. We know he is capable of experiencing strong emotion.

Interesting he could speak positively of the kids in a round about way in the interviews, but not of SW.

However I agree that the motivation for the murders was simply that they were in his way.

 

[k-mac]

Really? You think she knew he was a liar? And still dreamed of marrying him?

yes
its different when your in love.
I do think she felt his lies he was telling other people were all justified so they could be together...it wasn't forever. eventually they could shout their love from the rooftops and buy that beautiful wedding dress she dreamed of and live happily ever after.

its all necessary evil.(the lying)
no doubt to me she watched those tv interviews and she fell out of love with him instantly and knew she needed to jump that sinking ship.

who could blame her for that?

moo

 

[mrjitty]

I'm pretty sure NK's attorney locked in immunity when NK came forward to LE? (after googling Amber Frey's book deal and if people liked AF or hated her.)
Hopefully others can chime in here.

moo

I don't think they would do that before they understood how she fitted?

IIRC her first interview was on the 16th and the Police had put in place a process to locate and speak to her sooner than that.

So I wonder what discussions, if any, took place before the 16th?

e.g. if she had a lawyer involved etc

Something I am wondering about is if they first interviewed her on the 16th (an on the record interview) whether they were already talking to her the day before, and 16th was simply the earliest everyone agreed to an interview?

 

[Layla123]

I don't think they would do that before they understood how she fitted?

IIRC her first interview was on the 16th and the Police had put in place a process to locate and speak to her sooner than that.

So I wonder what discussions, if any, took place before the 16th?

e.g. if she had a lawyer involved etc

Something I am wondering about is if they first interviewed her on the 16th (an on the record interview) whether they were already talking to her the day before, and 16th was simply the earliest everyone agreed to an interview?

Do you have a link for, “the Police had put in place a process to locate and speak to her sooner than that.”
NK told the Denver Post she called the police Wednesday morning 8/16.
Christopher Watts girlfriend Nichol Kessinger speaks about Frederick murders

 

[Seattle1]

If they give him a tablet, he will probably google himself, and find his way here to WS....Hey Chris, how ya doing?

How'd that genius plan work out for ya?

Lol...

 

[Seattle1]

I don't put much weight on the wedding dress searches. Her closest friend was newly engaged and no doubt Nichol would end up a bridesmaid. I still google wedding dresses when friends are getting married. Hell, sometimes I just do it for fun.

On the other hand the "will man marry his mistress" search may prove me wrong.

She's playing the innocent card, but she is a smart woman and I don't buy she was that naive. However she is a smart woman to be playing the innocent card!

She's 30 years old!!

 

[Seattle1]

Do you have a link for, “the Police had put in place a process to locate and speak to her sooner than that.”
NK told the Denver Post she called the police Wednesday morning 8/16.
Christopher Watts girlfriend Nichol Kessinger speaks about Frederick murders

I think it's best to treat everything cited in the Denver Post interview for what it was: public relations and damage control. Discovery are the facts gathered by investigators that were going to be used in court. MOO

 

[katydid23]

I think it's best to treat everything cited in the Denver Post interview for what it was: public relations and damage control. Discovery are the facts gathered by investigators that were going to be used in court. MOO

Yes. That interview was rolled out by a Crisis Control attorney and team of PR experts. They gave her a makeover, a photo shoot, and designed the questions and answers to make her seem like a sympathetic victim. Some of the details cash with things in the document dump.

 

[Layla123]

I think it's best to treat everything cited in the Denver Post interview for what it was: public relations and damage control. Discovery are the facts gathered by investigators that were going to be used in court. MOO

The discovery doesn’t say what time she called. Everyone here keeps saying she called in the afternoon, but I haven’t seen that anywhere. I keep asking for links, but so far, none. I do think she’s a victim of CW, too. I hate to see her being treated like the Scarlet Letter if the things people are saying aren’t true. For example, everyone says they are sure she looked up SW on Facebook. NK told LE she didn’t have FB. If you don’t have FB, you don’t see much when searching people on FB.

 

[Layla123]

Yes. That interview was rolled out by a Crisis Control attorney and team of PR experts. They gave her a makeover, a photo shoot, and designed the questions and answers to make her seem like a sympathetic victim. Some of the details cash with things in the document dump.

What details?

 

[mtnlites]

That was before she met him

She had a fusion due to degeneration of the discs in her neck. It's called an Anterior Disectomy and Fusion with an Arthropolasty implant. I've had the same surgery. It's not generally something that's caused by abuse; I know many people with connective tissue disorders, as well as Lupus, who have had the same issues. It's a common procedure.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't think I'll ever recover from reading how CW simply told SW, his 15 week pregnant wife, that they were "not compatible," and he didn't think he wanted the baby. If I didn't know better, I would never believe this was a conversation between a husband and wife together for 8 years. Unbelievable... (Discovery pg. 97).

Yes it's truly a kick to the gut and would have been an absolute awakening jolt to her psyche. I think that's probably why she was vomiting all night, not because of what she ate or sudden onset of pregnancy sickness.

She exclaimed 'I don't know him', just think about those words, that was her truth - her friend was so alarmed by that she asked 'what do you mean?' Her friend was momentarily scared and Shanann was terrified. That was THE moment she should have paid attention. She saw it, her body had a physical reaction to it, he showed her that he was not at all the man she thought she knew. Appropriate compassion and guilt and empathy for her was absent and in its place was brutal indifference and utterly cold heartless abandonment. He showed her he was dangerous to her emotional well-being. It's a step up for her to think she was in physical danger, but someone who can cast you adrift just like that doesn't deserve the chance to show you whether they are capable of physically harming you. He had already stuck the knife in her heart, the center that joined them.

It's natural IMO to want to push away such world shattering knowledge, I call it higher wisdom, and to want so badly to get back to the safety of the old world one inhabited, but if only she had done what she said she felt like doing - stayed in NC. I think there is a valuable lesson in this. Not a lesson in avoiding a murdering sociopath but in understanding when we are working against our higher wisdom. She saw the old Chris was just an illusion and while it was painful and shocking to accept that reality she also was terrified by what she had seen and she begged him to make her feel safe. That is the will kicking back against or interfering with the body's truth.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I can't get the thought out of my head that the entire family, Chris his mother and his sister and his father annihilated her. They all did.

Yes. And they knew it too. They knew all the things they’d said and done right up until the day she was murdered. His ridiculous story was their “out” and they were desperate to believe it. Because if it wasn’t true, they knew they played a part.

They constantly demonized Shan’ann as nothing but trash to CW, so when he actually threw her out like trash why are they surprised?

They even treated their beautiful grandchildren as less than their other grandchildren, and were willing to risk their lives with nutgate out of nothing but pure spite. Nico was barely mentioned other than to say their precious son didn’t even want him (which he said AFTER he got her pregnant!).

Honestly this whole thing turned out to be so much more heinous, evil and heartbreaking than I could have ever imagined in the beginning.

 

[Layla123]

Yes it's truly a kick to the gut and would have been an absolute awakening jolt to her psyche. I think that's probably why she was vomiting all night, not because of what she ate or sudden onset of pregnancy sickness.

She exclaimed 'I don't know him', just think about those words, that was her truth - her friend was so alarmed by that she asked 'what do you mean?' Her friend was momentarily scared and Shanann was terrified. That was THE moment she should have paid attention. She saw it, her body had a physical reaction to it, he showed her that he was not at all the man she thought she knew. Appropriate compassion and guilt and empathy for her was absent and in its place was brutal indifference and utterly cold heartless abandonment. He showed her he was dangerous to her emotional well-being. It's a step up for her to think she was in physical danger, but someone who can cast you adrift just like that doesn't deserve the chance to show you whether they are capable of physically harming you. They have already stuck the knife in your heart, the place that joined them.

It's natural IMO to want to push away such world shattering knowledge, I call it higher wisdom, and to want so badly to get back to the safety of the old world one inhabited, but if only she had done what she said she felt like doing - stayed in NC. I think there is a valuable lesson in this. Not a lesson in avoiding a murdering sociopath but in understanding when we are working against our higher wisdom. She saw the old Chris was just an illusion and while it was painful and shocking to accept that reality she also was terrified by what she had seen and she begged him to make her feel safe. That is the will kicking back against or interfering with the body's truth.

It was sickening when CW expressed concern about NK’s welfare if the police dragged her into the investigation. After he’d just murdered SW. He didn’t give a rat’s behind about Shanann.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Yes it's truly a kick to the gut and would have been an absolute awakening jolt to her psyche. I think that's probably why she was vomiting all night, not because of what she ate or sudden onset of pregnancy sickness.

She exclaimed 'I don't know him', just think about those words, that was her truth - her friend was so alarmed by that she asked 'what do you mean?' Her friend was momentarily scared and Shanann was terrified. That was THE moment she should have paid attention. She saw it, her body had a physical reaction to it, he showed her that he was not at all the man she thought she knew. Appropriate compassion and guilt and empathy for her was absent and in its place was brutal indifference and utterly cold heartless abandonment. He showed her he was dangerous to her emotional well-being. It's a step up for her to think she was in physical danger, but someone who can cast you adrift just like that doesn't deserve the chance to show you whether they are capable of physically harming you. He had already stuck the knife in her heart, the center that joined them.

It's natural IMO to want to push away such world shattering knowledge, I call it higher wisdom, and to want so badly to get back to the safety of the old world one inhabited, but if only she had done what she said she felt like doing - stayed in NC. I think there is a valuable lesson in this. Not a lesson in avoiding a murdering sociopath but in understanding when we are working against our higher wisdom. She saw the old Chris was just an illusion and while it was painful and shocking to accept that reality she also was terrified by what she had seen and she begged him to make her feel safe. That is the will kicking back against or interfering with the body's truth.

You really nailed it. That’s exactly what it would have been like for her.