GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[book-thinker]

Why would you think CW has OCD? Where is it written in the discovery documents? So Shanann kept the home clean for him? So was it CW's habit to clean into the wee hours of the night BEFORE he murdered his family?

CW doesn't display OCD tendencies.
Shannon enjoyed a clean home that's it! Whether she had OCD or not doesn't matter.
OCD had nothing to do with this case. People with OCD have a need to repeat over and over certain actions,
rechecking locked doors, making sure the stove is turns off, worrying they offended someone, uncontrollable
need to clean. JMO

 

[Layla123]

I don't think so. Her son was with her. Her husband had to know she was going over there. What could he possibly say about THAT?!

He could have buried them right next to Shanann. At that point he thought he was the invincible, Super Murderer! He thought he could kill whoever he wanted, tell lie after lie, and get back to what really mattered, Fantasy Football, within a matter of days.

 

[Jupiter05]

I have seen snippets of the upcoming interview on 2020 with Shananns parents. With everything they have and are going through, the grace and love they express is amazing. The diffference between the two sets of parents and siblings tells us most of what we need to know.

I would also like to give a shout out to NUA's son Nick. He was also a hero in this story.

 

[NanZDrew]

He could have buried them right next to Shanann. At that point he thought he was the invincible, Super Murderer! He thought he could kill whoever he wanted, tell lie after lie, and get back to what really mattered, Fantasy Football, within a matter of days.

I don't think so. He was outnumbered. I believe at this point, he was not feelinglike an invincible Super Murderer. I think he was feeling like a cornered rat wondering how he was going to escape from this disaster he had created.

 

[BingoBongo]

Just found this (* mine):

"There are several clear exemptions in the Colorado Public (Open) Records Act. The first statute exempts correspondence that is work product and *all correspondence with constituents that clearly implies by its nature or content that the constituent expects that it is confidential."*

and this:

"Exempt: *At discretion of custodian: Records of investigations*; test questions; details of research projects being conducted by the state; real estate appraisals; and motor vehicle license photographs. Custodian must Exempt: Medical data; personnel files; letters of reference; trade secrets; library records; addresses of public school children; and sexual harassment complaints under investigation."

Interesting. Not sure how of if the parts I maked with * are applicable. Maybe someone with LE or a law degree might know?

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Without SW realizing it, CW handed over any control/power that SW previously had and he gave it to NK. He took the ultimate control himself, however. He is the one who decided to commit mass murder and hide the bodies. If that isn't the ultimate control, I don't know what is.

He killed Bella,CeCe,and Niko too. So this being about her 'controlling' is just inexcusable.
this

Babies were not controlling. He snuffed their lives out.
The victim bashing is unreal.

 

[Layla123]

I don't think so. He was outnumbered. I believe at this point, he was not feelinglike an invincible Super Murderer. I think he was feeling like a cornered rat wondering how he was going to escape from this disaster he had created.

I hope so.

 

[Gardener1850]

CW doesn't display OCD tendencies.
Shannon enjoyed a clean home that's it! Whether she had OCD or not doesn't matter.
OCD had nothing to do with this case. People with OCD have a need to repeat over and over certain actions,
rechecking locked doors, making sure the stove is turns off, worrying they offended someone, uncontrollable
need to clean. JMO

Exactly. Thank you for saying that. Also with true OCD the behaviors prevent someone from taking part in a normal life-- not being able to leave or go to sleep without checking the locks repeatedly. Cleaning obsessively when there is no dirt and to the point where you miss appointments. Shanann had no signs of that. She was dependable and showed up for her appointments (until the day she was murdered). When her friends said she was a little OCD they only meant she likes a clean and organized life. They didn't mean that she was clinically diagnosed with OCD-- there is a huge difference. JMO.

 

[human]

But in this case the killer was not physically or severely abused over a long period of time. It can't really be compared to a self defense type situation. Imo

I am not talking about SW only. I am saying that I can understand how someone could kill a spouse. I will never come to any understanding of how someone can kill a child.

When people are in marriages, there is a lot that goes on. Hurts, misunderstandings, what else? A spouse affects your deepest self.

I can intellectually understand the idea that children are objects. But process that? Not yet.

 

[NanZDrew]

Not wanting to turn this into a back and forth, but I, as a private citizen, am very concerned about what has been released in this case. I understand that CO is just obeying the law of that State. Maybe the law should be changed?

My concern isn't necessarily for NK, many of my other posts will show that she is not someone I admire. My concern is for all the other cases that incl. "data dumps" and the many witnesses who have been, or will be, shocked at the fact that they have become notorious, at least to some.

Again - I fear this law will end up causing reluctance by many who will think twice before coming forward with valuable informantion. PARTICULARLY when we see/hear, in one of NK's LE interview video's she is being assured by LE that they are not interested in her sexy texts and photos. And yet all that showed up on line.

One other thing, I am not completely clear on the FoI laws...but it would seem to me the freedom to OBTAIN that info. isn't destroyed if the ability to BROADCAST that info. is reducted. IE, media, etc. can ASK and OBTAIN freely...but data dumps don't need to happen.

I tend to agree with you, although this has been most interesting. I think the issue is not releasing FOIA, but making it accessible over the internet with no credentials required. For example, on a case I am following in Tyler, TX where an uncle sexually molested his niece and dumped her into a well, their are document links there, but if I click on them, it says something to the effect that I do not have the credentials to access that information. This is ongoing, but even after the case is closed, those documents remain closed unless you either have signed up for an account or have a subscription. You can go to the courthouse, and see files, but you have to fill out paperwork that identifies you.

 

[Trudie]

Indeed. His parents say Shannan was very Controlling. What fun he's going to have with all the prison personnel controlling his every,waking,sleeping moment.

Until he gets a new girlfriend he sure won’t be excited about visitation days. It’s appx the same distance as CO, from Momma Watts, maybe a tad closer. Long, long drive. Especially considering winter is upon us & that means rude lake effect snow in WI.
If he ever gets to his permanent new crib, he can purchase his mini screen TV & headphones. Providing he has money on his books.
WI prisons begin serving dinner at 3pm, lol. So he’ll enjoy nice, long evenings, maybe even a walk. All in the privacy of his cell.
Rise & shine head count 6a.m. sharp!
Barring any inmate attack, I think he’ll adapt and be just fine, a model prisoner.

 

[riolove77]

He could have buried them right next to Shanann. At that point he thought he was the invincible, Super Murderer! He thought he could kill whoever he wanted, tell lie after lie, and get back to what really mattered, Fantasy Football, within a matter of days.

They would have found them all. How would he explain driving all the way home and then back to CERVI 319, where he apparently rarely went? They would have checked it just for it being the first stop that morning, but most definitely if he had gone more than once...

 

[BingoBongo]

I tend to agree with you, although this has been most interesting. I think the issue is not releasing FOIA, but making it accessible over the internet with no credentials required. For example, on a case I am following in Tyler, TX where an uncle sexually molested his niece and dumped her into a well, their are document links there, but if I click on them, it says something to the effect that I do not have the credentials to access that information. This is ongoing, but even after the case is closed, those documents remain closed unless you either have signed up for an account or have a subscription. You can go to the courthouse, and see files, but you have to fill out paperwork that identifies you.

Exactly! Make the records available, but not necessarily on-line to the general public.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Colorado has strong open records laws. The DA was obligated to release this material.

The FOIA holds LE and all parties accountable. At times I feel it violates victims and witnesses privacy, but at the same time it's needed.
jmo

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I don't think so. He was outnumbered. I believe at this point, he was not feelinglike an invincible Super Murderer. I think he was feeling like a cornered rat wondering how he was going to escape from this disaster he had created.[/
How about getting a divorce??
They were obstacles in his way, if this was about the dynamics in the marriage, they would still be alive and they would be getting a divorce like normal people do.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Not wanting to turn this into a back and forth, but I, as a private citizen, am very concerned about what has been released in this case. I understand that CO is just obeying the law of that State. Maybe the law should be changed?

