Could Bush Have Done More

[TexMex]

In other words, let's not bring up anything the President did right because that's not what this thread wants to fixate upon.

Tex and Billy, I have Advil for when you need it.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Make mine a double KK.

Somehow asking if somebody applauds Bush for sending the USCG and Army Corps in within hours is wrong. The thread IS about Bush and his response to Katrina, verdad?

 

[KrazyKollector]

My "attack" as you so lamely put it is because I have lived in New Orleans and saw this disaster getting ready to happen 20 years ago. I watched the local government pretty much insure it would happen through corruption, graft, ineptitude, and indifference. I left because I did not feel safe in that city, be the threat hurricanes or thugs. You seem pretty much intent on blaming one person for a disaster that had hundreds of architechs, stretching back to the time of FDR. Your frame of reference is so narrow its tunnel vision.

And if you think there's any difference between Bush, Clinton, Gore, or whoever the next candidate may be, you live in a dream world. They're interchangeable. You can pop off their heads and switch them around like barbie dolls and you pretty much get the same performance.

LOL--I got an image of one of those books where you can turn each third of the page to make different people and bodies etc.

I just think it's sad that there wasn't a better plan. I am so sad that there weren't more drills and following the plan they had.
I'm sad that so many died from something we all knew was going to happen.

I hope heads will roll but more importantly, I hope this makes it clear that every city and every state needs a disaster plan. We owe that, at the very least, to the people who died.

 

[Pepper]

BIlly I am so impressed with your information I'm so glad you joined this discussion. I feel like the things i've been reading and seeing are all falling into place. thanks

I'll second that!

 

[JBean]

LOL--I got an image of one of those books where you can turn each third of the page to make different people and bodies etc.

I just think it's sad that there wasn't a better plan. I am so sad that there weren't more drills and following the plan they had.
I'm sad that so many died from something we all knew was going to happen.

I hope heads will roll but more importantly, I hope this makes it clear that every city and every state needs a disaster plan. We owe that, at the very least, to the people who died.

I said before that prior to this i ASSumed my city /state had a good plan for my backside when we have our big EQ. But I'm finding that they donlt necessarily. this as all been eye opeing to me in terms of taking my own personal repsonsibility to KNOW to a new level.

 

[concernedperson]

I know that I am just not a believer in what anyone tells me right now. I am looking at ways that protect my family. If you say white I might just question the grey.The great institution of the US is not looming on my head, the people are but the government isn't something to be proud of right now.

I am sorry that we have become bullies with far reaching attitudes. Especially when we let our own people die days after a major storm. There is no excuse for this, period. Whether it was federal or state and who will ultimately accept the justice, it wasn't right.I stand behind this as the ultimate of human abuse, a country with a multitude of resources and manpower and was impotent to react is just disgusting. Screw the beaurocracy. Just be people dammit.

 

[less0305]

Wow, you go away for a few hours and ... well, just WOW.

Billy - I've read your post and you just seem to make so much sense and having actually lived there you would know more than many!! Thanks for your perspective. By the way, I've been called uninformed, callous, and insensitive (in those very words) because I didn't believe as some others here did. But that's okay....I still have my own thoughts and beliefs. So, hang in there!

 

[KrazyKollector]

I'll second that!

I third it!
It's good hearing from someone with an inside track.

 

[sue1017]

In other words, let's not bring up anything the President did right because that's not what this thread wants to fixate upon.

Tex and Billy, I have Advil for when you need it.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I have been reading this thread all day. Trying my best to stay away b/c I don't play fair when it comes to politics.

But this comment I had reply to b/c it had me LMFAOROTF.

S

 

[Melissa Marshall]

I have been reading this thread all day. Trying my best to stay away b/c I don't play fair when it comes to politics.

But this comment I had reply to b/c it had me LMFAOROTF.

S

I have as well. I also applaud you BillyGG. Thanks for the insider information and all of your comments. And Tex I applaud Bush for sending in the USGC and The Army Corp but some people are to driven to see that.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Wow, you go away for a few hours and ... well, just WOW.

