GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[LAHOLLA]

Welcome LAHOLLA! I too think he might have been planning something on the Aspen trip but decided otherwise. I also think there are so many things that will never have answers to because it would always be hard to believe anything that came out of his mouth in the future if he said something like ok, this is the way it went down. I doubt that will ever happen anyway.

I know . As much as I want to know what truly transpired that morning, I wish he would tell the truth to silence his fans more than anything.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Absolutely, the real victims are dead. I’m not sure NK lied about the dates. I think the discovery would have contained more evidence if there was any more contact between CW and NK. All I know from FB is if I go into someone’s page from Safari, and I’m not logged in, I don’t see much. I have to log in. Also, SW didn’t post much over the Summer, if NK went to her FB page, it may have looked to her like the marriage was over, and whatever SW posted was for appearances for her business, like many people here thought. It says in the Discovery that NK agreed to all LE searches and gave them everything they asked for. At least, from what I saw.

ETA: As for the deleted messages, don’t you think NK is smart enough to know that just because she deletes messages on her phone, it doesn’t mean LE can’t get them somewhere else? Can you see the possibility that she just wanted nothing more to do with him? She wanted to erase him from her life? Anything about him creeped her out at that point, not realizing how important those messages would be to the investigation
I’m not saying she’s a great person or a saint, and I do wonder if Rourke used less than flattering words about her because she went to the press before the sentencing hearing without clearing it with the District Attorney’s Office, first? I don’t know that for a fact, but it would surprise me if the DA was okay with her doing that.

IIRC she did do a search about whether or not the cops can find deleted text messages, or words to that effect.
I’m sorry, but she’s suspicious to me. A home wrecker, questionable morals, “pawn the ring”, claims she barely knew him but searching for wedding dresses, mistresses..
I hope she’s read the Discovery report and realizes if she did end up with CW, she’d also end up like Shanann one day.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I know . As much as I want to know what truly transpired that morning, I wish he would tell the truth to silence his fans more than anything.

No, I think he rather enjoys all of the attention he’s getting with every one trying to figure it out. Did you read those letters he received from strange women wanting to be his pen pal??? Unbelievable.

 

[esayer]

Latest mugshot.

Beard is gone...I wonder if he thinks that will make him less recognisable or if it’s a regulation....

He doesn't have all his beauty products, boo hoo.

 

[AbbyG]

Welcome LAHOLLA! I too think he might have been planning something on the Aspen trip but decided otherwise. I also think there are so many things that will never have answers to because it would always be hard to believe anything that came out of his mouth in the future if he said something like ok, this is the way it went down. I doubt that will ever happen anyway.

Regarding Aspen, I believe there are two possibilities: 1) CW never planned to go there with Shan'ann. He is such a cold, selfish prick, it seems to me he would not even endure a few hours of an intimate weekend with his no-longer-wanted pregnant wife so this was all just a pretense. He somehow hoped he would still be able to go away -- with NK, after his murders. 2) He did plan to kill her there -- but if that is the case, didn't NK search for remote resort locations or something like that? That led me to believe he always planned to take NK not his wife, but if NK did the search as well, was she going to help him with this planned "accident"? Please correct me if I have confused who did the search -- I know SW was trying to find a place to go away and make the booking, but didn't NK actually search for "remote" places? So either she knew he was married enough that it had to be remote, or she was aiding him??

 

[AbbyG]

He doesn't have all his beauty products, boo hoo.

I believe the hair product purchase attempt on Shan'ann's computer in the middle of the night may well have been CW. Did they ever say specifically what product it was?

 

[ilovewings]

My god, what was he planning when he wrote that?

He was certainly planning to kill his children and Shannan. "I would never hurt my children or my wife" makes no sense if that's not a planned outcome that he needs to deny in advance.

He was also planning to disappear and stage his own death IMO. Because if he was planning on injuring himself he would still be alive to tell them to investigate his wife. I will never believe he intended to kill himself - he has not demonstrated an ounce of suicidal ideation or self-reproach or wanting to die for anything he did. And that wouldn't leave Shanann dead - she would have to remain alive to kill him. So was it to be an accident like where all the bodies turn up but not his? A drowning at sea for instance.

I believe he wrote the letter and not his family because he put in "hurt myself" and that wasn't a necessary ruse if it was written after the event when they knew she never attacked him. He never once mentioned having to kill her in self-defense to anyone, and even if he did make that claim later he wasn't hurt in the process so 'I would never hurt myself' is once again redundant.

