Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #44

[Nikynoo]

Yes, of course. Atty. P. was heading down this long trail with his multiple disparaging remarks about Dr. Gill and claiming that absent a body there was no proof that JFd is dead. We have seen in other cases that this logic is faulty. LE has found no evidence to suggest that JFd is living as they stated in AW3.

IDK. I don't think Dr. Gill would have gone out on the record to make the claim he did absent strong evidence as to blood loss. The garage scene was indeed bloody as was the JFd Suburban.

The use of the term 'concrete proof' is tricky too IMO as I'm not of the belief that 'concrete proof' has to include a body. We have seen multiple cases play out with convictions where the body is absent. What concrete proof is meant by the OP here? Seems like we might be on a snipe hunt for a body that was burnt or liquified too or simply disposed of in black plastic bags in multiple locations by Fd and MT.

So much of the information here isn't yet disclosed too and that makes assessment of this issue largely theoretical too. Dr Gill IMO had access to much more information that we on WS have in AW1-3 and I don't think he would risk his reputation making the statement he did without a lot of forensic investigation and testing.

I suppose we will have to wait for trial or more disclosure by the State but I'm curious where the OP sees that JFd might still be amongst the living here based on the very limited info in AW1-3.

MOO

The OP stated she didn't think Jennfier was alive, the opposite in fact. What the OP was saying was (i think), that the evidence provided by LE was not strong enough (in the OPs opinion) to show that Jennifer was dead (and the prosecution would need to prove that she is dead, not that she is alive).

 

[afitzy]

The OP stated she didn't think Jennfier was alive, the opposite in fact. What the OP was saying was (i think), that the evidence provided by LE was not strong enough (in the OPs opinion) to show that Jennifer was dead (and the prosecution would need to prove that she is dead, not that she is alive).

Ok. Lots of people and Lots of POV. That is what keeps it all interesting here IMO.

I was hoping for a very specific analysis that perhaps could counter the statement of Dr Gill, but that wasn't forthcoming.

Its ok, we just keep trying to process the information as it becomes available. Information in this case has come in drips and drabs and is clearly incomplete given the ongoing nature of the investigation.

Guess we just need to stay tuned and keep on rolling.....

MOO

 

[Alkali13]

Me too, I am leaning towards disposal near her home, for the simple reason that it would have been too risky to have a body in an (unreliable?) truck for 1.5 hours.

This. We all know FD seemed to have a need for control. I doubt he would've wanted to make that drive, in a truck he didn't own, with a body in the back or passenger seat. What if he was pulled over?

The window of time FD's movements are seemingly unaccounted for in NC that morning (between JFD's cell arriving on Lapham and the Tacoma being seen on the Merritt ~40 minutes later) seems like a plausible window for disposal, but I am still confused by JFD's cell phone being shut off right before the Tacoma is seen again.

If FD went to Lapham with the Suburban and put JFD's cell in the car (where it was later found), then left to dispose of JFD's body, why return to shut the phone off after?

 

[afitzy]

• 
  With loss of top defendant, focus to shift in Dulos case

MOO

Yellow is definitely her color![/QUOTE]
Yes, YELLOW IS THE NEW BLACK!

MOO

 

[SkylarSid]

Also, ten rolls of paper towels were missing from the pantry according to JD's nanny, who had purchased a full package of 12 and placed it in the pantry the day prior to JD's disappearance. Also, the paper towel dispenser in the kitchen was empty.

I find that interesting. The person who attacked Jennifer first used the paper towels on the dispenser, then when that was used up, they grabbed individual rolls of paper towels from the full package of 12 - one or two at a time rather than grabbing the full package at once. And they took the soiled paper towels with them.

That implies they spent time cleaning up after the attack, rather than simply attacked JD and immobilized her with the zip-ties, threw her in the back of her own Suburban, and threw the 12-pack of paper towels in with her. Police indicated in the AW that there was evidence that someone had attempted to clean up.

So, enough blood was spilled to require ten rolls of paper towels, plus whatever had remained on the roll on the dispenser in the kitchen to sop it all up. Seems like a lot of blood loss, more than the attacker had expected or was prepared for.

Also, JD didn't use those paper towels to clean up after herself. So no revenge suicide.

Not to mention the towel, and pillows, and God knows what else.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Palmetto Surety Bond Package Information-Source of info: 50 page bond package posted by Marissa Alter:

-Information in the package wasn't clear and complete as Patrick McKenna didn't fill out a complete application. The amounts contributed by Patrick McKenna and GV are redacted or not clear on the forms. Unclear whether there are any liens on 80MS, 84MS or 585DC per the paperwork. We had known that Sturbridge and 4Jx were both subject to foreclosure.

