GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Long ago in another life, my ex husband strangled me briefly. I was pregnant as well, with small kids in the house. As I tried to fight him off, all I managed was a tiny scratch on his neck and ripped his shirt collar. I don't wallow in this, no need for sympathy. I'm all good now. Shortly after, he violated a restraining order, but I bested him with a bit of pepper spray, and I've been rid of him for a loooonnnng time now. In my incident, I had some red marks on my neck but nothing else. I only bring up my past for two reasons....
1) To relate a personal strangling incident in which "marks" were minimal.
2) To mention that the cops and victims advocate instructed me not to say "choke" instead of "strangle" because it minimizes the severity of the act. Language has power. You choke when something is IN your throat. Strangling is a violent act from without. Up thread someone mentioned that RW said "choked" while talking with CW in the interrogation room. Interesting if so.

Great point about choke vs strangling

Glad you were able to move on to a happy life.

 

[x_files]

I always considered NK a smart woman. Suddenly I saw it all in a different light.

She is a person who probably has an alibi, but did everything to destroy it.

I don't think Jim's, the "couch surfer's" name has been released publicly. There are ways to find out, of course, but it is unimportant, in my view. He has a key to her house - meaning that there is some activity going there that she wants to keep secret. I don't care what it is.

But - at this point in time Jim has not been interrogated and has not confirmed her alibi.

NK asked not to drag him into it. The police during the second interview said they had other ways to confirm her whereabouts on that fateful night/AM of August 13th.

How? I don't know. What ways can be used to verify someone's whereabouts?

So, to me, her whereabouts on August 13th have not been verified.

As of today, I think she did a monumentously stupid thing by erasing the texts. Because she, herself, can not restore them. She can not show them to anyone as a proof that they had never discussed CW's plans.

NK undermined her own alibi. I think this is not what she was thinking about, but this is what has happened.

NK has not taken a polygraph, she erased her texts, she provided no witness to verify where she was on August 13th, she was the love interest of CW, and she was interested in getting married and having her own kids.

This is where her vulnerability lies.

My feeling it - people have long memory. And when things look bad, they look bad.

This is what bugs me.
I've watched/listened to all the tapes. CW's is a murderer I get that. I just hope he did not have help before or after the fact and they won't be held accountable.
Since when can you tell the cops NOT to contact your alibi?!

 

[Trudie]

I don’t mind, I’m in a different country. I may just do it one day.

I agree and I think it depends on the people he’s locked up with. If he’s locked up amongst fellow aniahlators and kiddy killers then he will be quite safe but once he’s moved to a more open environment, living amongst the likes of petty criminals, he’s a gonner. It really boils down to opportunity and a careless guard or two IMO.

Yes, we might see your letters. Lol!

It will be a very long time before CW is with GP, don’t ya think? If ever? I believe it was stated the reason he didn’t go to CO Superman is bc the staff are from CO. Meaning the DOC doesn’t trust them to keep him safe. Remember the incident with James Holmes? The guard “accidentally” left a door ajar and another inmate rushed through, attacking JH.
If I’m not mistaken, CW can requestvRHU or ad seg, if he feels he needs the extra protection.
I think When JD was killed he had requested to move to GP. If they are not in ad seg for disciplinary reasons, the system must move them, if requested. Staff can try to persuade them to stay in isolation but ultimately the decision is up to the inmate.
Per Scott P., death row is the most requested unit to work on in San Quentin. SQ claims there’s rarely any disturbance there. The men are respectful, quiet, rule abiding inmates. They claim this is because they are on DR and are working on appeals, savoring what may be their last days, etc.
A tape was released recently with SP smiling and joking with his unit mates. He looks like he has not aged much, considering.....
The tape is on Radar, I think.

 

[Layla123]

I think he had an “oh crap” moment after killing S. He knew he was not going to get away with her murder. Sure, he had fleeting, adrenaline filled thoughts of a life w/o a wife, but he also had to have other thoughts. So, IMO, he killed the kids AFTER in order to create an alibi or because he knew he was going down (& as we’ve seen in other cases) killed them so they were not orphaned.
After killing S he could not leave the girls home alone, he had no sitter lined up, he had to get S body out of the house, go to work, portray himself as normal.

I agree with you. His explanation to his father was he was so scared he didn’t know what to do. I think that was true. IMMO, the moment CW realized Shanann was dead, he went into self-preservation, damage control mode. He was as scared as a human being can be. The girls would have to be killed next in order for him to survive. He blocked all thoughts of fatherly love and protection for his daughters out of his mind because they stood in the way of his freedom, and that’s all he cared about. He was desperate to get away with murder. He didn’t want to go to jail, and he didn’t want anyone to think he was a bad guy.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Not love. Addiction. Obsession. Filling his void.

Just like he did with Shanann

 

[x_files]

I am not sure that they got them all. Some I saw were one sided without a corresponding text.

Wouldn't her phone service have records of all of them?