If he planned on a life with NK, he couldn't pull off something like staging his own death unless she was in on it and would 'disappear' with him.

Did he plan for Shanann and the girls to disappear, and then say to NK I can't handle that everyone is pointing the finger at me so I need to move away and get a new identity, break ties with everyone (including his family who might think he did kill his family if they knew about his infidelity - he did take a photo of the family portrait maybe as a final memento of them and he also hadn't told his dad about the affair until the night he was charged), thinking she would be delighted to go with him now that he was free of Shanann and the girls. Then hope that his family would open the letter and everyone would think Shanann was still alive and had returned to kill him and hide his body in revenge for him wanting a divorce.

Far fetched? People with murdering sociopathic mindsets have been known to do crazy things like this and start new lives on the other side of the world with new identities. I think he thought he would be able to spin NK a convincing enough story about how she would also be suspected in their disappearance, to get her to change her identity too. I also think if he had gotten away with this initially he would have moved Shanann's body to a safer location away from his workplace, and that is why he left the rake head as a marker. This was a long term plan with a lot of cleaning up planned for those weeks ahead, if he survived the scrutiny of that first day.

It's the only way I can interpret his crazy letter.

Once again I am reminded how NUA is to be congratulated.

Is there somewhere i could view this letter??? thanks in advance

 

[daisy6441]

No, I think he rather enjoys all of the attention he’s getting with every one trying to figure it out. Did you read those letters he received from strange women wanting to be his pen pal??? Unbelievable.

Not surprising. He will probably have women begging to marry him just like Manson.
All the talk about him getting killed or beat up in prison is not likely to happen. He is going into a place where there are hundreds of people just like him. Unless he does something to make some one mad they likely won't give two ***** about him. And you wouldn't want them to anyway because then his family gets to sue and get a payout from the state for not insuring his safety in prison.

 

[Mamamiamaria]

I think the most important detail of all is whether she really contacted the police, or whether they found her first.

My guess is she contacted the police once she found out they knew about her. Anadarko notified police of her existence, I think she found this out and decided to make contact to make herself look good. imo

 

[Tortoise]

Is there somewhere i could view this letter??? thanks in advance

It's been typed out in the post I was replying to. But as for the original, some people here say they have seen it but I don't think it's linkable - not an approved media source. MOO.

 

[ilovewings]

It's been typed out in the post I was replying to. But as for the original, some people here say they have seen it but I don't think it's linkable - not an approved media source. MOO.

Thanks for the info

 

[GraceVPrice]

Can we talk about the photo of NK in her bikini/underwear, anyone think was this taken in the Watts house? Scouring video looking for a video with the girls in the bathroom.

 

[kirkassoc]

At least he knows he won't be shoved into a tank of crude oil with his buttocks being scraped by, and his hair snagging on the rough edge of the hole. I wonder if his relatives get his body back if he dies in the slammer. Larry?

I would assume he might outlive his parents. I don't believe his sister would want the expense of burying him, JMO. I believe the prison system might provide a grave plot for "unclaimed" deceased prisoners? I wonder.

 

[PommyMommy]

How could NK know Anadarko called LE? She called LE, too. It took her awhile to put CW’s lies together and figure out he wasn’t being honest about the disappearance of his family. She was totally creeped out and didn’t want anything more to do with him. She deleted his texts and brought his clothes LE because she wanted nothing more to do with him. She never wanted to see him again. I can understand that emotion, I’ve done that before. The old “I want to wash that man right out of my hair,” routine. When Anadarko called LE they said CW and another employee may be having an affair. They didn’t know for sure until NK told them. It doesn’t say in the discovery what time NK called LE. She told the Denver Post she called in the morning. I feel really bad for her. Her life is destroyed. After this discovery drop revealing all of her most personal thoughts and conversations, will anyone ever volunteer to be a witness again? As for the wedding dresses, a lot of women fantasize about wedding dresses. She thought she was in love with him, he told her his marriage was over, he was getting a divorce. He spent 4-5 days a week with her. How could she have known? I’m not sure about that September 2017 date, I’d like to know if it’s a typo. I wish someone would ask Rourke if that’s right, if it is, then I’ll have to rethink all this.

I sympathized with her before she was named publicly and after the Denver Post article was published, but it is evident that she was not completely forthcoming. If she genuinely believed CW should repair his relationship with Shanann as she said she encouraged him to do, she would have ended the affair. Instead, she suggested he shut down his Facebook account and open a separate bank account, among other things. I still consider her a victim. I just don't have as much sympathy for her as I did initially. I do hope she gets the help she needs and does not try to profit from this tragedy, because she is in stark contrast to Amber Frey. MOO

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

I'm sorry if this falls in a weird spot...

I see a lot of Cindy A in Cindy W but something that strikes me is the difference in how they refer to the grandchildren. Cindy A no doubt loved Caylee from the depths of her soul. It's very questionable how bonded Cindy W was to "those girls"

RSBM

This wasn’t the first “Cindy” who has attempted to protect her child in a similar way, and this isn’t the first family to behave like this.

 

[Seattle1]

Absolutely, the real victims are dead. I’m not sure NK lied about the dates. I think the discovery would have contained more evidence if there was any more contact between CW and NK. All I know from FB is if I go into someone’s page from Safari, and I’m not logged in, I don’t see much. I have to log in. Also, SW didn’t post much over the Summer, if NK went to her FB page, it may have looked to her like the marriage was over, and whatever SW posted was for appearances for her business, like many people here thought. It says in the Discovery that NK agreed to all LE searches and gave them everything they asked for. At least, from what I saw.

ETA: As for the deleted messages, don’t you think NK is smart enough to know that just because she deletes messages on her phone, it doesn’t mean LE can’t get them somewhere else? Can you see the possibility that she just wanted nothing more to do with him? She wanted to erase him from her life? Anything about him creeped her out at that point, not realizing how important those messages would be to the investigation
I’m not saying she’s a great person or a saint, and I do wonder if Rourke used less than flattering words about her because she went to the press before the sentencing hearing without clearing it with the District Attorney’s Office, first? I don’t know that for a fact, but it would surprise me if the DA was okay with her doing that.

My FB experience is not from Safari but you can view from other browsers without login. Also, maybe you didn't see NK's searches included in discovery. NK allegedly deleted her entire history with CW from her phone, and within hours started searching "can cops trace text messages," "how long do phone companies keep messages," and a dozen more similar searches regarding whether LE could recover her deleted information. It's one thing for her to delete her embarrassing photos but there's no excuse for the deletions of what could have been critical info necessary to prosecute CW. The DA made it clear that she was less than forthcoming, and I have no reason to doubt him. MOO

 

[Thepoet]

Trying to catch up, sorry to duplicate.

I would love some opinions on the Rzucek family Wrongful Death lawsuit that was just filed against CW.

Shanann Watts' family files wrongful death lawsuit against son-in-law Christopher Watts

 

[PommyMommy]

I couldn't resolve this in my read through.

It's clear the police began to look for her independently as her existence arose in the course of the investigation. A packet was put together for investigators - presumably containing available info on where she lived etc.

Who called who first doesn't appear to be confirmed in the file.

What I am wondering about is if she approached police through her lawyer in which case, it might explain why the interview didn't happen immediately

I don't think a lawyer was involved at that time. Her FBI interview was 8/15 and CBI interviewed her 8/16 at the Thornton Police Department where her father joined her. MOO

 

[kay74]

Does anyone know, are the Watt's originally from N.C.? The mother definitely contributed to what happened, putting Chris up against Shanann. She definitely has something wrong with her. Low self-esteem?

 

[Tortoise]

Has someone put together a list indicating the murders were premeditated? I think there are quite a number of explicit, specific things that CW did that show this

Interesting, though I still believe the family concocted that ridiculous letter. I think they added the part about possible self-harm because they have been busy painting a false picture of Shan'ann as the unstable and violent one; it's a misdirect to suggest it could have gone either way, and if he hadn't killed her (for killing the kids, in his fiction) she might have killed him. I think it was a desperate and fraudulent ploy by Mother & Sister Watts trying to save their cold-hearted boy, when they hoped he would go to trial and "fight, fight to the end" (with lies). IMO MOO.

Mmm, it's tempting to think they wrote it - I did before I saw the wording of it. Even the placement of himself in the line up "myself, my children or my wife" he's right there at the front of people he would never hurt. Narcissist couldn't help himself - this letter was about him. He would never hurt himself and if something happens to HIM what they should do.

I think it's clearly a plan that didn't come to fruition because it makes no sense at all in the context of him having confessed within 3 days to killing Shanann and then 3 months later to murdering them all. It couldn't even be used by his defense attorneys so if it was written by his family I don't see what it would achieve. Please investigate my murdered wife for nothing that happened to me. It holds no value, except in trying to work out what his plan was at the time it was written.