$6.0 million Fd Bond info:

Fd/FORE - Properties and Cash:

• 80MS
• 84MS
• 585 DC
• Sturbridge, NC (in foreclosure)
• 4Jx, Farmington (in foreclosure)
• $1,000 cash drawn on People's Bank Checking Acct

Palmetto Capital and Surplus = $4.61 million a/o 2018 per email of MACasey to Atty Colangelo which would represent max. allowable bond of $466,000. The Fd bond was $6.0 million.

AC ($147,000 paid - $272,150 to be paid in monthly instalments through 4/9/21). AC listed personal assets of $650,000 and personal liabilities of $170,000 = personal net worth $480,000.

Patrick James McKenna / Atty. P. PI (unknown contribution to bond). Mr. McKenna did not fill out the complete application for the bond and so it did not include his personal net worth as is required.

GV put up IRA account (unknown contribution to bond). GV listed personal assets of $108,000 and personal liabilities of $11,000 = personal net worth $97,000.

MOO

But if he didn’t fill out the application completely, then how did they get the money?

 

[annekris]

I've been reading through thread after thread after thread and honestly some of the opinions and speculations are reaching and irrelevant IMOO. Could someone please just try and give me concrete evidence that JD is dead? not hearsay, not DNA on a bag? I think we forget that our emotions get the better of us and we are forgetting that the client/suspect/ FD is presumed innocent. They haven't found a body yet, and as far as I know, from the evidence they collected there isn't evidence of enough blood being lost belonging to JD to concretely say she should be presumed dead. Do I think she's dead? Yes. Does that matter? No. Do I think FD probably did it? Yes. Does that matter? NO!... It doesn't matter if they were going through a divorce, it doesn't matter if they got into arguments( millions upon millions of people go through the same and worse), and unfortunately any suspicious behavior and behaviors in the past are not proof beyond a reasonable doubt that JD was murdered let alone is deceased. I think all of the brilliant minds here, we would be more helpful to the investigation by using our skills to find out where she is, dead or alive, and then you work outward from there. I think if JD is a victim, than we owe it to her to find her and find out what actually happened. JUST A THOUGHT....also FD isn't on trial for murder, correct? Sorry to come off this way, just it gets a little frustrating to hear over and over again that someone is a lying ******* and murdered his wife when that is a big accusation that there is no concrete proof of... I would keep in mind that THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION HAS A GANG MENTALITY-STAY OBJECTIVE!

Three separate arrest warrants listing copious evidence pointing to a serious physical assault in her garage coupled w/JFd’s disappearance. I have not seen any evidence pointing to a credible alternate theory to explain JFds disappearance in May 2019.

 

[Alkali13]

Yes, of course. Atty. P. was heading down this long trail with his multiple disparaging remarks about Dr. Gill and claiming that absent a body there was no proof that JFd is dead. We have seen in other cases that this logic is faulty. LE has found no evidence to suggest that JFd is living as they stated in AW3.

IDK. I don't think Dr. Gill would have gone out on the record to make the claim he did absent strong evidence as to blood loss. The garage scene was indeed bloody as was the JFd Suburban. Someone here on prior thread looked at the pickup volume of the 10 rolls of paper towels which were used to clean up the scene and even though doing a conversion from water pickup to blood pickup is tricky, there was significant blood loss in the Welles garage. My guess is that Dr. Gill had the precise math to do similar analysis and looked closely at the clean up effort and the clear pooling marks on the garage concrete floor.

The use of the term 'concrete proof' is tricky too IMO as I'm not of the belief that 'concrete proof' has to include a body. We have seen multiple cases play out with convictions where the body is absent. What concrete proof is meant by the OP here? Seems like we might be on a snipe hunt for a body that was burnt or liquified too or simply disposed of in black plastic bags in multiple locations by Fd and MT.

So much of the information here isn't yet disclosed too and that makes assessment of this issue largely theoretical too. Dr Gill IMO had access to much more information that we on WS have in AW1-3 and I don't think he would risk his reputation making the statement he did without a lot of forensic investigation and testing.

I suppose we will have to wait for trial or more disclosure by the State but I'm curious where the OP sees that JFd might still be amongst the living here based on the very limited info in AW1-3.

MOO

OP doesn't think JDF is amongst the living though; they clearly stated they believe JFD is dead.

I think OP's point is being misunderstood; they want more discussion based on evidence and fact. They want efforts here to be concentrated on figuring out where JFD is, dead or alive (although the majority of us, OP included, believe the unfortunate reality is that JFD, if found, will be dead).

