Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #11

[Mrs G Norris]

From the few emails that have been published it appears she was very much self absorbed, concerned with appearances and how the world viewed her. She may have felt that revealing this information to others would have reflected badly on her as the "perfect" mother. She appears to have had some real issues. jmo

Yep, she may even have downplayed to her friends what she saw in his room too for that exact reason.

 

[LambChop]

Yep, she may even have downplayed to her friends what she saw in his room too for that exact reason.

What bothers me about her is that in the email conversations to her male/mail friend she is discussing her supposed terminal illness but admits she has not discussed it with her husband, family or other friends. That is really odd considering she had young children. I'm inclined to believe she is fabricating many of her stories to this man. It would be interesting to see some more of her correspondence to get a handle on what she really was about and how much of her influence affected her son. Just that brief snapshot of her in 1999 tells us a lot but obviously there is more to it than what we see on the surface. jmo

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Oh yes, it does sound like she was fabricating that. Was it just me, or did her glee at playing both sides of the fence at the feuding wedding strike everyone as 'off' too? Bugged me.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

NL herself said she had these genetic defects and after reading her emails, I don't find it all surprising that she was in denial over some things. She obviously was trying to impress the person she was emailing with, so I'm sure that she hid a lot of "herself" from this person and others when it came to her own "cold" nature. She IMO, clearly had issues herself which may have interfered with her own cognitive thinking and ability to see the danger in her own home. She was obsessed with the danger in the outside world.

I know a lot of people that have large gun collections, but I don't know of any that leave them laying all over the house. One for protection maybe.

After reading the emails and some of the other recent posts, I'm just going to conclude that she wasn't "right' either.

What does that leave then, when you have two people living together in a home that are mentally impaired? What could have been done, what can be done, in the future to intervene and by who?

 

[jjenny]

I disagree that deinstitutionalisation has been a cause of these massacres. Australia went through the same process of closing down the big mental hospitals/homes and we have a similar system now to America. We never see mass murders here. People either harm themselves, family and occasionally a total stranger with a knife or something. I think there is something else on top of inadequate mental health care. Easy access to guns for one. Something else that makes violence and random murdering attractive to alienated people, I don't know.

Unlike US, doesn't Australia has strict gun control?

 

[4MYGUYS]

NL herself said she had these genetic defects and after reading her emails, I don't find it all surprising that she was in denial over some things. She obviously was trying to impress the person she was emailing with, so I'm sure that she hid a lot of "herself" from this person and others when it came to her own "cold" nature. She IMO, clearly had issues herself which may have interfered with her own cognitive thinking and ability to see the danger in her own home. She was obsessed with the danger in the outside world.

I know a lot of people that have large gun collections, but I don't know of any that leave them laying all over the house. One for protection maybe.

After reading the emails and some of the other recent posts, I'm just going to conclude that she wasn't "right' either.

What does that leave then, when you have two people living together in a home that are mentally impaired? What could have been done, what can be done, in the future to intervene and by who?[/quote]

BBM: THAT is my concern too! Amongst other things, I think the psychological profile of who is deemed a possible danger to themselves and others needs to be changed to include the "Lanza" profile. Guns in the home needs a category.

Legally I am assuming all of her assets will be lost, but can the families also go after the father?

I think it possible that the killing spree was first a 'one upper' gamesmanship of his cold sick thinking, but also, I think he was hateful enough to hope to leave a revengeful mark on his father, by destroying their name.

 

[21merc7]

It is clear to me that Adam was never properly diagnosed. Either b/c his mom didn't want him to be as it would tarnish the image to the outside world, or because he simply was not taken often enough for anyone to know. Or a combo of both.

After reading the mom's emails (ay yi yi) from 1999, it seems false image is of utmost importance. It also seems, but may not be true, that the family was extremely active with others all of the time. If all of that changed when the divorce came that could further distress Adam, who still is not properly diagnosed, nor treated. He may have been used to lots of out of the home activities with family and friends, and when it ended, he may have thought it was because of him being different, or he blamed the parents and did not like the new quiet life - until he could adjust and make it his new life of sorts.

By reports, he would stand there and not talk if not spoken to when in school, he would not make eye contact, he began self mutilating, he would not tolerate others touching him and went further to not tolerate anyone in his space at all, he refused to speak with anyone and only emailed his mother, very focused on one subject at a time, and then we have to remember any family influence throughout his life, and any (if any) genetic influence. All of this looks to me like paranoid schizophrenic - after having met a few people that truly are - and it does begin to worsen around age 14. It never gets better, it can only be treated, but still he would know he was not normal, and so would everyone else. He needed proper diagnosis and treatment. It cannot be forced on anyone though, so this is where it ended up.

