Cuddle Cat (and Other Obvious Lies)

[ThoughtFox]

To be fair to the parents, there is a lot of information on this case that I have only read HERE, on WS. Like cuddle cat being a b-day present, parents admit to sedating children with syringes, and Maddie possibly being autistic or asperger's. I have questioned the person who have reported these things but She always seems to miss, or ignore my request for a reference. Most of what you read here is gossip, and should be treated as such.

Oh, I don't think so. Most people here are very careful about spreading rumors, and almost all these things have been widely reported either in the British press or on the TV talk shows. But it could be this article that has caused a bit of confusion, because it is about Maddie's birthday, and the Mom is seen holding Cuddle Cat:

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/...-s-birthday-plea-for-madeline-98487-19094685/

Madeline's birthday was on Day 11 of the search:

MUM'S BIRTHDAY PLEA FOR MADELINE
THE SEARCH FOR MADELEINE: DAY 11
By Lori Campbell And Simon Wright In Praia Da Luz and Susie Boniface In London 13/05/2007

. . . IT was the cruellest day any mother could face. She should have been celebrating her little girl's fourth birthday at a party packed with friends, family and laughter. Instead Kate McCann, sleepless with anxiety, greeted dawn with a growing despair as the hunt for missing Madeleine today enters another unbearable week. In a statement read on her behalf she pleaded" "On Madeleine's birthday, please keep looking, please keep praying, please help bring Madeleine home."

The McCanns walked silently side-by-side into church, Kate clutching the Cuddle Cat toy that has not left her side since Madeleine's disappearance.

I just found this interview that seems really strange to me - and it's really worth reading because it is just with Kate in her own words. She says over and over that no one "would ever dream" about a predator stealing a child. Oh yeah? I think alot of parents think of that all the time and make sure their kids are safe:

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article2836182.ece

That night

The night she went missing there was about 20 seconds of disbelief where I thought 'that can't be right'. I was checking for her. Then there was panic and fear. That was the first thing that hit. I was screaming her name. I ran to the group. Everyone was the same. It was just total fear. I never thought for one second that she'd walked out. I knew someone had been in the apartment because of the way it had been left.

But I knew she wouldn't do that anyway. There wasn't a shadow of a doubt in my mind she'd been taken. That's why the fear set in. Then you go through the guilt phase. Straight away, because we didn't know what had happened. We were just so desperately sorry. Every hour now, I still question, 'why did I think that was safe?'

I can't describe how much I love Madeleine. If I'd had to think for one second, 'should we have dinner and leave them?' I wouldn't have done it. It didn't happen like that. I didn't have to think for a second, that's how safe I felt.
Maybe it was because it was family-friendly, because it felt so safe. That week we had left them alone while we had dinner. There is no way on this planet I would take a risk, no matter how small, with my children. I do say to myself 'why did I think it was safe?' But it did feel safe and so right. I love her and I'm a totally responsible parent and that's the only thing that keeps me going. I have no doubt about that.

You don't expect a predator to break in and take your daughter out the bed. It could have happened under other circumstances and there would still be the regret. It wasn't like a decision we made. It was a matter of 'let's get the kids to sleep, then we'll have dinner.' It wasn't a 'shall I, shan't I?' thing. I feel desperately sorry to her that we weren't there.

This has touched so many people. I've had so many letters from mothers, really kind words. People have said 'Kate, we've done this a hundred times over ourselves. Why would you for one minute think something like that would happen?' It's not like we went down town or anything.

Hmmm - that just raises my eyebrows even more. How could she "know" that a child wouldn't suddenly get up and go looking for Mommy and Daddy? I know from my own kids that they can be totally unpredictable, especially at age 4, and you have no way of knowing what they are going to do. If a toy was up high somewhere, and it wasn't supposed to be, I would assume the kids threw it up there, but then, I didn't usually knock my toddlers out before dinner - geesh.

 

[Gin]

Unfortunately one way you would "know" a child wouldn't wake up and look for Mommy and Daddy is if you're a doctor and you've sedated your kiddos.

I have to hope that sedating children for the parent's convenience is considered abuse in Great Britain, USA, or anyplace on the planet

 

[CaliKid]

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/...-s-birthday-plea-for-madeline-98487-19094685/

As Thoughtfox said, this may be where the idea that Cuddle Cat was a birthday gift came from.

I can't find anything to substantiate it either way. All I've read is speculation from the forums, some of them originally anecdotes from family members that found their way there through second-hand information. Unfortunately, many of the early threads in the Madeleine forums are now gone because of the hacker wars over the summer. People were posting , etc. trying to get various non-McCann threads shut down.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Unfortunately one way you would "know" a child wouldn't wake up and look for Mommy and Daddy is if you're a doctor and you've sedated your kiddos.

I have to hope that sedating children for the parent's convenience is considered abuse in Great Britain, USA, or anyplace on the planet

EXACTLY!!

 

[BloodshotEye]

The stuffed cat toy vs. Maddies B-day present of a greenish stuffed thing

Maddie's stuffed "cuddle cat" toy
My understanding, is that there was a little confusion with the initial reports of these two toys. The stuffed thing that Kate very childishly refers to as "Cuddle Cat" (pronoun), as opposed to the stuffed cuddle cat (noun), is a favorite toy of Maddies. The tag on the toy, is impinted with the words "Cuttle Cat". Kate reported that she took this stuffed cat to work with her, and that is why the cadaver dogs may have detected a cadaver scent on it. Yea. Sure Kate...
See a photo posted by CaliKid, in the "Pictures" thread. Post #11.

Why do I get the sense that when Kate mentions this stuffed toy, she is about to break into a conversation with Mr. Cuddle Cat? e.g. So, where were you Cuddle Cat? And she answers for it: "Well, I was in your pocket when we went to work, remember"? Psycho. That's all I have to say about that.

Maddie's Birthday Present that was a stuffed toy
There was yet another stuffed toy, that was for Maddie's birthday present. I think I recall that it was greenish. There isn't a photo of it in the sticky "Photo" thread yet. I think it even looks cat-like. Will try to hunt one down.

Hope I didn't confuse the issue, anymore than it is. ;]

 

[Texana]

The stuffed cat toy vs. Maddies B-day present of a greenish stuffed thing

Maddie's stuffed "cuddle cat" toy
My understanding, is that there was a little confusion with the initial reports of these two toys. The stuffed thing that Kate very childishly refers to as "Cuddle Cat" (pronoun), as opposed to the stuffed cuddle cat (noun), is a favorite toy of Maddies. The tag on the toy, is impinted with the words "Cuttle Cat". Kate reported that she took this stuffed cat to work with her, and that is why the cadaver dogs may have detected a cadaver scent on it. Yea. Sure Kate...
See a photo posted by CaliKid, in the "Pictures" thread. Post #11.

Why do I get the sense that when Kate mentions this stuffed toy, she is about to break into a conversation with Mr. Cuddle Cat? e.g. So, where were you Cuddle Cat? And she answers for it: "Well, I was in your pocket when we went to work, remember"? Psycho. That's all I have to say about that.

Maddie's Birthday Present that was a stuffed toy
There was yet another stuffed toy, that was for Maddie's birthday present. I think I recall that it was greenish. There isn't a photo of it in the sticky "Photo" thread yet. I think it even looks cat-like. Will try to hunt one down.

Hope I didn't confuse the issue, anymore than it is. ;]

You did a nice job listing the differences and hopefully clearing up the confusion.

I remember reading about the greenish toy, too. It was green for "hope" and it was described as a "ragdoll" kind of toy, that the McCanns bought for Madeleine's birthday.

I think I saw a photo of it but it's being carried by one of the McCanns and you can't really make out what it is.

 

[BethInAK]

Unfortunately one way you would "know" a child wouldn't wake up and look for Mommy and Daddy is if you're a doctor and you've sedated your kiddos.

I have to hope that sedating children for the parent's convenience is considered abuse in Great Britain, USA, or anyplace on the planet

Thats an excellent point. We know from Mrs Fenn that we DID have her waking and calling for daddy. So how could they possibly know that it wouldn't happen?

 

[Spotted1]

All he has ever admitted was giving the kids Calpol - which is NOT the same as sedating far from it

In fact they have fervently denied ever having given the kids sedatives

I'm sorry to just jump in here at random... but I've been lurking the McCann case threads on this forum for quite some time, and I continually see it said that Calpol/paracetamol/acetaminophen/tylenol doesn't sedate children. But for some kids, it does! I have a 3.5 year old daughter, and a 4 month old daughter, and everytime I've ever given either of them a dose of infants/children's acetaminophen, it causes drowsiness. Even as an adult woman, I can take half an adult dose of acetaminophen and experience drowsiness.

In the right sized dose, it can cause sedation, especially in a small child.

 

[Gin]

I'm sorry to just jump in here at random... but I've been lurking the McCann case threads on this forum for quite some time, and I continually see it said that Calpol/paracetamol/acetaminophen/tylenol doesn't sedate children. But for some kids, it does! I have a 3.5 year old daughter, and a 4 month old daughter, and everytime I've ever given either of them a dose of infants/children's acetaminophen, it causes drowsiness. Even as an adult woman, I can take half an adult dose of acetaminophen and experience drowsiness.

In the right sized dose, it can cause sedation, especially in a small child.

It absolutely is used for sedation. It's use a "mommy's helper" to get little ones to sleep seems to be becoming controversial, which is a very good thing.

 

[Rino]

It absolutely is used for sedation. It's use a "mommy's helper" to get little ones to sleep seems to be becoming controversial, which is a very good thing.

And Gin is mommies little helper at martini hour

 

[Gin]

And Gin is mommies little helper at martini hour

........actually Gin prefers chardonnay..........

 

[Spotted1]

It absolutely is used for sedation. It's use a "mommy's helper" to get little ones to sleep seems to be becoming controversial, which is a very good thing.

Right. Benadryl is another common medicine used for sedation.

I know prior to appointments for vaccines, pediatricians will reccommend a dose of tylenol about 30 minutes prior to the appointment time so the child will a) have the fever reducer/pain relief already in their system and effective, and b) be drowsy so they'll be less aware of the shots being given to them.

 

[gord]

Right. Benadryl is another common medicine used for sedation.

I know prior to appointments for vaccines, pediatricians will reccommend a dose of tylenol about 30 minutes prior to the appointment time so the child will a) have the fever reducer/pain relief already in their system and effective, and b) be drowsy so they'll be less aware of the shots being given to them.

Caplpol is freely available over the counter - it has mild pain killing qualities and is used by thousands of mothers in the UK tio help bring down temp .
I know what people are saying about drowsiness , but that is more to do with it is almost alwas given at night aftert a warm bath when the child temp is a little high or they are teething

The way it is being described in various threads here as some sort of knovk out drug that renders the child unconcious . It is not

I have given calpol to all my kids at various stages of their lives it is quite normal

 

[Gin]

Calpol, is similar to Tylenol. Tylenol is not a drug without danger. When used properly, it's fine. Most health experts feel that the risk of liver damage in young children is a good reason why any acetaminophen drug shouldn't be used routinely.
If a child truly has a fever, or has a very, very bad day of teething, that's one thing. Otherwise, it's far better to go with bath, rocking, and soothing without drugs.

Which brings up another question-why would doctors, who know this stuff, be so comfortable dosing their little ones?

 

[gord]

Calpol, is similar to Tylenol. Tylenol is not a drug without danger. When used properly, it's fine. Most health experts feel that the risk of liver damage in young children is a good reason why any acetaminophen drug shouldn't be used routinely.
If a child truly has a fever, or has a very, very bad day of teething, that's one thing. Otherwise, it's far better to go with bath, rocking, and soothing without drugs.

Which brings up another question-why would doctors, who know this stuff, be so comfortable dosing their little ones?

I have no ideas how often they were given it - I doubt that sort of detail has been given . They werev in a hot country oustide - so maybe if they got a touch of sun then it would be useful .

I was justy trying to make the point -- Calpol is the only " drug " the Mccaans have admitted to giving their kids

They have denied ever using any other drugs whatsoever and Calpol will not have the results of being a knock out drug so they could go and party as it has been suggested .

