Coincidences

[claudicici]

I don't think the play was ever published...but I wonder about the book the play was based on ,did anyone read that?

 

[claudicici]

I just looked it up and there were more than one books written about that murder.
This one really caught my attention:

Feminist Kate Millett wrote a semi-fictional book relating to the incident, The Basement: Meditations on a Human Sacrifice. Millett stated in an interview that the murder of Sylvia Likens "is the story of the suppression of women. Gertrude seems to have wanted to administer some terrible truthful justice to this girl: that this was what it was to be a woman."[13] Millett also created an art installation in 1978, The Trial of Sylvia Likens, that depicts a courtroom scene with the five defendants.[15]
I do think the way JB was killed would fit in with that.It would mostly fit in with JMCR point of view that in some ways JB deserved to die,that this was what it was to be a woman....but I can also see PR thinking along those lines ,finally rebelling against the woman she had to be.

 

[claudicici]

here is JMCR quote again:
“I feel that ….the media is (sic) saying to this collective community…in some way she deserved to die. That, at least, is a message that I am getting: She deserved to die, she was too beautiful. She deserved to die because she was from an affluent family. She deserved to die because she lived in an upscale community. She deserved to die because her family taught her gestures which might be interpreted as sexually suggestive. She deserved to die because she was in beauty pageants….. And to me, that is a crucifixion of an innocent victim.”

 

[eileenhawkeye]

here is JMCR quote again:
“I feel that ….the media is (sic) saying to this collective community…in some way she deserved to die. That, at least, is a message that I am getting: She deserved to die, she was too beautiful. She deserved to die because she was from an affluent family. She deserved to die because she lived in an upscale community. She deserved to die because her family taught her gestures which might be interpreted as sexually suggestive. She deserved to die because she was in beauty pageants….. And to me, that is a crucifixion of an innocent victim.”

I don't think the media acted like JonBenet deserved to die so it's interesting that Janet McReynolds would say that. Was she trying to justify something that she believed? I'm not necessarily of the "Santa did it" camp; I'm just bringing up possibilities. The media seemed to have more of a, "How could SHE be MURDERED?!" attitude.

 

[BBB167893]

Actually, I think from memory it was said he was unable to be ruled out as the owner of the DNA. Not sure now if he was still alive when the touch-DNA was discovered?

Apparently he provided the BPD with his 'running writing' sample rather than 'printing'. It was this printing that Peterson had found on a former student's papers that convinced him that Bill was the author.

There are so many coincidences about this family that it's hard to ignore.

It helps to remember, Murri, that the DA's office was as focused on McSanta as (YOU CLAIM) the police were on the Rs.

 

[BBB167893]

There is male DNA unaccounted for. I think that trumps Patsy not being ruled out as the note writer. (I dont mean that in a snotty way)

Depends on how you look at it, Peepers. DNA is immensely easy to transfer and there's no proof as yet it was left that night. By contrast, we KNOW Patsy was in the house that night and she came the closest to an out-and-out match out of anyone.

Not being ruled out does not mean she definitely wrote it. Maybe if they tested me or you we wouldnt be ruled out either.

Well, that's certainly the line the RST has fed us these many years!

 

[DeeDee249]

They tested lots of people, not just a few. ALL were ruled out EXCEPT Patsy.

 

[MurriFlower]

depends on how you look at it, peepers. Dna is immensely easy to transfer and there's no proof as yet it was left that night. By contrast, we know patsy was in the house that night and she came the closest to an out-and-out match out of anyone.



Well, that's certainly the line the rst has fed us these many years!

rst??

 

[MurriFlower]

It helps to remember, Murri, that the DA's office was as focused on McSanta as (YOU CLAIM) the police were on the Rs.

Really? Perhaps they were trying to find the murderer.

 

[MurriFlower]

here is JMCR quote again:
“I feel that ….the media is (sic) saying to this collective community…in some way she deserved to die. That, at least, is a message that I am getting: She deserved to die, she was too beautiful. She deserved to die because she was from an affluent family. She deserved to die because she lived in an upscale community. She deserved to die because her family taught her gestures which might be interpreted as sexually suggestive. She deserved to die because she was in beauty pageants….. And to me, that is a crucifixion of an innocent victim.”

McSanta (and Mrs McR) went on TV several times and were frequently quoted in the press. He spoke at the funeral. In fact, it was as if he wanted to be noticed.