As this case has progressed, it's impossible for members not to become emotionally invested and form strong opinions. Earlier in this case, discussion was much more evidence-based; as time has progressed, posts have shifted to becoming less about "facts" and more about guesses and opinions, which is natural when so much time has passed and only so much new evidence is presented to the public.

Or I'm completely wrong about OP's intentions, but that's how it read to me. MOO.

 

[dlharris2712]

MT hasn’t squealed yet?! Can you imagine throwing your whole life away....just to be replaced with a look alike?

Just desserts, if you ask me...lol! moo

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Because the bond company simply would not have the funds to pay the state of CT, so CT would lose.

Well perhaps the next time CT has a murderer on their hands, they’ll just lock ‘em up for safe keeping!!! No bail!

 

[BluesClues0]

I Could someone please just try and give me concrete evidence that JD is dead?

All I know about is that LE has said that there was enough blood loss to be inconsistent with life. And that is it. I'm not sure how they determined how much blood loss, whether all that blood loss was JDs, and how much blood loss is too much.

 

[enelram]

I think MT is in a world of hurt right now.
She and her family need to face the fact that she
just lost a lot of her leverage when FD died.
He didn't stick around to help her in her case,
instead he found another paramour to get 'enamored with. Now she has little leverage
to help frame FD.
She needs to get down on her knees and beg
for a plea deal. But it's probably too late for her.

 

[Herat]

DBM

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I've been reading through thread after thread after thread and honestly some of the opinions and speculations are reaching and irrelevant IMOO. Could someone please just try and give me concrete evidence that JD is dead? not hearsay, not DNA on a bag? I think we forget that our emotions get the better of us and we are forgetting that the client/suspect/ FD is presumed innocent. They haven't found a body yet, and as far as I know, from the evidence they collected there isn't evidence of enough blood being lost belonging to JD to concretely say she should be presumed dead. Do I think she's dead? Yes. Does that matter? No. Do I think FD probably did it? Yes. Does that matter? NO!... It doesn't matter if they were going through a divorce, it doesn't matter if they got into arguments( millions upon millions of people go through the same and worse), and unfortunately any suspicious behavior and behaviors in the past are not proof beyond a reasonable doubt that JD was murdered let alone is deceased. I think all of the brilliant minds here, we would be more helpful to the investigation by using our skills to find out where she is, dead or alive, and then you work outward from there. I think if JD is a victim, than we owe it to her to find her and find out what actually happened. JUST A THOUGHT....also FD isn't on trial for murder, correct? Sorry to come off this way, just it gets a little frustrating to hear over and over again that someone is a lying ******* and murdered his wife when that is a big accusation that there is no concrete proof of... I would keep in mind that THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION HAS A GANG MENTALITY-STAY OBJECTIVE!

Many murder cases are solved without a body.
Most criminal cases are won through circumstantial evidence, as most crimes, unfortunately aren’t photographed, videotaped or witnessed for proof positive.
Reasonable doubt is looking at what evidence they do have and using your common sense.
Buried bodies decompose eventually, unless of course if they are burnt to a crisp and scattered, or dissolved in acid,
submerged in concrete, or incinerated.
I think CT LE and the investigators did, and are still doing, a very good job trying to locate JD for the past 10 months.
All roads lead back to FD and circumstantial evidence, which by the way does include video!

 

[BellaVita]

I've been reading through thread after thread after thread and honestly some of the opinions and speculations are reaching and irrelevant IMOO. Could someone please just try and give me concrete evidence that JD is dead? not hearsay, not DNA on a bag? I think we forget that our emotions get the better of us and we are forgetting that the client/suspect/ FD is presumed innocent. They haven't found a body yet, and as far as I know, from the evidence they collected there isn't evidence of enough blood being lost belonging to JD to concretely say she should be presumed dead. Do I think she's dead? Yes. Does that matter? No. Do I think FD probably did it? Yes. Does that matter? NO!... It doesn't matter if they were going through a divorce, it doesn't matter if they got into arguments( millions upon millions of people go through the same and worse), and unfortunately any suspicious behavior and behaviors in the past are not proof beyond a reasonable doubt that JD was murdered let alone is deceased. I think all of the brilliant minds here, we would be more helpful to the investigation by using our skills to find out where she is, dead or alive, and then you work outward from there. I think if JD is a victim, than we owe it to her to find her and find out what actually happened. JUST A THOUGHT....also FD isn't on trial for murder, correct? Sorry to come off this way, just it gets a little frustrating to hear over and over again that someone is a lying ******* and murdered his wife when that is a big accusation that there is no concrete proof of... I would keep in mind that THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION HAS A GANG MENTALITY-STAY OBJECTIVE!

