GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[dgfred]

Not true. If they believed there was a life at risk they would have been justified.

That is not what was happening at THAT time. They were 'missing' and could have gone for a walk, left in general, etc
Who's life was at risk?

 

[Gardener1850]

For instance going on and on about how she and her sister dealt with their parents' divorce, how they absolutely loved having bunk beds, and how she thought the Watts girls would have loved that.
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I couldn't believe it -- they are DEAD, MURDERED by her illicit boyfriend. And more power to the cop/agent, he kept bringing her back to his questions.

And, no, of course she had never contemplated marriage with CW......she barely knew him.

Yeah, I believe her that she talked to CW about her parents divorce but I think she only put a positive spin on it for investigators and by contrast probably made it sound like she had the worst childhood when describing it to CW. She is just like CW in many ways-- trying to make herself look good above all else. When talking about her childhood to her married boyfriend who says he is divorcing his wife NK would have wanted his sympathy over anything else. She may not have been thinking about how he would apply her words to his own situation. When talking to investigators about it after the murders she doesn't want them to think she said anything at all that would have given CW the idea to get rid of the girls. But her lack of self-reflection is almost pathological. She can't admit she said or did anything wrong. JMO.

The investigators impressed me so much with how patient they were.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

THIS! And if she did let him go, she would make his life a living hell, esp if she learned of a mistress or mistresses.

I don’t think she would make his life a living hell and I also think she would have accepted a divorce. Her texts to him asking what was wrong were not threatening even though she suspected he was cheating. She pleaded for him to tell her if he wanted out or was just staying for the kids but she never gave ultimatums or made “there is going to be hell to pay” statements. She was much kinder then I would have been if I thought my husband was cheating. I would expect some anger as they work through the process, she did not come across to me as a vindictive scorned wife. She has received such a bad rap as controlling but look at Chris, you know whoever he was with would have to step up and make the decisions. She took charge not through beating him down but out of necessity.

 

[human]

EXACTLY!
I cannot believe a grown man googled that, a pre-teen maybe but not a grown man! A toddler in a grown man's body indeed.

Taken as everything we know about him , it fits in with no clue on how to be a person.

By itself, I do not find it telling. If I wanted a great relationship, I might look up the pluses and minuses of saying that too soon. That would be for people who want something out of a relationship other than love. Stability, what money can buy , for instance ( like old men who have a trophy wife and the trophy wife as well). Maybe they are sociopaths as well.

 

[book-thinker]

I’m wondering if there is a connection between any of these behaviors;

1. Trying to get Shanann to instigate the divorce that he wanted by telling her he didn’t love her anymore.

2. Planning the murders to be a disappearance, rather than murder - staging an intruder sex attack and murder of the children as witnesses which would be easier to stage if he just left the back sliding door open. This way he has no problem with cameras not picking up her exit out front, the car being in the garage, possessions in the house etc.

3. Murdering them all (most likely) in their sleep so they don’t see him as the attacker.

4. Hiding their bodies. Rather than leaving them somewhere to be discovered, like gassed in the car. This way (assuming they’re not found) he gets to not have to deal with them again, no funerals.

I think it all looks like hiding and diversion. Is it passive-aggressiveness? He described himself to the FBI agent as being non-confrontational and I think that was the general consensus of everyone who knew him too. The shouting his neighbor talked about could have been him starting to leak aggression, producing an internal crisis and destructive or rebellious behaviour such as starting an affair, because the alternative might mean facing the death of easy-going Chris. Forbidden feelings surfacing from childhood maybe, so blame it on current circumstances, wife, marriage and kids, all lumped in together as one - his current life. The threat of facing the repressed rage he felt at his mother was maybe surfacing and he re-packaged it.

Tortoise, you did a good job of connecting the dots between the different behaviors.

Inmate watts, passive-aggressiveness behavior started in childhood, a controlling mom dictating his life, seldom thinking for himself. Resentment growing up towards his mom, unable to express his dislike for her, keeping everything inside,
the rage bottled up over years, boiling over, pouring that rage onto his family.

I believe his mom has passive aggressive tendencies on a larger scale.

Hiding the aggressiveness for years. . Inmate watts's delusional fantasy world, NK would fixed all his problems and start a new life with her. In his mind, his family was excess baggage. Planning the disappearance of his family and the narcissist person that he is believing, LE wouldn't catch him for the murdering his family.

 

[dgfred]

Says a lot that he flexes and pulls his stomach in when posing for a LE pic... to check his body for marks in murdering his family.

 

[dgfred]

You would think he would be scared, worried, panicked, etc but instead he is thinking about his picture 'body'.
Unreal.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Ugh. Really don't see the point of this. I am no fan of NK, but really, really don't see her as the mastermind behind this hienous mass murder, and suspect that LE has reliable knowledge that she wasn't involved. I suppose it's psychologically interesting that some want to blame her further, but to me it feels vengeful rather than an exercise in pursuing justice,

I agree, I don’t like her character for having an affair with a married man, I think the affair probably started much earlier and that she put pressure on CW to leave SW. I believe she hasn’t been entirely truthful to LE about hers and CW relationship but the only person responsible for this horrible crime is CW, he’s ruined so many lives, including his lovers.

 

[Trudie]

Ugh. Really don't see the point of this. I am no fan of NK, but really, really don't see her as the mastermind behind this hienous mass murder, and suspect that LE has reliable knowledge that she wasn't involved. I suppose it's psychologically interesting that some want to blame her further, but to me it feels vengeful rather than an exercise in pursuing justice,

I don’t see this going anywhere. Nor do I consider her a mastermind to CWs evil plot. However, I think had he not been involved with her S, B & C would be alive. The stress of living a double life catches up with anyone living dubs.
Add to the mix a gf that wants to be with you 24/7. Something’s going to happen.

 

[Steelhead]

Not true. There are exigency circumstances that would allow for its use.

I would argue that if they were in the house, NUA and everyone else would have known it. Even if SW was incapacitated, one or both of the girls would have made themselves known. So I think deep down they knew no one was in the house. So no reason/evidence at that time to warrant a bust in.

 

[x_files]

Excellent

this is what I’ve tried to convey regarding his urgency to begin his murderous spree upon S returning home. I’ll always believe NK was starting to not believe his fake divorce & was urging him to get out on his own. We know she googled S in ‘17 so how long had she waited, really? Was he afraid S would find something to lead her to believe a woman had been in her home?

CW probably felt he’d never be rid of S w/o being “rid” of her. I agree, his life would have been a living hell, just as it is now, had he started a divorce. I’m not even certain one can divorce a pregnant spouse in CO. In my state one cannot.

I often wonder if some of these guys are so exasperated with their situation they don’t care if they end up in prison. Like Scott P., Maybe afraid to grow up & really be an adult, finding the thought of being responsible for another frightening.

We will never know. There’s so many mental illnesses.

I tried unsuccessfully to find a commissary list for Dodge. Evidently someone deposited funds if Radar found it.

You think just packing and moving in with his gf would be much easier than murdering his entire family. He wanted freedom now he has no freedom. He will die in prison.

 

[Herat]

She should be embarrassed and ashamed. For her behavior before and after the murders.

Of course she doesn't want any association with CW, now. It's of no value to her.

I doubt she cares that much about her friends. It seems to be all about her.

I wish her no ill will and I DO hope she can rebuild her life. I also hope she has learned from this experience, which cost four precious human beings their lives.

Well, considering she googled about how much Amber Frey made from her book, I think the CW case IS of value to her

 

[Nikynoo]

I agree with you. His explanation to his father was he was so scared he didn’t know what to do. I think that was true. IMMO, the moment CW realized Shanann was dead, he went into self-preservation, damage control mode. He was as scared as a human being can be. The girls would have to be killed next in order for him to survive. He blocked all thoughts of fatherly love and protection for his daughters out of his mind because they stood in the way of his freedom, and that’s all he cared about. He was desperate to get away with murder. He didn’t want to go to jail, and he didn’t want anyone to think he was a bad guy.

I agree!

 

[Gardener1850]

I don't understand why he wasn't allowed to just bust in the house? Some time had already went by before he got there, every second would matter if a pregnant lady was in the house somewhere passed out. That was very nerve racking to me even though I knew she wasn't in there. And whether the husband gave them permission or not. If it were me or a family member or friend in that position I would want the police or whoever came first to bust into the house and help the lady. That was a lot of time wasted.

Privacy laws are strong in the US. They need probable cause to enter and it has to be more than someone saying their friend with a medical condition was not answering the door. There had to be some evidence she was in the house and not conscious-- like the kids running around and saying Mommy would not wake up. Otherwise, any person could get access to any other person's house simply by making up a story to LE and getting the police to break in. The LEO was looking very hard for some probable cause to enter. They needed either that or permission from Chris to break down the door. If there had been so much as a knocked over lamp visible in the living room- THAT might have served as a sign a struggle had taken place. I think the officer would have broken in if he saw anything suspicious. But there was nothing to indicate SW was unconscious in the house. And as it turned out she was not. CW also showed his true colors when he delayed coming home and did not give them permission to break in to check on SW. A concerned husband would have been calling the police himself and telling them to break in to check on her if they had to. JMO.

 

[Mellowmelly]

You think just packing and moving in with his gf would be much easier than murdering his entire family. He wanted freedom now he has no freedom. He will die in prison.

The irony of it all !

 

[ZsaZsa]

That is not what was happening at THAT time. They were 'missing' and could have gone for a walk, left in general, etc
Who's life was at risk?

The person who made the call for the welfare check stressed that SW was pregnant, unwell, distressed, not answering multiple calls.Leaving the house with her children without telling her closest friend, not showing up to an important Dr appt, would be unthinkable. Any reasonable person would think it prudent to gain access to the house by the least destructive means, and worry about complaints afterwards. IMO. The husband had already been asked to come home a couple of times by NUA, and didn't . Time was moving on..

 

[Trudie]

The one common factor with a lot of similar cases-the in laws were quite fond of their son in law. They’re more than capable of fooling anyone around them.

Didn’t CW ask LE to not bring co workers to the burial site? Because “they all think I’m a good guy”. Just sick.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Lindstrom was his friend. He had a couple of other friends.

I have friends from elementary, junior and senior high, college, and work.

People move away.

He had a “special” friend at work.

I would call them more acquaintances than friends and I think had it not been for Shannan he wouldn’t have known most of them. The friends he had from childhood weren’t that close to him. The “special” friend seems to me to be the only one he made independently and that was beyond friendship.

 

[dgfred]

The person who made the call for the welfare check stressed that SW was pregnant, unwell, distressed, not answering multiple calls.Leaving the house with her children without telling her closest friend, not showing up to an important Dr appt, would be unthinkable. Any reasonable person would think it prudent to gain access to the house by the least destructive means, and worry about complaints afterwards. IMO. The husband had already been asked to come home a couple of times by NUA, and didn't . Time was moving on..

See Gardner's post above for clarity.

 

[Nikynoo]

Yet according to the Watts SW was controlling. Father Watts' only understandable words ar the very start of his interview.
About Shannan.
" She was a very controlling woman".
It just makes me sick.

by her own admission, SW had control issues ( see discovery document pg 2114).