Here are a few exerpts you might find interesting:

"At his first party in the Ramsey home in 1995, McReynolds said he was instantly struck by JonBenet's quiet smile and her "pensive, almost retiring" ways. He saw within her something he described as an angelic glow.
At that same party, the little girl handed McReynolds a vial of gold glitter as he was leaving. No child had ever given him a gift while playing Santa. She gave him another last Christmas.
"The star dust was all I took with me for good luck when I had heart surgery (last summer)," McReynolds said. "Her murder was harder on me than my operation. She made a profound change in me.
"I felt very close to that little girl. I don't really have other children that I have this special relationship with - not even my own children or my own grandchildren . . . "When I die, I'm going to be cremated. I've asked my wife to mix the star dust JonBenet gave me with my ashes. We're going to go up behind the cabin here and have it blow away in the wind."
At JonBenet's funeral, McReynolds handed Patsy one of those vials and walked away without looking at her. Patsy called out: "Santa? Will you come to the party next year?" That won't happen, McReynolds said. He has retired. It would be too painful, he said, to don the Santa suit ever again.
"

"McReynolds loved JonBenet. His fireplace was littered with photographs of her. When Newsweek reporter Dan Glick visited McReynolds at his Nederland home, McReynolds showed him a small wooden harp with the names of dead children carved on it's side. When McReynolds held the harp up, he shared a small secret with the veteran reporter, who later shared it with me.
"I've saved a small place right here for JonBenet's name," McReynolds told Glick.
"

"That same year, Charles Kuralt chose me as a Santa for his TV show. The crew followed me from one party to another for three days. By December 23, they'd had enough, so they skipped the Ramsey party.
Patsy was disappointed they weren't coming. As always, she wrote little notes about each child on this lengthy scroll. That evening, I told these stories as I passed out presents. JonBenet gave me a vial of stardust for my beard. Patsy presented me with a beautiful scarf and said, "You're a member of the family." I was a member of their club, and I wasn't a wealthy person.
Looking back, I always thought that if anybody wanted to do major damage to this family, they could do it at Christmas, because they all adored Christmas."
"

""She had an angel's spirit, which is unusual not only among adults, but children, and I'm just devastated that she's gone," McReynolds said.
(snip)
Another close family friend didn't notice anything unusual with the family Monday night.
"I was at the party, and everybody was just so happy," he said. "JonBenet was taking Santa around, and she was with her brother (10-year-old Burke) for a while. The two of them just got along wonderfully."
Indeed, JonBenet doted on her older brother, McReynolds said.
"Last year, she wanted to make sure I spent enough time with him," McReynolds said. "And she always wanted to make sure everyone was having a good time, which is why I was so surprised that she was so young ... I'll really miss her angel spirit."
"

Then when they started to look seriously at him as a suspect, he got nervous:

"A former top investigator in the JonBenét Ramsey case has joined the tragic tyke's parents in pointing the finger of suspicion at Bill McReynolds - the man who played Santa at the Ramsey family Christmas party two days before her murder, say sources.

But in an exclusive interview, McReynolds, 67, told GLOBE that he's totally innocent.

"A suspicion by some that I could have had anything to do with the murder of JonBenét Ramsey has been a continuing torture," says the retired journalism professor.

"I only saw JonBenét Ramsey five times in my life, and certainly not on the night she was so brutally killed."
"

Considering the impact she supposedly had on him both before and after his death, it seems strange that he would try to diminish this by saying he had only ever seen her five times, after his strange obsession with JBR had been noticed by others.

 

[claudicici]

very strange,to say the least...
there are just too many "coincidences" pointing toward the MCR's...
but like I said before if the R's were innocent why would they seem to have tried to cover up so many things?
Santa's way of thinking seems to have a lot of similarity to the way PR was thinking.Santa seemed waaaayyy too close for comfort to JB after just having seen her 5 times.....I do think it's very possible he had something to do with what happened but that does not mean I think PR is innocent any longer....It almost sounds like PR and Santa were jealous of each other's "closeness" to JB.When McR hands her the vial but would not look at her doesn't that sound like he is also blaming her for something?
I know the Santa's were very much against the pagant world maybe the Santas were instilling too much of their influence on JB and she did not want to participate anymore?

 

[BBB167893]

rst??

RST is the abbreviated form of Ramsey Spin Team. Not to be confused with IDI, which is mostly regular people, this describes the people who benefit monetarily from trying to undercut the evidence against the Rs. Unlike IDI, who seem to have a legitimate belief in Ramsey innocence, these people don't care what the evidence is, because they can make a good living being contrarian. These include the Ramseys' lawyers, public relations people, and hired "investigators."

Really?

REALLY. ST's book describes this in great detail, as does PMPT.

Perhaps they were trying to find the murderer.

I notice the police don't get that kind of consideration from you! More importantly, I sincerely doubt it. Indeed, from what I can gather, they were looking for someone they could hang the killing on, who couldn't afford the kind of million-dollar legal team the Rs had, the kind that so terrified the DA's office. Much easier to railroad some poor old fool with a public defender.

 

[Tadpole12]

But in an exclusive interview, McReynolds, 67, told GLOBE that he's totally innocent.

"A suspicion by some that I could have had anything to do with the murder of JonBenét Ramsey has been a continuing torture," says the retired journalism professor.

"I only saw JonBenét Ramsey five times in my life, and certainly not on the night she was so brutally killed."
"

Considering the impact she supposedly had on him both before and after his death, it seems strange that he would try to diminish this by saying he had only ever seen her five times, after his strange obsession with JBR had been noticed by others.

Heyya MF.

Ya, that is a rather odd comment, that he would defensively specify a number.
But it is a quote from the Globe, and tabloid sources are debatable.

 

[Agatha_C]

This is a silly thought but one that has crossed my mind on too many occasions for me to ignore, so I'm throwing it out here..

Does anyone know how involved PR was with the play? Maybe she read it, or was asked to fund the production, heck maybe she was even going to be the star.

And the winner for best actress in a murder drama PR!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SunnieRN]

Anyone who would play Santa for wealthy families and who was also a journalist would be able to use the media attention to dramatize their involvement. We are, each one of us touched by other people throughout the course of our lives. It is part of what makes us human.

I have no question that JonBenet impressed Santa McReynolds, If she was the only child to ever give him a gift, it would have touched him and left a lasting impression.

The interviews sound very dramatized to me. I am sure that was either through McRenolds own mouth or by the reporters who wrote the story. This does not make him guilty.

Have any of you known a person who had open heart surgery, watched the recovery process or note the time it took to regain their strength? I can not imagine a man of his age and physical condition that would be able to move stealth like through a house and perform this crime.

One more point. How do we know Patsy never read the play? Because she 'said so'? That means absolutely nothing in my book!

 

[Agatha_C]

Since this thread is called coincidence's, I'm going to post this here....

What if I told you all, that SBTC, is a level from a 1995 video game called "Rayman" and the level "Summit Beyond the Clouds"? Its not a N64 game, but like I said, it came out in 1995, so what game did he have prior (We will never know, unless we know of someone to ask).

What if I add to that by telling you, that "Mortal Kombat" was a huge deal in 90's, not only a number one game but also two movies that were box office hits. At the end of a fighting match the winner yells "Victory"?

 

[MurriFlower]

Since this thread is called coincidence's, I'm going to post this here....

What if I told you all, that SBTC, is a level from a 1995 video game called "Rayman" and the level "Summit Beyond the Clouds"? Its not a N64 game, but like I said, it came out in 1995, so what game did he have prior (We will never know, unless we know of someone to ask).

What if I add to that by telling you, that "Mortal Kombat" was a huge deal in 90's, not only a number one game but also two movies that were box office hits. At the end of a fighting match the winner yells "Victory"?

Good one Agatha. If you've read this whole thread, you will see that there was also a coincidence with someone of the same name as McSanta's son, (Jesse McReynolds), who is a programmer, credited with being involved in the development of the following games:

Games Credited

* Diablo II (2000), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.
* Diablo II (Collector's Edition) (2000), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.
* Diablo (1997), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.
* Norse by Norse West: The Return of the Lost Vikings (1997), Interplay Entertainment Corp.
* Justice League Task Force (1995), Acclaim Entertainment, Inc.
* Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness (1995), Blizzard Entertainment Europe
* The Death and Return of Superman (1994), SunSoft
* WarCraft: Orcs & Humans (1994), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.

 

[Agatha_C]

Murri, I can see the coincidence and it is one of those things that make you go HMMM? Then, I remember, google, phone listings for the entire US OF A, Facebook, you get the point, I'm sure. Do a search and see how many Jesse McReynolds or Jesse S McReynolds (middle name Stephen) there are. Once I did, it made the possibility of coincidence more believable.

Also in my small town there are three other people that I share both first and last names. One of them lives only 4 blocks away from me and I've worked with another, they even mixed out w2"s up. About six months ago, a tow truck showed up, to repo a car belonging to one of them, but he was given my address.......

Coincidence...... Hmmmmm maybe thats all it is.

Just how glaringly obvious are the McSanta's? Tell me why they would point more towards themselves then away?

 

[joeskidbeck]

This is a really sad thread, when you think about it. It's supposed to be about coincidences, but I for one, really believe that JonBenet touched the heart of Bill McReynolds. And I don't think it's coincidence. After all, how many children would think to give a gift to Santa Claus? I know of it happening one time at our church. My husband was the one to play Santa for several years. One year a little 4 year old girl climbed into his lap ad handed him a gift. I could see the puzzled look on his face and wondered what he would say? After a few seconds, she said, this is for you, Santa. I bet nobody ever gives you anything and you deserve it more than anybody. I can tell you right now that the tears that fell from my husband eyes were real and that to this day, he hasn't forgotten that little girl. So what if McSanta only met JonBenet five times, and so what if he thought she was special, none of this points to him being her killer. I think he didn't look at Patsy at the funeral because he felt, like many of us, that she killed that beautiful little angel. I don't think I could have looked at her either. Oh yeah, the gift from the little girl was one of these plaster things with her hand print and her name and the date painted on. He still has it on his desk today and loves to tell the story of how he received it.

 

[MurriFlower]

Murri, I can see the coincidence and it is one of those things that make you go HMMM? Then, I remember, google, phone listings for the entire US OF A, Facebook, you get the point, I'm sure. Do a search and see how many Jesse McReynolds or Jesse S McReynolds (middle name Stephen) there are. Once I did, it made the possibility of coincidence more believable.

Also in my small town there are three other people that I share both first and last names. One of them lives only 4 blocks away from me and I've worked with another, they even mixed out w2"s up. About six months ago, a tow truck showed up, to repo a car belonging to one of them, but he was given my address.......

Coincidence...... Hmmmmm maybe thats all it is.

Yeah, it might only be a coincidence, but the son was depicted in front of his computer in the Hard Copy footage and I don't think he ran his own business or anything, so you wonder in 1996/7 how many people had a room for their computer.

Just how glaringly obvious are the McSanta's? Tell me why they would point more towards themselves then away?

Well, if you've read this thread you probably know all the maybes. I'll run through it briefly:

McSanta's middle daughter, then 9, was abducted along with a friend in Longmont and witnessed the sexual molestation of her friend. The incident occurred on Dec. 26, 1974. No suspects were ever arrested. The adult daughter now works as a counsellor for abused kids.

Mrs Santa (then known as Doris Ballew) wrote a play in 1976, called "Hey Rube," about the sexual assault, torture and murder of a girl whose body was found in a basement. The play was based on the real torture and murder of Sylvia Likens. She also wrote under the pseud of Jan Stephen.

There was a Doris Ballew who aparently had an infant son that died on December 26th 1961 when he was 10 days old. Jefferey Ballew, Dec. 26, 1961, also a daughter born & died on 26 July 1960.

Mrs Santa was also a movie critic for the local newspaper.

The Christmas party of the 23rd was at the instigation of McSanta as he said he was being filmed for a documentary, however, apparently the film crew had lost interest. Whether there was a documentary at all hasn't been confirmed or denied. The local paper put in an article presumably given to them by McSanta so.....

Mrs McSanta accompanied him to the Rs, supposedly to help as he was so weak, but a guest commented that she was rather surly and he didn't need her help anyway.

The night of the Christmas party was when the first 911 call was made.

JBR took Santa on a tour of the house.

LPH and her daughter Ariana were invited to stay at the last minute by PR, who lent Ariana a Christmas jacket and shoes. Following McSanta's death, LHP is quoted as saying: “There’s no doubt in my mind that these false accusations hastened Bill’s death. He had a weak heart to begin with and that kind of endless stress didn’t help.” That would indicate they knew each other better than they would having only met once previously.

JBR told her friend's Mother that Secret Santa was visiting on Christmas night (no not Christmas eve - she was adamant).

There is a story that "Santa Bill" owned a harp (is this an angel's harp?) that he carved names of dead children into. Apparently he had another young friend who was also murdered! He had left a space for JBRs name on the harp.

Aside from having the same name as someone who worked as a computer programmer for violent role play games, Jessie McReynolds served two and a half years in an Arizona prison for conspiracy. Former Kidnapping charge was a botched $113 gas station robbery in Arizona, where he forced clerk to move from Point A to Point B, thus the kidnapping charge. Investigated by Steve Thomas & Ron Gosage, Alibi: Home, drink scotch, took prescription Rx Went to bed.

The McSanta's other son was known to have been to the Rs house when he delivered a gingerbread house from his bakery.

Chris Wolf who was also a Rs suspect denied knowing McSanta, however, he had served as an academic advisor to Wolf at the University of Colorado. Wolf was a 'stripper'. McSanta liked (adult only according to him). Chris Wolf tried to date Susannah Chase who was killed Christmas a year after JB was murdered.

Pete Peterson the PI that "Amy's" father engaged to investigate his daughter's sexual assault in her home, (similar to the MO of JBR's killer) was convinced (from obtaining previous example of printing) that McSanta wrote the RN.

There are numerous quotes, both before and after the murder by this couple that cast suspicion.

So, when RDI talkes about the "totallity of evidence" this could also be applied to the McSanta family.