Billy - I've read your post and you just seem to make so much sense and having actually lived there you would know more than many!! Thanks for your perspective. By the way, I've been called uninformed, callous, and insensitive (in those very words) because I didn't believe as some others here did. But that's okay....I still have my own thoughts and beliefs. So, hang in there!

If you live in that area, none of this is news. There have even been treatsies and essays written on the city's rather schizoid personality. One face is that of the care-free party animal, the others is that of the murderous thugs. Racism, poverty,reverse-racism, classism, ignorance, indifference, sloth, and greed all had a hand in making the dangerous stew the nation at large saw for the first time last week on their TVs, but which the natives of NO were all too aware of.
Most people think of/thought of New Orleans as a party city. Some place to go to have a good time and drink and enjoy themselves. Most rarely stepped outside the French Quarter. And few were aware of its crime rates, unless they happned to get mugged while visiting. While I lived there it was both hte Rape Capital and Murder Capital of the US. Which was rather sobering, given its relatively small population, compared to say Dallas or Atlanta or NYC. The very ugly truth behind the carnival mask must be a serious shock for most Americans, not to mention visitors from abroad.

 

[Liz]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/n...&en=905e7a862e1c0023&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Published September 9, 2005

WASHINGTON, Sept. 8 - As New Orleans descended into chaos last week and Louisiana's governor asked for 40,000 soldiers, President Bush's senior advisers debated whether the president should speed the arrival of active-duty troops by seizing control of the hurricane relief mission from the governor.

>>> continued at link

 

[less0305]

One face is that of the care-free party animal. Most people think of/thought of New Orleans as a party city. Some place to go to have a good time and drink and enjoy themselves.

Billy - I only cut your post to save some space and to also just ask this specific question:

When the Mayor was questioned day before yesterday about the "mandatory" vacations he was sending the police officers on (many of which said they didn't want to leave their duties right now) and that would those officers be better utilized right now while it was still rescue operations - the Mayor said, and I quote, "This is a party city. Get over it!"

Do you have any idea - any clue what he could possible mean by that? What kind of a response what that? It absolutely floored me. I don't understand that mentality. I work for a municipality which went through two natural disasters, with loss of life I might add, and at no time during the immediacy of it would our Mayor have thought to send officers on mandatory 5 day vacations. Yes, it was horrendous. Yes, they need rest and food and sustinence. And yes, they need some peer counseling and maybe actual professional counseling. But I didn't understand what the "party city" part had to do with that.

 

[kgeaux]

If you live in that area, none of this is news. There have even been treatsies and essays written on the city's rather schizoid personality. One face is that of the care-free party animal, the others is that of the murderous thugs. Racism, poverty,reverse-racism, classism, ignorance, indifference, sloth, and greed all had a hand in making the dangerous stew the nation at large saw for the first time last week on their TVs, but which the natives of NO were all too aware of.
Most people think of/thought of New Orleans as a party city. Some place to go to have a good time and drink and enjoy themselves. Most rarely stepped outside the French Quarter. And few were aware of its crime rates, unless they happned to get mugged while visiting. While I lived there it was both hte Rape Capital and Murder Capital of the US. Which was rather sobering, given its relatively small population, compared to say Dallas or Atlanta or NYC. The very ugly truth behind the carnival mask must be a serious shock for most Americans, not to mention visitors from abroad.

I know this is off topic for the thread, but I have to reply. I'm in Lafayette, and people are beginning to freak out a little about Mardi Gras......we're hoping our family friendly mardi gras, the 2nd largest Mardi Gras in the USA, does not get degraded down into the decadent New Orleans type Mardi Gras.

Speaking of which, a few gays/transvestites showed up and had their "Decadence Parade" in our downtown the other day....nobody too pleased about that. New Orleans may have been known as sin city, but Lafayette is not and does not want to be.

 

[kgeaux]

Billy - I only cut your post to save some space and to also just ask this specific question:

When the Mayor was questioned day before yesterday about the "mandatory" vacations he was sending the police officers on (many of which said they didn't want to leave their duties right now) and that would those officers be better utilized right now while it was still rescue operations - the Mayor said, and I quote, "This is a party city. Get over it!"