My concern isn't necessarily for NK, many of my other posts will show that she is not someone I admire. My concern is for all the other cases that incl. "data dumps" and the many witnesses who have been, or will be, shocked at the fact that they have become notorious, at least to some.

Again - I fear this law will end up causing reluctance by many who will think twice before coming forward with valuable informantion. PARTICULARLY when we see/hear, in one of NK's LE interview video's she is being assured by LE that they are not interested in her sexy texts and photos. And yet all that showed up on line.

One other thing, I am not completely clear on the FoI laws...but it would seem to me the freedom to OBTAIN that info. isn't destroyed if the ability to BROADCAST that info. is reducted. IE, media, etc. can ASK and OBTAIN freely...but data dumps don't need to happen.

I totally get where you're coming from, and that was my point in my earlier post. Make it available for those who ask, but are these media sites legally in the right to publish it in entirety?

The availability of this is awesome, overwhelming, glad we don't live where things can be hidden from the public, etc., AND at the same time... people are nutcases. I could see a second cousin twice removed going after someone just because they didn't like something that was said, when what was said was thought to be shared between the sharing individual and the police to help a case!

I think we may be seeing/hearing about some lawsuits shortly.

 

[Jupiter05]

Exactly. Thank you for saying that. Also with true OCD the behaviors prevent someone from taking part in a normal life-- not being able to leave or go to sleep without checking the locks repeatedly. Cleaning obsessively when there is no dirt and to the point where you miss appointments. Shanann had no signs of that. She was dependable and showed up for her appointments (until the day she was murdered). When her friends said she was a little OCD they only meant she likes a clean and organized life. They didn't mean that she was clinically diagnosed with OCD-- there is a huge difference. JMO.

Right! and when you have two little ones and a husband that needs to be told what to do, other wise he would not, you have to be a bit controlling. It's just called being a mom.

 

[riolove77]

Just found this (* mine):

"There are several clear exemptions in the Colorado Public (Open) Records Act. The first statute exempts correspondence that is work product and *all correspondence with constituents that clearly implies by its nature or content that the constituent expects that it is confidential."*

and this:

"Exempt: *At discretion of custodian: Records of investigations*; test questions; details of research projects being conducted by the state; real estate appraisals; and motor vehicle license photographs. Custodian must Exempt: Medical data; personnel files; letters of reference; trade secrets; library records; addresses of public school children; and sexual harassment complaints under investigation."

Interesting. Not sure how of if the parts I maked with * are applicable. Maybe someone with LE or a law degree might know?

Let me preface this by saying I practice in CA and am not versed on CO law, but I'll do my best to help.

Work product is that which is prepared by an attorney or their agent in anticipation of and preparation for trial. None of what we see released here appears to be the mental impressions/legal strategies, etc. of any attorney. Further, "that the constituent expects to remain confidential" is tricky in the legal context: it's not "These texts are raunchy so I don't want them released." That is embarrassing, sure, but it is not confidential in the sense of attorney-client privilege or work product. Those are legal protections that must remain confidential.

The second part you noted specifically states at discretion of custodian. The DA being the custodian of this discovery, it is clear he chose to release the records of his investigation.

 

[Layla123]

I guess some don't see the purpose in talking about Shanann's faults or perceived faults or personality flaws now. I agree with whoever said why does it even matter? She didn't "do" anything to warrant being murdered no matter how controlling she was or how much money she spent or how many times Chris wiped down the counters as opposed to her. So why does it matter if she had OCD or spent too much time on her phone for work? She's dead. Her husband killed her. He also killed his children and they most certainly didn't do anything to warrant being murdered by their father. I realize no one has said Shannan deserved to be murdered but why the continued need to question her medical issues, her spending habits, her housework habits, etc. We know for a fact now she didn't murder her children. She was murdered. For No Reason. It just feels icky to me. JMO. It feels like some people will not let her rest in peace.

I find the “controlling” criticism to be particularly offensive. SW knew what she wanted, and she knew it would require a dedicated effort of strict self discipline to get it. CW knew who she was when he married her. If he would rather have lived in a cluttered, dirty home, had affairs, and spent his life following professional sports teams, he shouldn’t have married her, and he should have told his parents to shut up!