 

[scdiv]

But it really doesn't show anything except him backing the truck up. The only thing I see him putting in it is the gas can. It seems odd that he would be doing all that but it shouldn't make him more nervous than LE and SW's friend walking all around the house. He acts soooo strange when they find the phone. Not startled, not so worried that he 'thinks' something has happened to her, just casually scrolling thru her phone. How odd.

He seemed just as nervous when it dawned on him that the camera would show SW never left the house and no car came to break in or pick her up. And idiot forgot that he was supposed to be looking at the screen for those things. Not just hung up on his explanation for what he was doing. The neighbor in the extended version of the Radar video picked up on that right away.

CW should have taken notice of NUA's demeanor, pacing around, genuinely distressed, calling people, desperately looking for ways to help, fighting back tears...and at least try to imitate what humans do when they are truly concerned. He didn't. He just stood there playing with his phone.

Then he went inside the master bedroom, came out with Shanann's ring, with a look of sad little boy - Look, she left me, I'm abandoned. NUA gave him a much deserved disgusted, dirty look. She already knew what happened to her dear friend and girls at that moment.

And it was SO obvious he had the ring in his pocket and went to plant it on the nightstand in order to "find it." There was no other reason for him to go in that room. He was touching his pocket then starts to leave to go toward the bedroom. The policeman started to talk to him about something and it looks like he touched his pocket again. Then as soon as he answered the policeman, he hurried back toward the bedroom again and just happened to come out with the ring. Suuuuure.

 

[Seattle1]

If he flew into Madison, he must be at Waupun!
Waupun State Pen!

Ever wonder what a maximum-security prison is like? Read on
Possibly Green Bay from the news here.

 

[x_files]

New here, hello everyone.

James Holmes was also transferred, his location tightly guarded more than a year. His transfer was a result of a scuffle initiated by another inmate, after a guard left a door ajar. Really coincidental, huh?

In my state, an inmate being transferred does not know until staff wakes him, telling him to dress, bag his property, etc.

IMO, CW traveled on a fed aircraft, we know the feds traveled with him. The BOP does not have him listed as an inmate, at this time. If flying commercial, his entourage boards first, deplaned last, normally.

CW can of course send mail, use the phone & create a list of persons he would accept visits from. He has to serve his time but he’s still entitled to the basic rights as other inmates. The prison can not administer excessive punishment w/o reason. The job of the prison is to “house” him for life. And, despite murders on the inside, the prison is supposed to provide an inmate a safe environment in which to serve his time.

Because inmates are watching TV, one might be inclined to think the receiving institution prefers to intake CW without the entire population going ballistic, plotting & planning how to get to CW. Personally, I doubt anyone cares what CW’s outcome will ultimately be. They do care about prison staff being injured or worse.

Back to James for a sec, a google search reveals he has an entire pod to himself. So, there’s no reason for him to come out of his pod, he can shower & exercise w/o needing to be moved, eliminating any chance of him being in contact with another inmate.

CW could be in a county jail tonight awaiting transfer to the next prison. If he’s not going to a fed institution he will need to go thru orientation again.

Iirc, the DA mentioned in his after sentencing presser, the possibility of CW serving his time elsewhere.

He won't be eligible for parole will he, ever? Please, God, say NO!

 

[Mellowmelly]

Yes, we might see your letters. Lol!

It will be a very long time before CW is with GP, don’t ya think? If ever? I believe it was stated the reason he didn’t go to CO Superman is bc the staff are from CO. Meaning the DOC doesn’t trust them to keep him safe. Remember the incident with James Holmes? The guard “accidentally” left a door ajar and another inmate rushed through, attacking JH.
If I’m not mistaken, CW can requestvRHU or ad seg, if he feels he needs the extra protection.
I think When JD was killed he had requested to move to GP. If they are not in ad seg for disciplinary reasons, the system must move them, if requested. Staff can try to persuade them to stay in isolation but ultimately the decision is up to the inmate.
Per Scott P., death row is the most requested unit to work on in San Quentin. SQ claims there’s rarely any disturbance there. The men are respectful, quiet, rule abiding inmates. They claim this is because they are on DR and are working on appeals, savoring what may be their last days, etc.
A tape was released recently with SP smiling and joking with his unit mates. He looks like he has not aged much, considering.....
The tape is on Radar, I think.

You may just lol.
I agree it will be a very long time, if ever he’s placed into the GP. I didn’t realise they can request to be isolated either. You’re very knowledgeable about prison life !

 

[wilsodh]

But even if he reacted to a "sore spot" she hit, which I do not believe happened, and at 2am in the morning, there would still be no need to smother his beloved baby girls. I don't see how a person goes from a heated passionate rage and then calms down to continue cold, cruel methodical acts of killing your two little girls. Each death would have taken several long minutes. A heat of the moment rage rampage doesn't last that long. And no, I don't believe he snapped and killed her, then decides he would say she "left" so he comes to the conclusion that he will kill his two innocent daughters too. But not in passion, in slow, thought out deliberate action.