Do you have any idea - any clue what he could possible mean by that? What kind of a response what that? It absolutely floored me. I don't understand that mentality. I work for a municipality which went through two natural disasters, with loss of life I might add, and at no time during the immediacy of it would our Mayor have thought to send officers on mandatory 5 day vacations. Yes, it was horrendous. Yes, they need rest and food and sustinence. And yes, they need some peer counseling and maybe actual professional counseling. But I didn't understand what the "party city" part had to do with that.

Les, he was sending them to Las Vegas....his comment was in answer to a question about whether it was wise to send them to that type of place to wind down. Las Vegas, truly, aint going to be nothin after what those cops are used to!

 

[less0305]

kgeaux.....Thanks. I didn't reallly understand at first, but now that makes sense.

 

[JBean]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/national/nationalspecial/09military.html?hp&ex=1126324800&en=905e7a862e1c0023&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Published September 9, 2005

WASHINGTON, Sept. 8 - As New Orleans descended into chaos last week and Louisiana's governor asked for 40,000 soldiers, President Bush's senior advisers debated whether the president should speed the arrival of active-duty troops by seizing control of the hurricane relief mission from the governor.

>>> continued at link

Thanks Liz. That was a telling article.

 

[kgeaux]

Great link, Liz.

There's so much I'd like to copy and paste here! But I'll make do with this:

Aides to Ms. Blanco said she was prepared to accept the deployment of active-duty military officials in her state. But she and other state officials balked at giving up control of the Guard as Justice Department officials said would have been required by the Insurrection Act if those combat troops were to be sent in before order was restored.

and


On the issue of whether the military could be deployed without the invitation of state officials, the Office of Legal Counsel, the unit within the Justice Department that provides legal advice to federal agencies, concluded that the federal government had authority to move in even over the objection of local officials.

This act was last invoked in 1992 for the Los Angeles riots, but at the request of Gov. Pete Wilson of California, and has not been invoked over a governor's objections since the civil rights era - and before that, to the time of the Civil War, administration officials said. Bush administration, Pentagon and senior military officials warned that such an extreme measure would have serious legal and political implications.

Sums it up pretty nicely. She put on a power play. The Justice Department "concluded" to me means it took some time and debate to reach the conclusion; that explains to me why action could not be taken immediately to send in federalized troops. And the Bush administration was warned that this would have serious "legal & political implications." Legal there is important to me, cuz it means they weren't just looking out for their careers, they didn't want to cross any legal barriers.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Very interesting article, and explained the situation pretty well, IMO. If I am reading it correctly, Bush STILL needs the Governor's approval, or "surrendering control" before forces can come into a State to perform law enforcement duties (versus relief missions). And "decision makers in Washington felt certain that Ms Blanco would have resisted surrendering control, as Bush administration officials would have been required to deploy active-duty forces before law and order had been re-established." It then points out that they could not have gone into NO on Wednesday and Thursday without confronting law-and-order challenges.

Well, I'm sure that the administration had very good reasons to have strong feelings that she would be resisting. I would doubt they would have come to that conclusion before having strong dialogue and interactions with her already, where she was showing her resistance and intentions.

And, the interesting quotes from Blanco near the end of the article. "I need everything you have got," but then continues to resist.

So, could Bush have done more? He needed a Governor that was willing to give up certain control before he could really direct forces in there, under that situation, and she was not willing to do so at that time.

 

[JBean]

It just further confirms what we have been saying all along. All roads lead back to the Governor. No matter where we look or from what angle we do it, it's all about a powerful,prepared Governor.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

It just further confirms what we have been saying all along. All roads lead back to the Governor. No matter where we look or from what angle we do it, it's all about a powerful,prepared Governor.

It sure has opened my eyes up more about my responsibility when voting for the Governor. But heck, this whole thing has opened up my eyes about what my local City government is doing, as well. :doh: