Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #11

[FragileSugar]

Yes, the deer

I wish we had some kind of inkling as to what her ex husband was like. I feel bad for coming away with such a negative opinion of her, because no matter her flaws, she did not deserve her death, and she was not the only parent to AL. The husband was, apparently, around very little due to work. If the family dynamic was unhealthy, and contributing to AL's decline, he is 50% of that equation, after all (or his absence is). I do not feel, as I have read elsewhere, that ALs problems were due solely to NL supposedly being a terrible mother (and I guess I feel the need to say that it's possible she was a terrible person, but t still a caring, devoted mother to her own kids).

Just tossing out thoughts, and wrestling with feeling a bit guilty about my impressions!

I am also very curious as to the relationship AL had with his father. I did read in one of the articles that after the divorce AL saw his father and brother weekly and would do things together:

The Lanzas had joint custody of Adam, who was 17 in 2009, although he lived with his mother.

After the divorce, Peter Lanza continued to see his sons weekly, taking them skiing, hiking, rock climbing, to coin shows and on overnights at his Stamford apartment, the person who has recently been in touch with Peter Lanza said...

But during the following year, 2010, Adam severed all contact with his father.

"Something happened with Adam," the person in touch with Lanza said. "Given the amount of time they were spending with each other, it was a sudden shift."

During this period, Adam also cut contacts with his brother, Ryan, who lived in Hoboken, N.J., and worked at a New York City financial firm.

Around this time, in 2010, Nancy Lanza was no longer in communication with her younger brother, James Champion, a military veteran and a ranking officer with Kingston police. Adam had looked up to his Uncle Jim, but Nancy began to discourage Adam from emulating his uncle, according to LaFontaine.

LaFontaine said he ran into Champion in Kingston in 2011 or early 2012 and asked him about his sister. By that time, after 10 years of regular contact, Nancy Lanza was no longer communicating regularly with LaFontaine.

Ahh there is my answer as to whether NL was still communicating with LaFontaine too! It sounds like she cut off contact with him around 2010 also.

The more I think about it, I am convinced that NL is the one that instigated the withdrawal of AL from his father and RL and society. She was cutting herself off from those closest to her the same time that AL disappears off the face of the earth. From her emails she comes across as someone who could be manipulative. It would explain AL's anger towards her - she discourages AL from communicating with his father, brother, and uncle, she cuts off contact with her brother and LaFontaine. She continued to go on her trips and left AL alone in that house. That might even explain why he immersed himself in video games if his mother was no longer letting him communicate with others. I wonder if her condition was worsening. She mentioned having a lesion on her brain in one of her emails to LaFontaine. Maybe it was affecting her mental health? Since AL shot her four times in the face at close range I am assuming there was nothing left of her brain for them to determine this. (That sounds so harsh but I am unsure of how else to word it. )

However nothing I read gives any explanation as to why AL would go to the school.

 

[i.b.nora]

But, Nancy did go to her brother's retirement dinner/ceremony/dealie in 2011.

 

[jjenny]

I think it's the other way around. AL started off relatively normal as a child. He grew worse. I think he started cutting himself off from the rest of the world, and NL followed somewhat. If AL didn't want to communicate with his father and brother, it would be difficult for NL to communicate with them.

 

[jjenny]

Yes, the deer

I wish we had some kind of inkling as to what her ex husband was like. I feel bad for coming away with such a negative opinion of her, because no matter her flaws, she did not deserve her death, and she was not the only parent to AL. The husband was, apparently, around very little due to work. If the family dynamic was unhealthy, and contributing to AL's decline, he is 50% of that equation, after all (or his absence is). I do not feel, as I have read elsewhere, that ALs problems were due solely to NL supposedly being a terrible mother (and I guess I feel the need to say that it's possible she was a terrible person, but t still a caring, devoted mother to her own kids).

Just tossing out thoughts, and wrestling with feeling a bit guilty about my impressions!

By spending a lot of time away at work he was providing for their lifestyle. Even after the divorce, he was paying NL enorumous amounts of support. I believe it was more than half his salary-which has to be very generous.
I guess he could have stopped working to spend more time with the family, but then who would support them in style they were accostomed to?

 

[vertex11]

For children with special education needs (let alone someone as severely handicapped as Adam) money is not the answer. The fact that Peter effectively left the family as early as 2001, means that Nancy had to do everything by herself. No matter how hard she tried, that is a huge, huge deficit. Adam didn’t need what money bought. He needed a loving, nurturing, nuclear family. And it sounds like he didn’t have that.

In the Frontline show, there is talk of an IEP for Adam, Nancy being involved with the school to insure Adam was getting help, but nothing – absolutely nothing, relating to Peter being involved. As far as I can tell, Peter got with Adam on weekends (but how often??). I would imagine Peter went on vacations with Adam and Ryan, but I don’t have any actual info that he did. I believe Peter was greatly troubled by his separation from his family – I believe he offered so much money to Nancy partly because he felt rather guilty about leaving her with Adam.

What any child needs, even mildly Special-Ed children, let along majorly troubled kids like Adam – is contact with loved ones. It sounds like Ryan was off to New York and New Jersey. Yes, Ryan deserved a life of his own – but no one (excepting Nancy and perhaps Peter) on Earth could get close to Adam like Ryan. And Ryan, as far as I can tell, was very distant. The thing about any Special-Ed situation, and especially with the Lanzas, is that it is the family (not just Adam) that needs to learn how best to deal with a family member with disability. Nancy needed to learn how best to help Adam. Peter needed to learn how best to help Adam. Ryan needed to learn how best even he could help Adam (perhaps Ryan’s help would have been the most beneficial of all). I do not believe any of them ever realized how their own decisions were contributing to Adam’s malady.

It goes without saying that Nancy made endless mistakes in how she “helped” Adam. But I believe Ryan and Peter also made big mistakes too. With someone as dysfunctional as Adam, it is those closest to the disabled who can be the best help. But Peter and Ryan seemed to have withdrawn from the troubles on Yoganada Street.

The fact that Nancy was interested in Adam going to college in Washington State – that seems crazy to me. He was already isolated from his Dad and his brother in Newtown – and she seems to think that Washington State would somehow be a better fit? That tells me that she may have “given up” on her former husband and her older son – in terms of helping Adam. She wanted to do it herself. She wanted Adam to be, in some fashion, “normal”. Finish college. Perhaps get a job. Neither of those things is necessarily wrong, but it seems “a bridge too far” for someone with Adam’s diagnosis. Adam needed to work near home, part time. Adam needed as many relatives near him as he could get. He needed, frankly, a massive commitment from his Mom, Dad, and brother. Nothing is more difficult, time-consuming, frustrating, than having to spend so much of your “own” life trying to help a disturbed family member. And yet only such a commitment can really help someone like Adam. Nancy paid with her life for her mistakes. But guns was only one of her mistakes. And Peter and Ryan made huge mistakes as well. You don’t get to pick your family. I frankly believe that had Peter and Ryan been closer to Adam, they also would have gotten much out of the relationship. Mental illness requires special attention from family members. And every case is unique.

 

[jjenny]

Well, NL dedicated her life to caring for him. And he killed her. So I am not all that sympathetic to the argument that the rest of the family should have dedicated their lives to care for him. What is it do you think they could have possibly gotten out of the relationship?
If they were in that house, they could have ended up dead as well.

 

[Tennlyn]

For children with special education needs (let alone someone as severely handicapped as Adam) money is not the answer. The fact that Peter effectively left the family as early as 2001, means that Nancy had to do everything by herself. No matter how hard she tried, that is a huge, huge deficit. Adam didn’t need what money bought. He needed a loving, nurturing, nuclear family. And it sounds like he didn’t have that.

In the Frontline show, there is talk of an IEP for Adam, Nancy being involved with the school to insure Adam was getting help, but nothing – absolutely nothing, relating to Peter being involved. As far as I can tell, Peter got with Adam on weekends (but how often??). I would imagine Peter went on vacations with Adam and Ryan, but I don’t have any actual info that he did. I believe Peter was greatly troubled by his separation from his family – I believe he offered so much money to Nancy partly because he felt rather guilty about leaving her with Adam.

What any child needs, even mildly Special-Ed children, let along majorly troubled kids like Adam – is contact with loved ones. It sounds like Ryan was off to New York and New Jersey. Yes, Ryan deserved a life of his own – but no one (excepting Nancy and perhaps Peter) on Earth could get close to Adam like Ryan. And Ryan, as far as I can tell, was very distant. The thing about any Special-Ed situation, and especially with the Lanzas, is that it is the family (not just Adam) that needs to learn how best to deal with a family member with disability. Nancy needed to learn how best to help Adam. Peter needed to learn how best to help Adam. Ryan needed to learn how best even he could help Adam (perhaps Ryan’s help would have been the most beneficial of all). I do not believe any of them ever realized how their own decisions were contributing to Adam’s malady.

It goes without saying that Nancy made endless mistakes in how she “helped” Adam. But I believe Ryan and Peter also made big mistakes too. With someone as dysfunctional as Adam, it is those closest to the disabled who can be the best help. But Peter and Ryan seemed to have withdrawn from the troubles on Yoganada Street.

The fact that Nancy was interested in Adam going to college in Washington State – that seems crazy to me. He was already isolated from his Dad and his brother in Newtown – and she seems to think that Washington State would somehow be a better fit? That tells me that she may have “given up” on her former husband and her older son – in terms of helping Adam. She wanted to do it herself. She wanted Adam to be, in some fashion, “normal”. Finish college. Perhaps get a job. Neither of those things is necessarily wrong, but it seems “a bridge too far” for someone with Adam’s diagnosis. Adam needed to work near home, part time. Adam needed as many relatives near him as he could get. He needed, frankly, a massive commitment from his Mom, Dad, and brother. Nothing is more difficult, time-consuming, frustrating, than having to spend so much of your “own” life trying to help a disturbed family member. And yet only such a commitment can really help someone like Adam. Nancy paid with her life for her mistakes. But guns was only one of her mistakes. And Peter and Ryan made huge mistakes as well. You don’t get to pick your family. I frankly believe that had Peter and Ryan been closer to Adam, they also would have gotten much out of the relationship. Mental illness requires special attention from family members. And every case is unique.

I understand what your saying, but I also wonder if something else may be at play here. It seems to me that every time others were making progress with Adam, Nancy pulled him out of that situation. As though, she thought she was the only one who could or should be able to help Adam.

I wonder if she was the same way with Peter & Ryan...driving them away from Adam by insisting she knew best, etc. Basically thwarting any attempt by them to be a part of Adam's life. You know, one of those people who insist that everything be done their way or not at all. She seems to have been very controlling, IMO.

 

[time]

I understand what your saying, but I also wonder if something else may be at play here. It seems to me that every time others were making progress with Adam, Nancy pulled him out of that situation. As though, she thought she was the only one who could or should be able to help Adam.

I wonder if she was the same way with Peter & Ryan...driving them away from Adam by insisting she knew best, etc. Basically thwarting any attempt by them to be a part of Adam's life. You know, one of those people who insist that everything be done their way or not at all. She seems to have been very controlling, IMO.

Thank you ... I was just getting ready to post some very similar thoughts. I think somewhere Peter Lanza said he was not told about problems around the time of the Tech Club stuff ending - or something of that sort.

 

[time]

Well, NL dedicated her life to caring for him. And he killed her. So I am not all that sympathetic to the argument that the rest of the family should have dedicated their lives to care for him. What is it do you think they could have possibly gotten out of the relationship?
If they were in that house, they could have ended up dead as well.

Early on when the conditions of their divorce came up, I distinctly got the idea that NL had made it her life's goal to care for AL. It seemed odd to me that indicated she knew that AL was going to never going to be independent. Maybe I read too much into that, but it conflicts with the idea that she was trying to make him independent as does a lot of other stuff. What perplexes me is that NL had the means to move ... to get AL out of the basement and not abandon him, get him closer to family maybe. Yes, he wouldn't have liked the change, but it would be minor compared to sending him off to 'school' or some special place where he would not live with her at all. At least as a transition, it makes sense.

 

[jjenny]

Early on when the conditions of their divorce came up, I distinctly got the idea that NL had made it her life's goal to care for AL. It seemed odd to me that indicated she knew that AL was going to never going to be independent. Maybe I read too much into that, but it conflicts with the idea that she was trying to make him independent as does a lot of other stuff. What perplexes me is that NL had the means to move ... to get AL out of the basement and not abandon him, get him closer to family maybe. Yes, he wouldn't have liked the change, but it would be minor compared to sending him off to 'school' or some special place where he would not live with her at all. At least as a transition, it makes sense.

She was going to move with him to whatever place he was going to go to school.
So I am not sure what their living arrangements were going to be. He could have still been living with her.
PBS story claimed he was going to study history. Which I find bizarre and not believable. What was he going to do with a history degree? He clearly would not be able to teach.
But nonetheless, it appears she was trying to have him admitted into college, not send into a special facility.

 

[GreenTeam]

From my perspective as a parent with an older, more popular "normal" child and a younger, more reserved child, it might be a little of both. My daughter is very outgoing and even from a young age she's always made friends easily. Her birthday parties would include many friends from school, girl scouts, etc. and she is always on the go, having friends over or going over to her friends' houses. Meanwhile my son is very quiet and introverted. He'll be 13 this year and he's had maybe two friends in his entire life. It breaks my heart. He has been diagnosed with Asperger's and if he had his way, he'd play video games all day. He's pretty awkward in most social situations unless he feels comfortable. 9 times out of 10 if you try and joke with him, he doesn't get it. When I talk to family and friends who know both of my kids, they pretty much know what to expect with my daughter so I guess in a way I kind of do the same thing NL did - drop little comments like 26 kids coming to his party even though in the years I did have birthday parties for him, none of the people who RSVP'd ever showed up. But yeah I do try and play up as many positive things as I can especially when I have countless positive stories about my daughter and her extracurricular activities.

I think that is why this story has just really captured my attention. After it happened my husband even asked me if I ever worry that our son could do something like AL. Of course I think there is no way he could ever do something like that but then I wonder if NL thought the same thing.

I can sympathize with your son's difficulties. I am married to an Aspie. Is your son getting some help and guidance for Asperger's from a counselor or other source? I think that can be very helpful for Aspies to understand themselves better, and to learn some ways to navigate the world and interact with people a bit easier. The teen years will likely be challenging for him, and support will be essential. My hubby still gets emotional when talking about his jr. high and high school years, with the teasing and not fitting in. Best wishes to you and your son! :seeya:

 

[GreenTeam]

. . . .

The more I think about it, I am convinced that NL is the one that instigated the withdrawal of AL from his father and RL and society. She was cutting herself off from those closest to her the same time that AL disappears off the face of the earth. From her emails she comes across as someone who could be manipulative. It would explain AL's anger towards her - she discourages AL from communicating with his father, brother, and uncle, she cuts off contact with her brother and LaFontaine. She continued to go on her trips and left AL alone in that house. That might even explain why he immersed himself in video games if his mother was no longer letting him communicate with others. I wonder if her condition was worsening. She mentioned having a lesion on her brain in one of her emails to LaFontaine. Maybe it was affecting her mental health? Since AL shot her four times in the face at close range I am assuming there was nothing left of her brain for them to determine this. (That sounds so harsh but I am unsure of how else to word it. )

However nothing I read gives any explanation as to why AL would go to the school.

Respectfully snipped by me.

This is a very interesting insight, and a different way to look at things that I find fascinating. What if it was NL who cut off contact between AL and the family? And yes, what if her health condition affected her thinking?

I would think that his father and brother could explain how it all came about. I hope we find out soon.

 

[FragileSugar]

I can sympathize with your son's difficulties. I am married to an Aspie. Is your son getting some help and guidance for Asperger's from a counselor or other source? I think that can be very helpful for Aspies to understand themselves better, and to learn some ways to navigate the world and interact with people a bit easier. The teen years will likely be challenging for him, and support will be essential. My hubby still gets emotional when talking about his jr. high and high school years, with the teasing and not fitting in. Best wishes to you and your son! :seeya:

Thank you GreenTeam. Yes my son goes to counseling (he loves it) and his guidance counselor at his middle school has been so helpful. My husband is active duty military and we're lucky that our insurance pays for my son to see a counselor but I will admit that if our insurance didn't cover it, I have no idea how we'd be able to afford it. That is one thing I find so surprising in the story of NL and AL: NL could have sought treatment and counseling for AL from top notch specialists, sent him to schools that focus on helping children with ASD, etc. but for whatever reason it seems like she didn't.

I know there were reports that AL was on medication and that NL had taken him to see specialists but I wonder to what extent. I'm sure HIPPA is preventing any specialist that was treating or had treated AL from speaking out but it sure would be nice to know if he was being treated at all. I can totally understand the frustration of the families of the victims at being told that AL's privacy after death is worth more than their right to know anything about if he was being treated. What if AL was seeing a counselor and complained about the things that bothered him - NL, his dreams of being a cop and being told not to pursue it, etc.? What if there were warning signs that someone other than NL ignored? How are we supposed to fix a broken system when we aren't allowed to know what is going on? :banghead:

 

[GreenTeam]

That's awesome that your son loves his counselor! I bet that is really helpful to him. My hubby didn't even find out he had it til a couple of years ago. It would have been easier for him if he had known when he was young.

I do wish we could hear about any disorders or treatment that AL received. I think we could all learn from this, if we had the information. That's true, NL could afford any care or specialists, and I wonder if she provided treatment for AL or not.

 

[FragileSugar]

From the Chase Kowalski Memorial Fund Facebook page:

Stephen and Chase shared a special bond and love for Auto Racing. You can tell by the look on their faces that this was a special moment for both of them as Chase drove around the race track at Disney. With the start of the NASCAR season this weekend in Daytona, we find it bitter sweet to reflect back on these memories. Stephen has had a passion for racing since he was a boy not much younger than Chase. We are grateful for all the special moments that Stephen shared with Chase driving carts, racing quads around the yard and watching all forms of racing together. We are also sad that Stephen will not be able to share all of his “Father Son” dreams with Chase beyond the 7 years we absolutely treasured. As we move forward on our journey, it is very evident that each month will remind us of fond memories ... the start of the racing season, the start of Spring and the joy of Easter ... Fishing season, baseball season,hikes,camping and so much more.

We greatly appreciate they gesture by NASCAR and Michael Waltrip to setup the #26 car for the Daytona 500 in support of the Sandy Hook community. We wish Michael Waltrip the best ... But as you know we think it would be wonderful if #48 Jimmie Johnson won the Daytona 500 as a tribute to Chase ... Race4Chase!

 

[CocoChanel]

..........That is one thing I find so surprising in the story of NL and AL: NL could have sought treatment and counseling for AL from top notch specialists, sent him to schools that focus on helping children with ASD, etc. but for whatever reason it seems like she didn't.

I know there were reports that AL was on medication and that NL had taken him to see specialists but I wonder to what extent. I'm sure HIPPA is preventing any specialist that was treating or had treated AL from speaking out but it sure would be nice to know if he was being treated at all. I can totally understand the frustration of the families of the victims at being told that AL's privacy after death is worth more than their right to know anything about if he was being treated. What if AL was seeing a counselor and complained about the things that bothered him - NL, his dreams of being a cop and being told not to pursue it, etc.? What if there were warning signs that someone other than NL ignored? How are we supposed to fix a broken system when we aren't allowed to know what is going on? :banghead:

Snipped respectfully by me.
My opinion is that it is very likely that NL sought counseling and treatment of some kind for her son. As a person of means and education, I believe it would have been the course she would have naturally taken, in an effort to help if mot cure her increasingly troubled child.

No doubt LE does know the who, what, where etc. of mental health and service providers that have had any contact with AL. It would be uncovered in the investigation into the family's lives. Yes, I agree that victims deserve to know about this kind of info to help them try to make sense of a senseless tragedy. Perhaps we as the public need that info too to educate society as a whole about this hidden area.

AND I cannot imagine the distress of any mental health professional who ever was involved with AL. How difficult it must be to examine yourself, your skills, your instincts in the aftermath, with the ever-present question 'what more could I have done'? AND how fearful it would be to consider the public's scrutiny and, in some cases, rage about you if they knew your name.

The State of Connecticut laws regarding mental health professionals state that the provider is PERMITTED to disclose confidential patient information if in their profession judgement, and in good faith, they believe their is an imminent risk of personal injury to the patient or others. Some states have laws that make it a MANDATORY duty to warn, or duty to protect. All states have the mandatory provision for child abuse. New York just changed their mental health duty to warn law to MANDATORY in January, perhaps as a result of the recent mass shootings. at the link below there a state by state rundown, with details. I did a search of this thread and didn't see it mentioned, though I admit I did not search all 10 threads before this one #11. If it is a repeat, I apologize.

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/mental-health-professionals-duty-to-warn.aspx

 

[i.b.nora]

"Champion told the chief that he hadn't seen his 20-year-old nephew in about eight years and last visited with his sister, Nancy Lanza, at a wedding last summer. The officer's mother, Dorothy Hanson, returned to Kingston from Florida on Saturday."

________________________

The above is a quote from an article about Nancy's Kingston family from December 15, 2012.

So, it seems that the brother James had not seen Adam since he was about 12 and he had last visited with his sister Nancy at a wedding in the Summer of 2012.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20121215/NEWS03/121219389

 

[Donjeta]

She was going to move with him to whatever place he was going to go to school.
So I am not sure what their living arrangements were going to be. He could have still been living with her.
PBS story claimed he was going to study history. Which I find bizarre and not believable. What was he going to do with a history degree? He clearly would not be able to teach.
But nonetheless, it appears she was trying to have him admitted into college, not send into a special facility.

I think with AL's difficulties the choice of a degree was a somewhat different process than usual and the possibility of making a productive career out of it probably wasn't such a great factor if it was becoming evident that he wasn't going to make a productive career out of anything. Then it would be more a matter of what he was interested in and what he might be persuaded to get out of the house for.

I've never studied history but a friend did and from what I understand you can do a lot of the studying just reading books and writing essays in solitude and it may require less personal interaction than some other fields of study.

 

[Xavier]

I wonder how often Nancy checked out her son's bedroom/basement?

AL was said to have blacked out the windows, was always completely dark, the only light was the computer screen

There's no way most parents I know would allow their son to live that way

But, I can't judge her, since no one really know what efforts she made for AL

Al's hero was Brevik, the psycho who killed 69 at a summer camp somewhere in Scandanavia

And from CT LE, AL was obsessed with Brevik for quite along time...Gotta think the Sandy hook crime was a crime in progress for a long time

 

[i.b.nora]

There isn't an ounce of credible evidence that Adam Lanza's hero was Anders Breivik.

From NBC: Police: 'Mere speculation' that Adam Lanza was motivated by obsession with other mass killers

"Reports that Sandy Hook school shooter Adam Lanza aspired to one-up Norwegian mass killer Anders Breivik are “mere speculation” given the ongoing nature of the investigation, said Connecticut State Police spokesman Lt. Paul Vance."

and

"CBS News has appended an editor’s note to the online version of its story saying that after the piece ran Vance “told CBS News that the investigation into the motive for the Newtown shooting has not been completed and therefore any statements about the shooter’s intent are mere speculation.”"