GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

[Bravo]

I believe Shanann was pinned down. CW was in good shape and worked out. She would be of no match. Exhausted, pregnant, emotionally drained. Arms pinned down and him straddling her, she isn't going to inflict anything on him. IMO

 

[LovesChocolate]

He described a scene where he was on top of her over the covers while she lay pinned under the covers in bed. I think that's how he strangled her. He described it as an attempt to console her or some nonsense.

CW?? Is this in the new documents?

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Gosh, I think your posts cannot get better or be more insightful and then you show me I am wrong by posting this! I love you. That’s all I gotta say....this case has made me so distraught and I am so tired of people defending NK. Every step she has made has been to cover herself. And people are apologizing for her!
By the way, I am super proud of your grandparents. So sorry they went through all that.

A small, small number of people are apologizing for her and most of those posts display the same deflection and manipulative behaviors that we see in her interviews. Just sayin.

We all have a right to our opinion, but at this point I think it's best to "scroll n' roll" or use the ignore button. No sense getting sucked into all that.

Moo moo moo

 

[gitana1]

Ok, let me start by saying this entire situation is awful. CW is unbelievable and selfish AF. I also think of NK as a home wrecker and she knew she was with a married man.
This is such a sad, sad situation.

I must preface this next remark by stating that while I have watched/listened to the videos, I have not yet read the discovery docs, because I cannot for the life of me find the freakin link, and I’m not a Websleuths n00b either. Maybe it’s because I’m using an iPad instead of a PC, I dunno. If anyone could point me to the links, I would be forever grateful. There are a lot of threads to go through and the night is only getting shorter!

With all of that said, while I’m reading through these comments about both “vocal fry” and NK seeming to be deceptive in her interviews.......I can’t help but speak from experience. Truly, not to defend her, just to be fair and give folks the benefit of the doubt. If this issue was in front of a jury, (clearly it wouldn’t be, just hear me out), this “testimony” could be considered reasonable doubt.

This vocal fry thing happens to me often. I have allergies and I am not being deceptive to anyone when it happens, my throat is simply dry and needs water. I noticed that she asked for water at one point in the interview and I understand the feeling 100%. Just saying it’s possible this happens to her. CO is really dry in the winter......

As for “knowing something” because she is openly talking to the detective about her life and comes off as self centered.......I feel like I would be exactly the same. I wouldn’t want my private business and texts to be scrutinized by the public (though I won’t lie, I am glad it was released!) and I’m not proud of it, but I have been the girl that dated a guy that was married and he swore up and down he was about to get divorced. Vulnerable women will believe some wild tales to keep the happy vision of life with their almost single guy that is crazy about her. I also deleted every trace of the guy when I realized he wasn’t going to get divorced. If he had suddenly ended up being the center of a murder investigation and I knew that my private texts were going to be read by everyone, I might have deleted those texts too. Especially if they were embarrassing. I do have a career to protect......

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying it could be possible she is completely innocent of any knowledge of the murders. As they say, a home wrecker does not automatically mean she is deceptive because she knows more about the murders than she is letting on. I found her to seem credible and forthcoming, albeit kind of defensive. Can’t say I wouldn’t be on the defensive a bit, too.

Unless there are other docs that prove otherwise, of course. If I could ever find the links, I would know! Lol

All imo, respectfully

Oh I don't think most of us believe she knew anything about the murders. But she did lie about what she knew about Shanann and CW, how long she dated him, how involved she was, etc. Stuff that went to motive and so was crucial to the investigation and ultimate justice.

She is 30. Not 20. By the way.

 

[Jennifer17]

My son HATES shots. Once when he was around 3, we had to take him to the ER for a really bad asthma attack/URI. They were going to give him two shots so they brought in two nurses to do them at the same time. With me holding him, his father holding his legs, he still managed to get an arm free and get ahold of one of the syringes. My point is, sometimes kids are surprisingly strong- especially when they are terrified.

Been there lots of times. It was worse when they were going to be sutured and they had gone through the trauma of the local anaesthetic and then someone comes at them again with something sharp and pointy.

 

[Delevanjo]

I believe Shanann was pinned down. CW was in good shape and worked out. She would be of no match. Exhausted, pregnant, emotionally drained. Arms pinned down and him straddling her, she isn't going to inflict anything on him. IMO

I agree that he is completely fit and strong enough to overpower a women; I guess I was just thinking there would be "something" ....some sort of scratch, bruise, or sign of struggle ...if we want to believe his version of the story, that is.

 

[book-thinker]

gitana 1,
Thank you for answering this question .
(Is the DA's office allowed to remove certain facts in the discovery documents
before being released to the public?)

During LE's interviewed with NK, she had worries being protrayed in a bad light.
All emails, phone conversations between herself and CW, googling wedding dress,
questions on sexual acts, marrying you mistress, to book deals.
I understood all information presented in this case, had to be included in the discovery documents.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Indeed. The fight to live/survive is innate. He is strong enough to overpower them, but my assumption is they had to be in a deep sleep.

This makes sense if we go with the timeline that assumes he did everything around 430 am when the security system detected movement.

It would give SW enough time to be in a deep sleep and with the girls being light sleepers with early bedtimes it wouldn't be surprising if Bella woke up at that time putting up more of a struggle.

Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

It's great advice.

My dad also told me, "If you do something wrong, don't get caught. Because if you do, I'll kill you." Lol.

Pretty harsh. But my parents have a lot of integrity. Super ethical. It can be a struggle but it's really important to me to try to do the right thing.

And I'm not screaming about affairs.
I've known very good people who had affairs. Sexual desire is super powerful. So is the desire for love and attention. Someone focusing on just you. I get it. I haven't done it but I can see how it can happen given the right circumstances. Or the wrong ones. I understand that people can do things like that which have the potential to hurt others, but still be at core, decent and kind and good. We are human. Right?

For me it's the accountability. Responsibility. Worrying about innocent victims or people at risk more than ourselves. Putting ourselves on the line for others.

Maybe it's my family history that gets me going about this stuff. My maternal grandparents risked their lives during the Nazi occupation of Holland, as Dutch underground members. They had two small kids at the time.

On my paternal side my great-grandfather was assasinated resisting the fascist Franco dictatorship and his son - my grandfather- was imprisoned for doing the same thing.

So I lose patience hearing whining about poor people whose emotions didn't let them step up.

I just feel sometimes there has to be a line. And while we shouldn't have to risk our lives necessarily, what about just worrying about innocent children a little more than being embarrassed? And not trying to hide potential evidence? Or act arrogantly or evasively?

This has been a brutal case and it has astounded me to see victims blamed and wrongdoers excused by any means necesssary.

I'm just craving a bit more of stepping up and doing the right thing I guess?

It is indeed discouraging and disheartening to see so much immorality in the world today. People are so self- consumed. There is alot of it in this case, that's for sure. Yet many people crave a "story" like this. But it can also make us appreciate what's good in our own lives and others. We just don't see too much of it here. Unfortunately goodness does not always prevail.

My family history sounds similar to yours! That's some story about your Great Grandfather. I'm fascinated in the time period when Franco was in power. There are a lot of interesting war stories on my dad's side too. My mom's side are from Italy, and it was her mom that gave her the advice my mom gave me. I was a little rebellious as a kid but as an adult developed strong morals. It stays with you for life if you are raised that way.

What happened with the Watts family? They are apparently religious. We have witnessed a lack of morals from each one of them. What could have happened in this family to lead to their son committing such a horrible act? I hope eventually someone digs deep into the family history and dynamics to help us better understand.

 

[kay74]

One of Chris's teacher said he was so quiet and never spoke and he wondered why. I'm thinking he was abused mentally by his mother. That would explain him being afraid to speak up or to talk. His mother planted in his mind that Shanann was shady, that set him up for being against her and had to have contributed something toward this killing. She sounds to me like she is a psychopath. Anyway nothing ever constitutes killing anyone let alone helpless children.

 

[CrimeAddict]

My theory is that they did have an emotional talk, everything came out, he got it all off his chest and she did freak out- she told him to leave in the morning and that she would be taking a ton of money from him for child support and alimony. She said go sleep in the basement and I want you out in the morning. She just didn’t lock her door.

 

[NeedAnswers]

Oh I don't think most of us believe she knew anything about the murders. But she did lie about what she knew about Shanann and CW, how long she dated him, how involved she was, etc. Stuff that went to motive and so was crucial to the investigation and ultimate justice.

She is 30. Not 20. By the way.

Very true! I totally had that thought too. Because I WAS in my 20s.....now I’m in my late 30s and thought processes do change considerably in that time frame.

I am a girl that likes facts. Where are the lies referenced? That’s part of my issue.....I can’t find the docs to read for myself!

 

[k-mac]

Yes. Being able to feel empathy and remorse is what makes us human and makes the world a better place.

You're pretty evolved.

she disgusts me
but at the end of the day I want her to see things from shananns eyes.
she owes her that much.
so we have to afford her a beautiful future to get there.

its hard to reconcile but she wont ever own her behaviour until she experience true love and a family herself.
its all been bad arse fun and games so far.
I had her pegged with the shock of the text to her friend about eating pussy and telling him to work on his marriage while sending him nude selfies.
shes just low gutter trash.

the opposite to shanann. classy, positive, pure, sunshine

moo

 

[Love Never Fails]

So

Ok, let me start by saying this entire situation is awful. CW is unbelievable and selfish AF. I also think of NK as a home wrecker and she knew she was with a married man.
This is such a sad, sad situation.

I must preface this next remark by stating that while I have watched/listened to the videos, I have not yet read the discovery docs, because I cannot for the life of me find the freakin link, and I’m not a Websleuths n00b either. Maybe it’s because I’m using an iPad instead of a PC, I dunno. If anyone could point me to the links, I would be forever grateful. There are a lot of threads to go through and the night is only getting shorter!

With all of that said, while I’m reading through these comments about both “vocal fry” and NK seeming to be deceptive in her interviews.......I can’t help but speak from experience. Truly, not to defend her, just to be fair and give folks the benefit of the doubt. If this issue was in front of a jury, (clearly it wouldn’t be, just hear me out), this “testimony” could be considered reasonable doubt.

This vocal fry thing happens to me often. I have allergies and I am not being deceptive to anyone when it happens, my throat is simply dry and needs water. I noticed that she asked for water at one point in the interview and I understand the feeling 100%. Just saying it’s possible this happens to her. CO is really dry in the winter......

As for “knowing something” because she is openly talking to the detective about her life and comes off as self centered.......I feel like I would be exactly the same. I wouldn’t want my private business and texts to be scrutinized by the public (though I won’t lie, I am glad it was released!) and I’m not proud of it, but I have been the girl that dated a guy that was married and he swore up and down he was about to get divorced. Vulnerable women will believe some wild tales to keep the happy vision of life with their almost single guy that is crazy about her. I also deleted every trace of the guy when I realized he wasn’t going to get divorced. If he had suddenly ended up being the center of a murder investigation and I knew that my private texts were going to be read by everyone, I might have deleted those texts too. Especially if they were embarrassing. I do have a career to protect......

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying it could be possible she is completely innocent of any knowledge of the murders. As they say, a home wrecker does not automatically mean she is deceptive because she knows more about the murders than she is letting on. I found her to seem credible and forthcoming, albeit kind of defensive. Can’t say I wouldn’t be on the defensive a bit, too.

Unless there are other docs that prove otherwise, of course. If I could ever find the links, I would know! Lol

All imo, respectfully

So, because you would be terribly embarrassed, you would delete your texts knowing a mother who is pregnant and her two small children are MISSING? But they don’t matter as long as you protect your career? Well okay then!!! NO WORDS!

 

[PommyMommy]

Audio, video recordings reveal first contact with Christopher Watts, investigative process
The most recent batch of evidence from the case file reveals in the sharpest detail to date the three, tense August days during which investigators worked every lead in the search for Shanann Watts, 34, Bella Watts, 4, and Celeste Watts, 3, and eventually zeroed in on — and arrested — Christopher Watts.

For two days, Watts maintained the façade of a grieving husband and father, looking, like everyone else, for his loving family. That façade cracked after he failed a lie detector test and confessed to his father in a police interrogation room that he had killed Shanann, a confession that was itself laced with a lie; he said he killed Shanann only after she killed their daughters.

Recordings at the bottom of the article - Body cam video of first responders on 8/13 and audio of CW's call to police from his work phone.

 

[jayjay54]

Telling someone to work on your marriage and then sending nude photos of your ugly self is definately just one proof of NKs lies ....so too knowing that SW “lives on her phone” yet never knowing anything that’s been plastered on social media about SW and her pregnancy ... I say no way !

A liar will lie so much they can’t remember the lies they tell.

In a court of law, If someone lies then eveything else that comes out of that persons mouth can be prseumed a lie.

How CWcould lower his standards to allow such filth into his life is incredulous. Not defending CW at all but he had never been in trouble with the law in 33 years until he met <modsnip - name calling> NK ...

Yes I completely agree with you. Her demeanour and responses are very unsettling at best. I had an open mind initially, and felt bad for her, but there is no excuse for the omission of facts, and downright falsehoods. ie IMPEDING THE INVESTIGATION. (Omission of facts being just as bad as lies IMO - this was a missing persons investigation which became a murder investigation!!) What the heck was she doing?!! IMO her ONLY motivation in coming forward was 1) damage control - for herself - no-one else & 2) the possibility of benefitting financially from this tragedy. MOO

 

[gitana1]

Gosh, I think your posts cannot get better or be more insightful and then you show me I am wrong by posting this! I love you. That’s all I gotta say....this case has made me so distraught and I am so tired of people defending NK. Every step she has made has been to cover herself. And people are apologizing for her!
By the way, I am super proud of your grandparents. So sorry they went through all that.

Wow. Thank you so much!! I guess that family history has had a big effect on me. I know I often think about what I would do in such a situation as they experienced. Would I be as courageous? Or as scared yet determined?

I really hope so.

It makes me happy to know they were not in the minority. For example, I think most people between the ages of 15-30 in Holland at that time were Dutch Underground members. A ton of them.

And in case any of you are like me and feel exhausted by the parade of degenerates we've seen in this case, and feel demoralized by humankind, just google some natural disaster videos and see how total strangers JUMP to risk their very lives to save others.

I do firmly believe most people are good and decent. Just like the Rzuceks.

Here is an example of TOTAL strangers coming instantly together to save one another. The video is mostly audio and was recorded by a young man and his friend who had to pull over and take shelter in a convenience store due to alerts from the news. They're talking to the store manager trying to figure out what to do. And then the tornado hits.

Makes me cry every time. (The store was decimated Btw).

And in every earthquake or tornado video you see people emerge from the wreckage to IMMEDIATELY and automatically go to their neighbor's and start digging.

People are good. I have to remind myself of that with something like this video, now and then, to shake of the grossness of cases like these.

 

[molly1255]

She kept saying it was not fair to her, then she added Shanann and the girls. Of everyone she put on the list of being treated “not fair” by CW, she was the one that had the knowledge and opportunity to do something about it. She was not helpless or an unwilling participant. Shan’ann was still searching for the truth. I don’t think NK cared about fairness while carrying on with CW.

I could not agree more!

 

[CrimeAddict]

I am almost done listening to the LE & CW interrogation. He is pretty scared and made up the SW killing the girls story so quick didn’t he! The crying was for himself, IMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

Agreed. But I think she urged him to work on his marriage in a petulantly jealous manner. After seeing his beautiful home and family- "You should work on your marriage."

She just wanted him to say,

"No. It's over. I can never go back. I just want you!"

I think she said that while narcissistically craving reassurance. Which she received.

That's exactly what I first thought but I think Chris was too dumb to realize it. Too bad, he wasted all that effort in lying and telling her Shanann didn't want to work it out. All he needed to do was insist that he loved NK more than he has ever loved anyone, and he is getting divorced no matter what Shanann thinks. Would have saved him a lot of effort.