A teen in a room full of shot at target left overs, gun manuals, internet acess, a home full of guns and ammo, and a mom that caves to every demand as she is in denial or simply does not want others to know the full story. A teen full of angst, hormones, family disappointments, and a mind that is not exactly like others (he may have even been seeing and hearing things by this age, but we do not know), with full rule of what he wants, when he wants it, how it wants it. A crazed King. His mother is his slave, and he a pandered slave to his every whim.

 

[Brightbird]

Unlike US, doesn't Australia has strict gun control?

Yes that was my point. With our gun control law, unstable people living in the community aren't likely to go loco with a gun. I'm not sure that institutionalising people, most of whom are harmless, is the answer to prevent these kinds of massacres. Guns seem like a big part of the problem. Instead of putting people in institutionalisations, address the gun control problem. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that the mentally ill should be locked up so it doesn't impact 'normal' peoples freedom to collect guns. Who interest's are being look after there?

Not all mass shooters are raving mad either. And lots with mental illness live peacefully in the community. Why take away their liberties because of the minority who want to shoot up strangers. The common denominator to these massacres is an angry alienated man with a gun. The mental health system needs to improve but so do attitudes that make it ok to leave multiple assault weapon guns lying around the house for unstable people to use like AL did. If NL has gotten a psych exam for AL, we'll never know if he would have stayed at home or been committed. Maybe he good have a got a case manager. There were services NL could have accessed.

 

[4MYGUYS]

Good posts, & Thank you 21merc7!
Brightbird: how about a psych eval of NL!
This case has certainly made me look at some of the "oddballs" within my own family.

 

[K_Z]

I’ve been reading here for a while, but haven’t commented on this thread till now. I appreciate reading everyone’s opinions and thoughts, especially the opinions that are so different from my own.

My own opinion is that this young man was tremendously, and chronically, compromised, both mentally and socially. I’m not certain at all that he was actually in touch with reality, and I'm not sure at all to what degree he would be legally responsible for his actions had he lived. This kid (man child) was deeply, deeply mired in mental illness-- defects that had been present and obvious his entire life. (Remember the story about taking him to the barber??) This kid should have had at least a dozen or more mental health diagnoses, imo, from what has been released after the fact. AL needed an entire TEAM of mental health professionals, from at least middle school on, and probably in elementary school as well. I don’t believe that the last weeks or months of his life were any sort of new onset of his serious mental illness, but just represented a final descent that the mother was unable to effectively handle due to her own denial, and since he was now “of age”.

I strongly believe she and his father ARE at fault for completely neglecting this child’s serious mental and social issues for most of his childhood. He was not just a little “odd”, with Aspergers. There is almost nothing that was anywhere on the spectrum of “normal” about this child’s behaviors from very early on. Had they assertively faced his issues, and insisted that he had a team of medical and mental health professionals with whom he interacted at least weekly, then they could have pursued guardianship/ conservatorship as he approached 18 years of age. They could have planned for him to live his life in a supported and supervised fashion in the community, as they aged, and the public would have had “some” protection from his madness. At least there would have been a safety net of professionals, and more people around him to assess him on a regular basis.

I am beyond stunned that the mother (and father) couldn’t see that this man child was never going to be mentally and socially well enough to live alone, hold a job, go to school, and/ or manage his life independently. Instead, NL assumed she could “handle” him, was deeply mired in denial, and went out of her way to enable his very serious symptoms—even purchasing firearms and teaching him to shoot, while knowing of his continuous violent fantasies.

NL wasn’t “misguided” or ignorant, IMO-- a decade of denial, enabling, and self centeredness on her part made AL into what he was Dec 14, 2012. She was an odd woman, but completely in touch with reality, and smart enough to seek APPROPRIATE, and ongoing help for him, AND for herself. And she didn’t. And I think it is not just okay, but essential, to talk about this to increase public awareness, and hopefully persuade other parents to seek help for their disturbed kids WELL BEFORE they turn 18.

I am very sorry NL was also a murder victim of this person, but in my opinion, her murder doesn&#8217;t lessen the depth of her responsibility for what he became over time.<modsnip>. I believe the whole Sandy Hook massacre was entirely preventable&#8212;but the time to prevent it was YEARS before it ever happened. The family had more than adequate resources to get this kid a huge team of professionals&#8212;but they didn&#8217;t. Yes, our mental health system is inadequate and fragmented&#8212;but it DOES work most of the time IF the family and loved ones around a mental health patient are persistent and vigilant. There was absolutely no "plan" for this kid, other than calling 911 in a crisis. This kid fell thru the cracks at every opportunity, and mostly BECAUSE the family had money and resources.

I believe it is okay and honest for us to hold his parents accountable in conversation, for their years of neglect. I believe that we can feel outrage, and STILL feel compassion for NL as a mother of a profoundly disturbed manchild, and a murder victim herself. AL was deeply, profoundly mentally ill. He wasn't just a little shy and eccentric, with weird hobbies. IMO. The time to prevent Sandy Hook was years before the massacre. And I think that's why we all feel so helpless and outraged.

 

[4MYGUYS]

........(respectfully snipped) ....it never gets better, it can only be treated, but still he would know he was not normal, and so would everyone else. He needed proper diagnosis and treatment. It cannot be forced on anyone though, so this is where it ended up.
.

But these are no longer rare occurrences. And as therapy at this point cannot be forced, how on earth can we protect ourselves from these internal terrorists killing our children? As a society we must find ways to intervene. If we know of a threat from an enemy agent, today that group or individual is detained and questioned. This is no different IMHO. Granted "knowing" of a threat is a key here, but more focus needs to be taken seriously and strenuously at this time looking at these types of individuals and who they are living with and where they are living. I would call it "Lanza" profiling, needed by our schools, professionals and LE.

 

[4MYGUYS]

Thanks 21 and KZ:
Common denominator seems to be parents who absent themselves, and their kids who have total control.

 

[LambChop]

It appears the father had no control over AL. As a parent you can push to get your child help but if the other parent is controlling and decides that she is the one that can better handle her child the father may have been powerless to get AL the help he needed. From NL's description of the father's work schedule it appears he was gone for long hours during the day, up at dawn and home late at night 10-12pm. Such is the life of an executive. They seemed to have been well provided for. It is sometimes very difficult for a man to go against the wishes of the mother when it comes to her children and I could see this happening here. I'm sure she told Dad that she was the one home with him and only she knew what was best for him. I can see her saying that. It could have been a deciding factor for them to dissolve their marriage.

There is no proof or evidence, that we know of, that the father didn't do everything possible to get help for his son. It appears only the mother was aware of what her son was up to and only the mother provided him with the guns and allowed him to buy the ammunition for those guns. Since AL no longer had contact with his father by AL's choice one could suppose Mom had 100% influence on her son and/or AL was able to manipulate her more so than his Dad. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Do not attack family members unless you have a link to prove they were negligent. So far the only information I have seen is on the mother.lease:lease:lease:

 

[x_files]

Do not attack family members unless you have a link to prove they were negligent. So far the only information I have seen is on the mother.lease:lease:lease:

Sadly, enough she paid the ultimate price for it.

 

[rachaellouise]

I think the pedophillic supporting literature that was found on ALS computer was from that group of guys.. Boy lovers society or something? Where grown men justify pedophillia. Weird and gross.

 

[HMSHood]

I think the pedophillic supporting literature that was found on ALS computer was from that group of guys.. Boy lovers society or something? Where grown men justify pedophillia. Weird and gross.

That really raises the red flag right there. I notice many child killers, bullies, serial killers, rampage killers, terrorists, or dictators have poor relationship with parental figure(s).

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I disagree that deinstitutionalisation has been a cause of these massacres. Australia went through the same process of closing down the big mental hospitals/homes and we have a similar system now to America. We never see mass murders here. People either harm themselves, family and occasionally a total stranger with a knife or something. I think there is something else on top of inadequate mental health care. Easy access to guns for one. Something else that makes violence and random murdering attractive to alienated people, I don't know.

I think you have to factor in how militarised America is too .. as far as culturally, there is a lot more emphasis placed on the military, military might, military ideation etc in the USA than most other western developed countries. Add to that the glorification of violence in entertainment media including movies, TV, music and video games AND a ready access to military weapons and it's no wonder they suffer from mass shootings so much more than most countries. It's a combination of factors IMO.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think the pedophillic supporting literature that was found on ALS computer was from that group of guys.. Boy lovers society or something? Where grown men justify pedophillia. Weird and gross.

Hang on what?? Do you mean the North American Man/Boy Love Association?

 

[LambChop]

I think you have to factor in how militarised America is too .. as far as culturally, there is a lot more emphasis placed on the military, military might, military ideation etc in the USA than most other western developed countries. Add to that the glorification of violence in entertainment media including movies, TV, music and video games AND a ready access to military weapons and it's no wonder they suffer from mass shootings so much more than most countries. It's a combination of factors IMO.

America is trapped by the world thinking we will solve the problem. We will send our troops in. In many cases today the majority of the military presence in hostile areas are Americans but many other countries contribute their troops also. Pearl Harbor taught the US a lesson on being prepared.

You have to wonder if AL registered for the draft, was deferred for medical reasons and he did not like it.

The games are awful and I'd be going after those that produce this type of trash for kids to play.....It's not a game that people should be playing. If these games were banned from the market I'd be the first one to throw a party. jmo