GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #71

[Seenit]

I think I follow true crime to learn something - at least that's part of it. The takeaway for someone like NK (and the rest of us) should be that adultery could trigger a family annihilation - maybe seek out single guys instead. It doesn't relieve CW of his culpability but you're not innocent when you sleep with a married man either.

Yes! "Love triangles" and infidelity are often triggers to violent crimes.

 

[Doghairrules]

Yes! "Love triangles" and infidelity are often triggers to violent crimes.

And even when it doesn’t end in violence, it causes a world of hurt to everyone involved in some way or another.

 

[molly1255]

So far I'm not convinced that NK played any role in the murders, but I'm trying to keep an open mind to the various theories out there. Since NK is a proven liar and destroyer of evidence, she doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, IMO. Even when NK suspected that foul play was the reason CW's went family missing, she only cared about herself, so she gets no sympathy from me.

ETA. I am very interested in hearing everyone's thoughts about her possible involvement.

JMO, I think CW is a psychopath who took out his pregnant wife and little girls. I don't think NK knew he was going to do it, or that she helped him do it.

That said, her dad should have been mortified to hear the cra* that came out of her mouth in the interview and he should have taken her directly from the interview to a psychiatrist.

She's 30 years old. She's no babe in the woods. She knew there was a pregnant wife and two little girls involved and she simply didn't care, as long as she emerged victorious and could claim the pathetic prize.

If she spent every day for the rest of her life crying for Shanann, Nico, Bella, Celeste and Shanann's family and friends, I think that would be good for her. It would perhaps show she understands she is not a victim and her own motivations and actions played into this tragedy.

I'm not counting on that happening.

JMO

 

[Noreen McGurl]

This might be off topic but I get these Revelations and I just was thinking that he was nothing without Shanann and he got a decent job gorgeous wife and children and became this bodybuilding stud while with Shanann, and if she threatened to leave him because he's being a total a****** to her and the girls he is afraid he's going to lose the one person that has brought him to this Pinnacle of his life. He was never, will never, be anything without her she was what made him.. and in the end the loss of her and her babies is what also destroyed him!! So ironic.. but truly a tribute to you Shanann and your beautiful little angels!!!

 

[Noreen McGurl]

And I hate to say it but it's true a lot of times insecure girls want what other girls have because they have empty lives and they have to fill them with something that they see desirable by somebody they emulate, so when it comes down to it NK wanted to be Shanann because Shanann was loved and adored and smart and beautiful and had everything NK did not have!!

 

[k-mac]

SBM

I've honestly never seen anyone on here taking sides with one woman or the other. In fact, I've seen very little positive stuff posted about NK at all. The two aren't even comparable: one's alive and one's dead; one was the mistress, the other the wife. Drawing the line like that feels like taking sides in an argument that doesn't exist. Human beings are complicated people. I have MANY issues with NK. I've never met the woman, but I can say with pretty good authority that we would not be friends. I've yet to see any redeemable qualities in her in the things that have been released. I don't like people putting words in my mouth, though. Just because I don't think NK was at the house during the murders, or after, or because I think CW is solely responsible for the murders doesn't mean I am taking NK's "side."

there is a poster who the post was replied to who doesn't like anyone critising NK.

that is who it was intended. (although seems this person is a 'former member' now....)

moo

 

[Noreen McGurl]

I am not trying to say that anybody is taking anybody's side but even though Shamann and her babies were killed she was a much stronger woman and I admire her much more than anyone especially NK who is a Lonely Woman yearning for a life and was jealous and wanted somebody else's life and would prey on a week pathetic man who was supposed to be a husband and father but was an object of Desire that became the devil's workshop in the hands of somebody with some serious deep-rooted problems! Shanann is the winner, she had love gave love and did not steal someone elses life, but heart breaks for the loss of her and her angels in this world!! Would never want to be like NK, sad life built from jealousy!

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

I think we'd be shocked if we read those deleted texts - I think NK's push to have a single CW was ramping up and she was putting the pressure on. That doesn't mean she was trying to get anyone killed, but her texts would show us where his mind was at and probably exactly when it switched over.

 

[molly1255]

I think we'd be shocked if we read those deleted texts - I think NK's push to have a single CW was ramping up and she was putting the pressure on. That doesn't mean she was trying to get anyone killed, but her texts would show us where his mind was at and probably exactly when it switched over.

I agree. Imagine how desperate she must have felt, looking at wedding dresses online and her married lover's wife and children were back in town and they were all living in the same house. He was no longer free to see her every night and spend the night at her place anymore.

Wouldn't be surprised if she ramped it up and gave him an ultimatum with a tight deadline, not realizing he would kill his pregnant wife and children, That ultimatum may be one of the big reasons she didn't want LE to see the text messages, because the timing might have made it look as if she was involved. JMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

I agree. Imagine how desperate she must have felt, looking at wedding dresses online and her married lover's wife and children were back in town and they were all living in the same house. He was no longer free to see her every night and spend the night at her place anymore.

Wouldn't be surprised if she ramped it up and gave him an ultimatum with a tight deadline, not realizing he would kill his pregnant wife and children, That ultimatum may be one of the big reasons she didn't want LE to see the text messages, because the timing might have made it look as if she was involved. JMO.

He didn't even tell her that SW was out of town before their date on Sat night. She seemed very surprised to hear that he needed a babysitter, and that the babysitter could not stay all night. She was plenty annoyed that he seemed to be cooling on her apartment selection, he said he had found one for only $1,100 per month which was less expensive than all her choices for him, but he wouldn't tell her where it was. I think her annoyance manifested itself with the insistence on leaving one restaurant to go to another, just to lead him around by the nose a little. This was not some Michelin dining experience to savor, it was a power play to switch sports bar hangouts. She said earlier that sometimes she paid on their dates, I think by the end of that pleasant dining experience she had him in such a browbeaten tizzy that he had to use the CC instead of asking her for a dutch date.
Then the long discussions on Sunday night, ending just a couple of hours before he murdered the family.
Agreed that the perfect storm arose when she returned from NC, no divorce in sight, no separation in sight, and then, my oh my, a babysitter for a 5 hour date is all he could squeeze out on that last weekend even after she had googled some special type of entertainment they could share. IMO, a kind of frantic attempt to keep him interested when it all seemed to be falling apart.
Paraphrased CW said in several ways (emphasizing, IMO) that "If only he had gone with Jeremy to the Broncos game", that indicates the importance of what happened Sat night & Sun night re convos with her.
By that weekend she had surely (IMO) found out SW was pregnant. There were probably some very pointed ultimatums from her, on both Sat night and Sun night.
I re-listened to her meeting with IT and the detectives, the evasion, the outright lying, her telling reference to Verizon allowing "manipulation" of text messages, her lying about telling Charlotte about CW and sending her a photo of him, lie lie lie.
There is just so much missing in her intentions, why insist that he delete FB and then dig in to whether or not he COMPLETELY deleted it? She wanted him to delete his FB, yet never noticed on his wife's very open FB that they were having a baby? In my experience on FB, once a person is searched for, ie Chris Watts, all the other Watts show up right below in a list, no way she could miss SW, even though Watts is a common name. And I think her FB listing would have come right after CW's, because of the algorithms used for pages with similar content and names.
The more I listen to those interviews the more comes to the surface in her evasive, peculiar and dishonest behavior.

 

[molly1255]

He didn't even tell her that SW was out of town before their date on Sat night. She seemed very surprised to hear that he needed a babysitter, and that the babysitter could not stay all night. She was plenty annoyed that he seemed to be cooling on her apartment selection, he said he had found one for only $1,100 per month which was less expensive than all her choices for him, but he wouldn't tell her where it was. I think her annoyance manifested itself with the insistence on leaving one restaurant to go to another, just to lead him around by the nose a little. This was not some Michelin dining experience to savor, it was a power play to switch sports bar hangouts. She said earlier that sometimes she paid on their dates, I think by the end of that pleasant dining experience she had him in such a browbeaten tizzy that he had to use the CC instead of asking her for a dutch date.
Then the long discussions on Sunday night, ending just a couple of hours before he murdered the family.
Agreed that the perfect storm arose when she returned from NC, no divorce in sight, no separation in sight, and then, my oh my, a babysitter for a 5 hour date is all he could squeeze out on that last weekend even after she had googled some special type of entertainment they could share. IMO, a kind of frantic attempt to keep him interested when it all seemed to be falling apart.
Paraphrased CW said in several ways (emphasizing, IMO) that "If only he had gone with Jeremy to the Broncos game", that indicates the importance of what happened Sat night & Sun night re convos with her.
By that weekend she had surely (IMO) found out SW was pregnant. There were probably some very pointed ultimatums from her, on both Sat night and Sun night.
I re-listened to her meeting with IT and the detectives, the evasion, the outright lying, her telling reference to Verizon allowing "manipulation" of text messages, her lying about telling Charlotte about CW and sending her a photo of him, lie lie lie.
There is just so much missing in her intentions, why insist that he delete FB and then dig in to whether or not he COMPLETELY deleted it? She wanted him to delete his FB, yet never noticed on his wife's very open FB that they were having a baby? In my experience on FB, once a person is searched for, ie Chris Watts, all the other Watts show up right below in a list, no way she could miss SW, even though Watts is a common name. And I think her FB listing would have come right after CW's, because of the algorithms used for pages with similar content and names.
The more I listen to those interviews the more comes to the surface in her evasive, peculiar and dishonest behavior.

I agree with everything you are saying.

 

[Nikynoo]

I don't think for a second that Ma Watts knew about the affair - she would have thrown that in Shannan's face for sure when nutgate went down.

I think she knew when CW visited NC the first week of August (after Nutgate).

 

[NuttMegg]

I think she knew when CW visited NC the first week of August (after Nutgate).

And, in the detective interviews, NK said that she had heard all about nutgate from a "3rd person". That is the term she used. The detective repeated that several times, asking if she meant CW. But it was obvious she meant a "3rd person", meaning not CW.
It seems obvious to me, now, that NK had significant contacts with the mother or the sister or both. After all, one of them knew about the affair "from the beginning". And, the father's dialogue with CW in the police department showed to me that the father knew all about the mistress.

Unfortunately CW never bothered to tell SW about his lover, his lover looking for an apartment for him, or about a separation. The only way he could deal with his own dishonesty was to murder her.

ETA I think contact with the mother/sister is where NK learned to badmouth SW re wanting to live "fancy", finances, all the stuff she said nastily about SW.

Remember she badmouthed SW AFTER saying that CW never said anything negative about his wife. NK's words, while badmouthing SW eerily resemble some of CW/RW/sis attitudes towards SW.

 

[x_files]

And even when it doesn’t end in violence, it causes a world of hurt to everyone involved in some way or another.

It seems those that like to create chaos seek out married lovers.

 

[Kittybunny]

And, in the detective interviews, NK said that she had heard all about nutgate from a "3rd person". That is the term she used. The detective repeated that several times, asking if she meant CW. But it was obvious she meant a "3rd person", meaning not CW.
It seems obvious to me, now, that NK had significant contacts with the mother or the sister or both. After all, one of them knew about the affair "from the beginning". And, the father's dialogue with CW in the police department showed to me that the father knew all about the mistress.

Unfortunately CW never bothered to tell SW about his lover, his lover looking for an apartment for him, or about a separation. The only way he could deal with his own dishonesty was to murder her.

ETA I think contact with the mother/sister is where NK learned to badmouth SW re wanting to live "fancy", finances, all the stuff she said nastily about SW.

Remember she badmouthed SW AFTER saying that CW never said anything negative about his wife. NK's words, while badmouthing SW eerily resemble some of CW/RW/sis attitudes towards SW.

NuttMegg - you've posted some really insightful analysis and insights into NK. The implications that she had contacts with mom CW and sister are fascinating. You may be quite right. I don't know if there are any other confidants that Chris could have told at work about this incident, but it does seem to be the most viable explanation. I can't imagine it, but in this family, anything is possible.

If true, that just continues to show the kind of people the Watts' are. Normal people, compassionate people, even if they had badmouthed a daughter-in-law who ended up dead, might have experienced remorse and guilt at this brutal murder, and done some self-reflection and soul-searching as to whether their words and actions contributed to the situation, even if indirectly. But no, not these people. They just continued on their victim-blaming, denial, and total lack of sympathy even for their grandchildren. Have they said one nice word about those poor girls? Their granddaughters? Or has it been all about their poor wronged son?

 

[x_files]

NuttMegg - you've posted some really insightful analysis and insights into NK. The implications that she had contacts with mom CW and sister are fascinating. You may be quite right. I don't know if there are any other confidants that Chris could have told at work about this incident, but it does seem to be the most viable explanation. I can't imagine it, but in this family, anything is possible.

If true, that just continues to show the kind of people the Watts' are. Normal people, compassionate people, even if they had badmouthed a daughter-in-law who ended up dead, might have experienced remorse and guilt at this brutal murder, and done some self-reflection and soul-searching as to whether their words and actions contributed to the situation, even if indirectly. But no, not these people. They just continued on their victim-blaming, denial, and total lack of sympathy even for their grandchildren. Have they said one nice word about those poor girls? Their granddaughters? Or has it been all about their poor wronged son?

Anyone else thinks we'll hear more about NK in the next few years?

 

[human]

I don’t see anything strange in NK issuing an ultimatum. She wanted her dream man and if he was not going to leave his wife, she was moving on.

She may have given him instructions that she wanted to see the divorce papers.

Why divorce and have all the complications is what he figured, I feel.

Getting a babysitter and having to come home on time. Child support. What for? What’s in it for him.

People get divorced all of the time. I’m sure NK thought it was no big deal

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Anyone else thinks we'll hear more about NK in the next few years?

I don’t think we will hear from NK. She’s possibly changed her name and bunkered down in another state. She may have received death threats, even propositions from all types of weirdos, so I doubt she will raise her head shortly. However, quite possible someone from her past runs an expose on her in the future. There are recent YT videos circulating about her possibly being involved so her profile is still intriguing to some.

 

[molly1255]

And, in the detective interviews, NK said that she had heard all about nutgate from a "3rd person". That is the term she used. The detective repeated that several times, asking if she meant CW. But it was obvious she meant a "3rd person", meaning not CW.
It seems obvious to me, now, that NK had significant contacts with the mother or the sister or both. After all, one of them knew about the affair "from the beginning". And, the father's dialogue with CW in the police department showed to me that the father knew all about the mistress.

Unfortunately CW never bothered to tell SW about his lover, his lover looking for an apartment for him, or about a separation. The only way he could deal with his own dishonesty was to murder her.

ETA I think contact with the mother/sister is where NK learned to badmouth SW re wanting to live "fancy", finances, all the stuff she said nastily about SW.

Remember she badmouthed SW AFTER saying that CW never said anything negative about his wife. NK's words, while badmouthing SW eerily resemble some of CW/RW/sis attitudes towards SW.

I've listened to her interviews several times and I didn't catch the 3rd person thing, so I went back and listened to that part again, and you are absolutely right. Very good catch!

It brings to mind the post made by a VI months ago. That VI was close to CW, but wouldn't state her relationship to him. She said she knew about the affair from the very beginning, and later tried to retract that statement.

In her interview, NK was all concerned about him seeing his "people" when he was in NC. JMO, she had her nose right in the middle of it when he was in NC, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if NK reached out to his "people" to try to bring them all back together. That would help her a lot, you know, because Shanann WAS the reason his family was so upset.

The other day, I went back and looked at Shanann's text messages to one of her good friends when CW was in NC, and Shanann was trying to figure out what was wrong and she was very distraught.

Shanann told her friend that CW was deleting text messages with his dad when he was there, and this was occurring in the days before he went to visit his family at their home. His visit with his family was on the last day they were in NC. I think that CW's dad, at a minimum, knew that CW was going to be separating from Shanann days before that visit.

It's so incredibly evil and so twisted. Shanann was getting it from CW, his family and NK was in there big time, manipulating and trying to swing things to her advantage. A few weeks ago, I kind of reached a point where my attitude toward NK softened a little, and I believed CW lied to her.

I'm back where I started in terms of her. She's twisted and she's evil, JMO. I still don't think she was involved in the murders, but she was doing her wicked best to get Shanann out of the picture so she could move on in, JMO.

As for knowing about Shanann's pregnancy, why would that stop someone like NK? IMO, it wouldn't stop her, though she would very much like people to believe that she has some scruples. JMO, there is no way she didn't know about the pregnancy. It was all over facebook, and she lies. She knew. She didn't care, as long as her own nest was feathered.

All JMO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

He didn't even tell her that SW was out of town before their date on Sat night. She seemed very surprised to hear that he needed a babysitter, and that the babysitter could not stay all night. She was plenty annoyed that he seemed to be cooling on her apartment selection, he said he had found one for only $1,100 per month which was less expensive than all her choices for him, but he wouldn't tell her where it was. I think her annoyance manifested itself with the insistence on leaving one restaurant to go to another, just to lead him around by the nose a little. This was not some Michelin dining experience to savor, it was a power play to switch sports bar hangouts. She said earlier that sometimes she paid on their dates, I think by the end of that pleasant dining experience she had him in such a browbeaten tizzy that he had to use the CC instead of asking her for a dutch date.
Then the long discussions on Sunday night, ending just a couple of hours before he murdered the family.
Agreed that the perfect storm arose when she returned from NC, no divorce in sight, no separation in sight, and then, my oh my, a babysitter for a 5 hour date is all he could squeeze out on that last weekend even after she had googled some special type of entertainment they could share. IMO, a kind of frantic attempt to keep him interested when it all seemed to be falling apart.
Paraphrased CW said in several ways (emphasizing, IMO) that "If only he had gone with Jeremy to the Broncos game", that indicates the importance of what happened Sat night & Sun night re convos with her.
By that weekend she had surely (IMO) found out SW was pregnant. There were probably some very pointed ultimatums from her, on both Sat night and Sun night.
I re-listened to her meeting with IT and the detectives, the evasion, the outright lying, her telling reference to Verizon allowing "manipulation" of text messages, her lying about telling Charlotte about CW and sending her a photo of him, lie lie lie.
There is just so much missing in her intentions, why insist that he delete FB and then dig in to whether or not he COMPLETELY deleted it? She wanted him to delete his FB, yet never noticed on his wife's very open FB that they were having a baby? In my experience on FB, once a person is searched for, ie Chris Watts, all the other Watts show up right below in a list, no way she could miss SW, even though Watts is a common name. And I think her FB listing would have come right after CW's, because of the algorithms used for pages with similar content and names.
The more I listen to those interviews the more comes to the surface in her evasive, peculiar and dishonest behavior.

She seems to be a control freak and a manipulator. And as much as I don’t believe she knew of his evil plans, you just never know what some people will do for a thrill.