Now it is entirely possible that they gave all sorts of drugs to the kids - but that has never come out and is just pure specualtion

 

[Spotted1]

Caplpol is freely available over the counter - it has mild pain killing qualities and is used by thousands of mothers in the UK tio help bring down temp .
I know what people are saying about drowsiness , but that is more to do with it is almost alwas given at night aftert a warm bath when the child temp is a little high or they are teething

The way it is being described in various threads here as some sort of knovk out drug that renders the child unconcious . It is not

I have given calpol to all my kids at various stages of their lives it is quite normal

I know it's sold OTC. I have a bottle of infants tylenol and childrens tylenol both in my medicine cabinet. I have children, as I said earlier, and I know the effects it has. I've given it to my children midday (prior to appointments for vaccinations) and it still sedates them, no bath necessary.

Infants tylenol is concentrated to have 80mg per .8ml dosage. A 2-3 year old, or a child weighing between 24 and 35 pounds is given a 1.6ml dose. Purely speculating on my part, I would assume that is the dosage administered to the twins. Maddie, being just shy of 4, would've required a slightly larger dose.

What is there to say that Gerry didn't give Maddie one dose, and Kate (without realizing Gerry had already done so) gave Maddie more, and it caused a problem?

 

[Betsy]

Sometimes if my kids have spent all day outside or at the pool, they will feel warm at bedtime and I'll give them a little Tylenol to bring their (slight) fever down. They do seem to sleep better, but I couldn't say if the Tylenol itself causes this or if they are simply exhausted from a busy day. I could definitely see Maddie being pretty tired at the end of the day--the twins, too, I'm sure. Being bathed and put to bed at an early hour should be sufficient to get them to sleep, unless they had hit the wall and were overly exhausted. That's another issue altogether.

 

[gord]

I know it's sold OTC. I have a bottle of infants tylenol and childrens tylenol both in my medicine cabinet. I have children, as I said earlier, and I know the effects it has. I've given it to my children midday (prior to appointments for vaccinations) and it still sedates them, no bath necessary.

Infants tylenol is concentrated to have 80mg per .8ml dosage. A 2-3 year old, or a child weighing between 24 and 35 pounds is given a 1.6ml dose. Purely speculating on my part, I would assume that is the dosage administered to the twins. Maddie, being just shy of 4, would've required a slightly larger dose.

What is there to say that Gerry didn't give Maddie one dose, and Kate (without realizing Gerry had already done so) gave Maddie more, and it caused a problem?

it is a parecetamol based drug - any over dose would attack the liver - which would take a few hours for symptons to occur -

I have also read that you would have to give a kid a lot more than two 1.6ml doses for it to have any overdoe affect -

anyway they are doctors - if they wanted to sedate theiir kids they would get their hands on stuff a lot stronger than calpol

 

[Belle]

I haven't seen anything confirming that the children were given a sedative at all, of any kind. No idea where that info came from.

I agree that the children should not have been left alone -- whether they needed Tylenol or not. It's completely selfish and irresponsible, and here in the U.S. also against the law. Don't know about Portugal.

I guess my thing is, I don't admire the McCann's and I don't think they have likeable personalities, and I think they certainly contributed to this situation by their neglect. But I just haven't been convinced that they killed their daughter and disposed of her body. Much of the suspicion surrounding them is based on speculation and exaggeration as far as I can tell. (Now, what the suspicions of PJ are based on, I'd love to know -- that could change my mind for sure.)

This decribes how I feel exactly.

 

[teacherbees]

I've given tylenol to my chlldren for things like teething, sunburn pain, mild fever, etc...and I think it does have a mild sedating effect.

However, from the description of the twins - completely out and unable to be aroused even with the tremendous amount of commotion going on and being picked up and transported to another place - it sounds like there are some possibilities that might have been considered beyond the normal dosage of a children's pain reliever.

It's possible K and G were overdosing the kids to make sure the sedative effect took...or they lied about what drug they used.

I personally don't trust their word. Kate's absurd "I took my child's bedtime lovey with me to work and rubbed it on the dead folk before bringing it back into my home and into contact with my small children" sure sounds like a whopper to me.

Initially, they flat out denied giving their kids any drugs...

So these are people who have the ability to lie. And, as I tell my kids, when you're caught lying, it only makes things harder for you because, from that point on, no one ever really knows what things you're saying are the truth and what are more lies.