FD AW will get you started. There's no emotions in the AW. Pages 33 and 34 will explain why Jennifer is dead.
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-11ea-845d-bfd3124a7453/5e14e1a421b22.pdf.pdf

It's not just DNA on a bag. It's JD bloody t-shirt and bra dropped off on Albany Ave by her not-so-loving and now dead husband. That's concrete proof right there. Sorry you are frustrated that people are calling it as they see it when FD is rightfully called out for the demon that he was. That's not emotions speaking. It's just facts. And no, FD had no presumption of innocence with the public at large. That is reserved for jurors. Maybe if the courts had ganged up more on FD, Jennifer would still be alive. Most posters here have been following this case since the beginning. We are better informed than many media sources. We know this case inside and out like the backs of our hands. We know that FD killed Jennifer. I can't speak for every single one but I'll estimate 95% or greater. We understand the injustice and violence that FD committed. FD was a monster and yeah, those who want JUSTICE FOR JENNIFER do get emotional at times. But that's okay because we are not on a jury. IMO.

 

[SkylarSid]

And how are FD and MT going to flee if AC has been supplying the funds for FD to eat, heat this house, etc for what seems like 3 months?

If FD and MT fled, AC would still be out the $400K + CASH that she signed on the dotted line for, right? Kinda hard to ask her for a loan when you've done that.

You misread the post. FD could have fled with AC.

 

[MilanaCapricorn]

I Love this post! I too believe that we should try and locate Jennifer. @MilanaCapricorn do you have any thoughts where Jennifer could be located?

I think that if she is dead, which I do, I highly doubt that she was dismembered as suggested, or burned as suggested. I think she is probably buried, does anyone know if LE had searched any bodies of water in the area? If there is a timeline, what bodies of water, or abandoned or unused properties are within the distance that would be plausible? I'm not familiar with the area, but I tend to lean on what a person has access and time to do?

 

[Herat]

AND, if he was going to flee, who does FD flee with?

MT: Keeping his co-conspirator from turning againt him

or

AC: Keeping the woman with the $$$ who has shown her loyalty to him.

What a dilemma for FD!

 

[SkylarSid]

I think that if she is dead, which I do, I highly doubt that she was dismembered as suggested, or burned as suggested. I think she is probably buried, does anyone know if LE had searched any bodies of water in the area? If there is a timeline, what bodies of water, or abandoned or unused properties are within the distance that would be plausible? I'm not familiar with the area, but I tend to lean on what a person has access and time to do?

Yes - many bodies of water were searched and some more than once. Also at least one septic system that I know of. CT is very dense with woods and deep bodies of water. Also interesting to note, on the first arrest it was noted that FD was covered with a poison ivy rash.

 

[sds71]

In an interview Tuesday on WPLR’s Chaz and AJ Show, Pattis said the family “is clear that Mr. Dulos did not procure or arrange for the death of his wife.”

He said the case is not over “in a long shot ... it’s personal.”

On the note found at Fotis Dulos’ home ...

“I was struck by the fact of his great love and loyalty, even in the end, to Michele (Troconis) and his insistence that neither he or she had anything to do with Jennifer’s death.”

On Fotis Dulos’s suicide ...

“He killed himself, in part, because we abandoned our ideals. He was tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Every inference was thrown against him.”

Pattis said “I didn’t see the suicide coming.”


‘The story that is yet to be told ...’

Pattis said Dulos “knew a story that has yet to be told and I think when that story is told a lot of people are going to wonder why we hounded this man unnecessary to death.”

Later, Pattis said, “There’s a larger story to tell and we’re eager to tell it. We thought a jury would be the place. Hopefully, it will still be. We’ll find a way ... I’m a pretty creative guy.”

He said, “We will get Mr. Dulos’ story out on what happened” on the day Jennifer Dulos went missing.

On the last conversation with Fotis Dulos ...

While not disclosing details of his client’s conversation, Pattis said “there was no question Mr. Dulos knew there was a realistic possibility of returning to prison that day.”


In a note found in his car, Dulos said: “I refuse to spend even an hour more in jail.”

On the state not disclosing its evidence ...

“We have still not been provided with discovery ... the state keeps its secrets, while gagging us.”

In a Fotis Dulos’ family statement, it called on state officials to release Jennifer Dulos’ medical records and psychiatric evaluations, “offering the public a chance to juxtapose them to those of Fotis.”

“We demand nothing less than the whole truth,” the family said.
Fotis Dulos attorney: Case not over in a long shot, ‘it’s personal’