GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[Layla123]

Discovery Page 1465 & 1466 (pdf 1321 & 1322)

View attachment 157294
View attachment 157295

But it doesn’t say “had to put in a process to locate and speak to.”

 

[Layla123]

I couldn't resolve this in my read through.

It's clear the police began to look for her independently as her existence arose in the course of the investigation. A packet was put together for investigators - presumably containing available info on where she lived etc.

Who called who first doesn't appear to be confirmed in the file.

What I am wondering about is if she approached police through her lawyer in which case, it might explain why the interview didn't happen immediately

I thought she went first to the police with her father, and second to the newspaper with her attorney.

 

[mrjitty]

What details?

I think the most important detail of all is whether she really contacted the police, or whether they found her first.

 

[mrjitty]

But it doesn’t say “had to put in a process to locate and speak to.”

The process I meant is "full and complete Law Enforcement Packet" in order that officers could locate the witness and thus speak to her

Clearly this happened before the witness contacted LE independently, if indeed she did.

I guess it is most likely officers called her.

 

[Layla123]

The process I meant is "full and complete Law Enforcement Packet" in order that officers could locate the witness and thus speak to her

Clearly this happened before the witness contacted LE independently, if indeed she did.

I guess it is most likely officers called her.

I’m not so sure. Also, from the Discovery, it looks like NK was interviewed by the police, the CBI, and the FBI, all on separate occasions. None of them give the times of the meetings.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I’m not sure. Also, from the Discovery, it looks like NK was interviewed by the police, the CBI, and the FBI, all on separate occasions. None of them give the times of the meetings.

They need PommyMommy, everything would be complete and precise.

 

[mrjitty]

I’m not sure. Also, from the Discovery, it looks like NK was interviewed by the police, the CBI, and the FBI, all on separate occasions. None of them give the times of the meetings.

Yes.

So far I didn't find anything which disproves that NK contacted the police like she claimed.

It seems the police wanted to complete background processes and looked at her phone traffic before they spoke to her.

There many be good reasons why the first interview didn't take place until the next day.

Who contacted who first is not clear - IMO

if someone knows different - I would appreciate the link!

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I have read and re-read the interrogation notes with SA Coder a dozen times or more, and each time, I'm increasingly grateful that there was no trial in this case... I can't help but think that, if I were a juror on this case, and only had access to evidence deemed admissible by a court (the extent of which we'll never know, of course), I honestly may have had a hard time convicting this 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. SO MUCH damning information never makes it in front of a jury, often simply because it's deemed too 'prejudicial'. How much of the information that we've all learned here, and been sickened by, would really have been allowed to be presented to a jury? And what sort of antics could the defence team (be it the PD, or some high-profile, flashy defence attorney) have come up with to prevent the truth from being heard? Had I not had the benefit of following the case so closely here, would I have been 100% convinced that CW was the one who smothered those poor little babies, after hearing his concocted story? With each bit of information I find myself thinking,'If I didn't know that, would I be able to convict?' It makes it really hard to fall asleep at night, to be honest. Tormented by all that we know in this case, and knowing that there are, indeed, others who've gotten away with sick, disgusting crimes because the jury just didn't get to hear all that was known. Totally senseless and completely heartbreaking. I just cannot fathom the pain and devastation that Shanann's family is experiencing, considering how deeply saddened and angry so many of us absolute strangers are feeling. My thoughts and prayers continue to go out to all of Shanann's family, friends, and all of the investigators and other heroes who helped to bring justice in this case.

“Tormented” is a very accurate description of what this case has done to me and and most of us here, I’m sure.
However, I cannot imagine not being able to find him guilty of first degree murder.

 

[Seattle1]

The discovery doesn’t say what time she called. Everyone here keeps saying she called in the afternoon, but I haven’t seen that anywhere. I keep asking for links, but so far, none. I do think she’s a victim of CW, too. I hate to see her being treated like the Scarlet Letter if the things people are saying aren’t true. For example, everyone says they are sure she looked up SW on Facebook. NK told LE she didn’t have FB. If you don’t have FB, you don’t see much when searching people on FB.

Of course NK was played by CW, but the real victims here are dead. Also, I'm not on FB, but I can still see SW unlocked or open FB videos but that's not what we're talking about. What's true is that NK conducted searches for CW and SW as far back as 8/31/17. It's no typo. Proof of this is in the discovery documents that NK deleted these searches from her history which were recovered by investigators. LE analyzed NK's phone under a search warrant using Axiom and Cellebrite analysis tools...It's all all in the document dump. Again, Denver Post is a public relations piece that mostly contradicts the evidence. It doesn't follow that you want support to confirm the newspaper report. There's no scarlet letter, but it's NK that's being untruthful. MOO

 

[rogue ant]

Is there a page we can check periodically to see if the DA's office has released the 3TB of additional material that's been mentioned ?

 

[Layla123]

“Tormented” is a very accurate description of what this case has done to me and and most of us here, I’m sure.
However, I cannot imagine not being able to find him guilty of first degree murder.

Me either. I think the fact that CW said he watched SW strangle Celeste with her hands around her child’s neck, and actually demonstrated the act with his own hands for the police, and then having the COD turn out to be smothering, instead, would have been the thing that convinced a jury that he was guilty of all four murders.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

The following paragraphs describe the main external and internal measures differentiating the five security levels of prison facilities in Colorado, from the highest to lowest levels.

Correctional Facility Security Levels – External Measures Internal Measures

Level V

• Double perimeter fencing with razor wire and detection devices

• Towers or stun-lethal fencing

• Continuous patrol of perimeter

• Sally ports (double gates to closely monitor the movement to and from a restricted area)

• Housing in cells with bars on all openings and with sally-port doors to outside operated by a control center

• Remote controlled sliding and lockable cell doors

Level IV

• Double perimeter fencing and/or razor wire with detection devices

• Towers

• Continuous patrol of perimeter

• Housing in cells with bars on all openings

• Remote controlled hinged or sliding cell doors that are lockable from the control area

Level III

• Wall and/or double perimeter fencing with razor wire and detection devices

• Towers

• Continuous patrol of perimeter

• Housing in cells, rooms, or dormitories with bars on window openings

• Hinged lockable cell doors

Level II

• Designated boundaries with single or double perimeter fencing

• Periodic patrol of perimeter

• Housing in modular units, cells, or dormitories

• Hinged cell doors with lockable exterior doors

Level I

• Designated boundaries

• Housing in individual rooms or dormitories

• Non-security cell doors with lockable exterior doors

Department of Corrections |

My guess is Level V. Eww, “Le-Vel”...how ironic.

 

[Layla123]

Of course NK was played by CW, but the real victims here are dead. Also, I'm not on FB, but I can still see SW unlocked or open FB videos but that's not what we're talking about. What's true is that NK conducted searches for CW and SW as far back as 8/31/17. It's no typo. Proof of this is in the discovery documents that NK deleted these searches from her history which were recovered by investigators. LE analyzed NK's phone under a search warrant using Axiom and Cellebrite analysis tools...It's all all in the document dump. Again, Denver Post is a public relations piece that mostly contradicts the evidence. It doesn't follow that you want support to confirm the newspaper report. There's no scarlet letter, but it's NK that's being untruthful. MOO

Absolutely, the real victims are dead. I’m not sure NK lied about the dates. I think the discovery would have contained more evidence if there was any more contact between CW and NK. All I know from FB is if I go into someone’s page from Safari, and I’m not logged in, I don’t see much. I have to log in. Also, SW didn’t post much over the Summer, if NK went to her FB page, it may have looked to her like the marriage was over, and whatever SW posted was for appearances for her business, like many people here thought. It says in the Discovery that NK agreed to all LE searches and gave them everything they asked for. At least, from what I saw.

ETA: As for the deleted messages, don’t you think NK is smart enough to know that just because she deletes messages on her phone, it doesn’t mean LE can’t get them somewhere else? Can you see the possibility that she just wanted nothing more to do with him? She wanted to erase him from her life? Anything about him creeped her out at that point, not realizing how important those messages would be to the investigation
I’m not saying she’s a great person or a saint, and I do wonder if Rourke used less than flattering words about her because she went to the press before the sentencing hearing without clearing it with the District Attorney’s Office, first? I don’t know that for a fact, but it would surprise me if the DA was okay with her doing that.

 

[Madison418]

Not so deep down, IMO. Right up there on the top dominating all.

AMEN. I will never forget, "What happened to Chris? Shanann happened to Chris!" Who says that about their dead daughter in law??

 

[NuttMegg]

On the Crime/Scandal podcast they pointed out that CW cut his mother out, and only wanted to talk to his father. I recall the tidbit in the doc dump where RW said he had to text/call his DAUGHTER after the meeting during the interrogation, when CW came up with his story. RW, IIRC, did not say I've got to contact Cindy.

 

[AbbyG]

Has someone put together a list indicating the murders were premeditated? I think there are quite a number of explicit, specific things that CW did that show this

My god, what was he planning when he wrote that?

He was certainly planning to kill his children and Shannan. "I would never hurt my children or my wife" makes no sense if that's not a planned outcome that he needs to deny in advance.

He was also planning to disappear and stage his own death IMO. Because if he was planning on injuring himself he would still be alive to tell them to investigate his wife. I will never believe he intended to kill himself - he has not demonstrated an ounce of suicidal ideation or self-reproach or wanting to die for anything he did. And that wouldn't leave Shanann dead - she would have to remain alive to kill him. So was it to be an accident like where all the bodies turn up but not his? A drowning at sea for instance.

I believe he wrote the letter and not his family because he put in "hurt myself" and that wasn't a necessary ruse if it was written after the event when they knew she never attacked him. He never once mentioned having to kill her in self-defense to anyone, and even if he did make that claim later he wasn't hurt in the process so 'I would never hurt myself' is once again redundant.

If he planned on a life with NK, he couldn't pull off something like staging his own death unless she was in on it and would 'disappear' with him.

Did he plan for Shanann and the girls to disappear, and then say to NK I can't handle that everyone is pointing the finger at me so I need to move away and get a new identity, break ties with everyone (including his family who might think he did kill his family if they knew about his infidelity - he did take a photo of the family portrait maybe as a final memento of them and he also hadn't told his dad about the affair until the night he was charged), thinking she would be delighted to go with him now that he was free of Shanann and the girls. Then hope that his family would open the letter and everyone would think Shanann was still alive and had returned to kill him and hide his body in revenge for him wanting a divorce.

Far fetched? People with murdering sociopathic mindsets have been known to do crazy things like this and start new lives on the other side of the world with new identities. I think he thought he would be able to spin NK a convincing enough story about how she would also be suspected in their disappearance, to get her to change her identity too. I also think if he had gotten away with this initially he would have moved Shanann's body to a safer location away from his workplace, and that is why he left the rake head as a marker. This was a long term plan with a lot of cleaning up planned for those weeks ahead, if he survived the scrutiny of that first day.

It's the only way I can interpret his crazy letter.

Once again I am reminded how NUA is to be congratulated.

Interesting, though I still believe the family concocted that ridiculous letter. I think they added the part about possible self-harm because they have been busy painting a false picture of Shan'ann as the unstable and violent one; it's a misdirect to suggest it could have gone either way, and if he hadn't killed her (for killing the kids, in his fiction) she might have killed him. I think it was a desperate and fraudulent ploy by Mother & Sister Watts trying to save their cold-hearted boy, when they hoped he would go to trial and "fight, fight to the end" (with lies). IMO MOO.

 

[LAHOLLA]

Hey guys, I’m new here but so glad to have found this forum. I’m a true crime junkie anyway, but this case has consumed my mind for a number of reasons.

Just wanted to share a couple thoughts I had while catching up this morning.

NK is a liar but I don’t think she expected it to come to this. I remember reading that CW told her he didn’t have the money to move out right now. I think she believed him initially when he said SW took the kids and left and I think she suggested pawning the rings bc she expected his family to return and was desperate to find a way to get him out of that house. I think she deleted a lot bc she was embarrassed by the content. The only thing I believe she’s guilty of is being an immoral liar.

I also think CW had his “change of heart” and agreed to go to Aspen bc I believe he was going to arrange an accident while they were there. I think the timeline got moved up possibly bc of a convo with NK at dinner the night before. You know she wasn’t happy that SW and the kids were back and I do feel like she pressured him. With no money to move, I think he felt stuck. Then SW came home... He now has both a discontented mistress and a discontented wife.

I do think the fact that he told her he would go with her to take Bella to school yet didn’t mention needing to take off in his texts to co-workers show that he moved his timeline up before SW got home. I want to believe that the kids were killed bc Bella woke up but honestly, he’s a monster...

 

[The Farm]

Welcome LAHOLLA! I too think he might have been planning something on the Aspen trip but decided otherwise. I also think there are so many things that will never have answers to because it would always be hard to believe anything that came out of his mouth in the future if he said something like ok, this is the way it went down. I doubt that will ever happen anyway.

 

[Madison418]

Hey guys, I’m new here but so glad to have found this forum. I’m a true crime junkie anyway, but this case has consumed my mind for a number of reasons.

Just wanted to share a couple thoughts I had while catching up this morning.

NK is a liar but I don’t think she expected it to come to this. I remember reading that CW told her he didn’t have the money to move out right now. I think she believed him initially when he said SW took the kids and left and I think she suggested pawning the rings bc she expected his family to return and was desperate to find a way to get him out of that house. I think she deleted a lot bc she was embarrassed by the content. The only thing I believe she’s guilty of is being an immoral liar.

I also think CW had his “change of heart” and agreed to go to Aspen bc I believe he was going to arrange an accident while they were there. I think the timeline got moved up possibly bc of a convo with NK at dinner the night before. You know she wasn’t happy that SW and the kids were back and I do feel like she pressured him. With no money to move, I think he felt stuck. Then SW came home... He now has both a discontented mistress and a discontented wife.

I do think the fact that he told her he would go with her to take Bella to school yet didn’t mention needing to take off in his texts to co-workers show that he moved his timeline up before SW got home. I want to believe that the kids were killed bc Bella woke up but honestly, he’s a monster...

Welcome! And great first post There are some very good points here

 

[LAHOLLA]

Thank you!