Agree. I initially was of the 'second-degree-SW-murder-followed-by-the-daughters' camp, but have come to think that Chris would have wanted complete control of the situation, from start to awful finish. He fits the 'annihilator/sociopath' profile, and I think he proceeded with the task of silent murders with deliberate, controlling action that would keep the neighbors from hearing anything at all. IMO, he likely killed the girls second, just in case SW went in to check on them (thus preserving normalcy). With the same monstrous coldness his would exhibit with his girls, he could have killed SW with a surprise attack from behind to quickly render her unconscious, perhaps while she was sleeping (like the girls). He could have killed his entire family while they slept, as they would have been most vulnerable and unable to scream or defend themselves.

Such machine-like coldness makes one shudder. But listening to his polygraph interview and all the body-cam footage, I get shivers from his coldness. My sense is that this is a man who could do this. A man who could 'put on his machine' and execute an unthinkable plan to serve his selfish, narcissistic interests.

Yikes.

Dave

 

[x_files]

Yes!! He was so good! At one point, CW is yammering about recent thefts and the neighbor cuts him right off and says, "But if any action were to happen, and any cars or anything left your house, I would have gotten it."

And CW points to the screen and stammers, "Yeah, it would have been like right in that area, it should have picked, I mean" implying that the camera didn't pick up something.

And the neighbor cuts him right off again and points to the screen saying, "Oh it will pick up anything coming down the street, this way, down this way!"

It's hard to hear, but CW seems to ask something about even around this turn?

And the neighbor shuts that right down and is all, "Oh yeah! Watch, I'll show ya!!!"

And CW can't even deal, it's fantastic. I would love to buy that neighbor a beer.

He's a stand-up dude, doesn't buy into his bs. He's another hero in this case. He's a great neighbor.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Not love. Addiction. Obsession. Filling his void.

How apt. Filling his void.

 

[PommyMommy]

Ever wonder what a maximum-security prison is like? Read on
Possibly Green Bay from the news here.

I hope it's Waupun, built in the 1850's.

MOO

 

[?mysterian?]

Ever wonder what a maximum-security prison is like? Read on
Possibly Green Bay from the news here.

Thanks for the link. There are also some very good videos about maximum-security U.S. prisons on YouTube.

 

[Thepoet]

CW's days are becoming darker and darker. Short of perpetual isolation,, they can't protect him. Even with perpetual isolation, if a guard doesn't pay attention for a few minutes, in a hallway, a shower, etc.; it's over! MacDonald was attacked, Dahner was beaten to death, Jared Fogel (Subway spokesman/pedophile) was beaten, and Manson was set on fire. There are no friends in prison! CW is a target because of his "celebrity" and the heinous crimes he's committed. Lots of prisoners would like to famous for killing a celebrity FA, lots of prisoners, and guards, are fathers, and lots are just crazy! The belly of the beast, and CW is at home there now! I believe he's terrified (he's a coward) and confused about what to do (no Mommy or Daddy, no SW, no NK!) Guards, thugs, wackos, and predators are now his support group! Sleep well CW.

 

[x_files]

NK isn't a victim and she would be the last to want to know imo. Unless they want to set her up to see if she immediately starts a correspondence with him. Jmo

My gut feeling is that if NK blows off CW's and refuses to call, write or visit he'll start blabbing.
Either lie straight out or divulge something. Just a weird feeling.

 

[molly1255]

I doubt he has real regrets.

I think his family is probably supporting the postion that SW was evil and was destroying his life

I think he regrets getting caught. And that’s about it

He probably also spends time thinking about his hatred for NUA who he’ll likely blame for exposing him

He probably does blame NUA, and ultimately, he probably still blames Shanann, too. If he thinks this way, he'd be smart to keep that to himself in prison.

If his Mom and Dad still have stinkin' thinkin' about Shanann murdering the babies, and if CW wants to talk to them by phone or have them visit, they'd be smart to keep their thoughts to themselves and not state this to him. If Ma and Pa prove to be a problem, the prison can kick them off the visitor's list and not allow phone calls for a very long time.

 

[Trudie]

I agree with you. His explanation to his father was he was so scared he didn’t know what to do. I think that was true. IMMO, the moment CW realized Shanann was dead, he went into self-preservation, damage control mode. He was as scared as a human being can be. The girls would have to be killed next in order for him to survive. He blocked all thoughts of fatherly love and protection for his daughters out of his mind because they stood in the way of his freedom, and that’s all he cared about. He was desperate to get away with murder. He didn’t want to go to jail, and he didn’t want anyone to think he was a bad guy.

And, we all know, it’s normal for the perp to lie and deny. Heck, very few ‘fess up. They must be thinking they have a half assed chance of getting away with their crime. CW had a big prob with the doors locked from the inside. That was a revelation. Oops!!!
NA was on Inside Edition this evening.

 

[Mellowmelly]

He's a stand-up dude, doesn't buy into his bs. He's another hero in this case. He's a great neighbor.

The way he was looking at CW , it looked like he wanted to punch him in the face.