Defense Motion to Seal Penalty Phase Discovery Documents

[jennyb]

I was trying to think who on the stand would convince me to spare Casey the needle. And I came up with three people.

The first two are Grandma Shirley and Grandpa (Alex? I can't remember his name). I mean, Grandma Shirley forgave Casey for stealing from her. Grandpa held Caylee one last time and might not want Casey dead because she was the one gave birth to Caylee. I know if I saw her elderly grandparents on the stand, I might have trouble giving her the needle. Her friends, no. Her ailing grandparents begging for her life? Ouch. I couldn't ignore that, and I don't think a jury could either. That's if they were willing to get up there and testify on her behalf in the penalty phase. Maybe that's who Baez was trying to protect? I would think if there's too much stress on them, they might not make it to trial.

The third powerful person would be Caylee's bio dad, if he was willing to testify on Casey's behalf. Of course, that's if he's alive. Caylee's father wanting to spare Casey's life might sway me. A man who never met his child, had that child kept from him her whole life, and his child was murdered by her own mother, getting up on the stand and begging for Casey not to be killed would be extremely persuasive to me and also a jury. Maybe Baez is trying to protect him too, if he's alive? Maybe he agreed to testify as long as he didn't get too much media attention for it? And I know HHJP said everyone is known to the case. It's possible the father is known, but hasn't been identified yet as Caylee's father, just maybe as a friend of Caseys? So that person would be known as a player in the case, just not Caylee's father. And maybe we won't be surprised by who it is. Just a thought.

I don't know. Shirley Pleasea couldn't stand the sight of her. It's written in her emails she told Casey NOT to come to her house to clean. She didn't even want her grandaughter in her house for a moment after the theft. Pretty much washed her hands of her.

The SA can bring in all her emails she wrote to her sister, all her statements to LE, NOT GOOD in my opinion. Not good enough for mitigation.

Casey's father is a huge stretch (although I think he's alive and I think LE knows who he is). I'd stake my life on the bet he ain't testifying on her behalf.

 

[Numbers]

I was trying to think who on the stand would convince me to spare Casey the needle. And I came up with three people.

The first two are Grandma Shirley and Grandpa (Alex? I can't remember his name). I mean, Grandma Shirley forgave Casey for stealing from her. Grandpa held Caylee one last time and might not want Casey dead because she was the one gave birth to Caylee. I know if I saw her elderly grandparents on the stand, I might have trouble giving her the needle. Her friends, no. Her ailing grandparents begging for her life? Ouch. I couldn't ignore that, and I don't think a jury could either. That's if they were willing to get up there and testify on her behalf in the penalty phase. Maybe that's who Baez was trying to protect? I would think if there's too much stress on them, they might not make it to trial.

The third powerful person would be Caylee's bio dad, if he was willing to testify on Casey's behalf. Of course, that's if he's alive. Caylee's father wanting to spare Casey's life might sway me. A man who never met his child, had that child kept from him her whole life, and his child was murdered by her own mother, getting up on the stand and begging for Casey not to be killed would be extremely persuasive to me and also a jury. Maybe Baez is trying to protect him too, if he's alive? Maybe he agreed to testify as long as he didn't get too much media attention for it? And I know HHJP said everyone is known to the case. It's possible the father is known, but hasn't been identified yet as Caylee's father, just maybe as a friend of Caseys? So that person would be known as a player in the case, just not Caylee's father. And maybe we won't be surprised by who it is. Just a thought.

Alas, I believe that Grandpa is incapable of testifying.

 

[Aedrys]

Alas, I believe that Grandpa is incapable of testifying.

Oh no, did he pass away? That is so sad...

 

[MD MOMMY]

You are possibly right. I just can't see him willing to get on the stand after everything his family has been through because of her. I mean, her parents called his dad the head of a Satanic cult! And it's not like she ever stood up for him this entire time either. I don't know. If he was willing to get on the stand and beg for Casey's life, that would definitely be powerful. I just don't know if he's willing to do that, though.

I think he very much loved Casey. She scorned him and IMO you always have this thing for people you loved that blew you off. Even after all he's been through, I think he is going to do it. You're right she said some yuck things about him too during this "stay as far away from Jesse as you can" etc. to her parents. BUT it was mostly her parents dragging him and his family around. Casey even told her parents to take the support from the Grunds in one of the jail calls early on.

 

[jennyb]

I disagree. In lots of interview I watched of him he was saying things like "this isn't the Casey I knew" "she loved Caylee" and so on. I think he is gong to be a shocker. It seems to me he has more grudges against her parents than he ever did of her JMO.

He called her a diabolical liar and more.

How many times have we heard from neighbors and friends of the convicted, "Gee, he was such a nice guy!"

It ain't gonna wash. Just because her friends didn't see Casey directly abusing Caylee (although I bet they can point to neglect -- remember the balcony incident while Casey and Tony were going at it?) that's just not enough.

And they don't know that Casey LOVED Caylee. They can't testify to that. They spent very little time with the two of them because Caylee was always with the NANNY at the beach!

 

[jennyb]

Oh no, did he pass away? That is so sad...

I believe he just has serious age-related dementia. Did you see the vid from almost three years ago with Caylee on his lap? He was barely conscious. Imagine what he's like now.

 

[jennyb]

You know, Caylee was with babysitters, what, the first year of her life. First with Christina? and others, and then with the Grunds.

What can her friends say, she dragged Caylee to the mall once in a while?

There will be much testimony about how much time she spent on the phone and on-line. Practically every waking moment. Not much time for your baby.

Plus the guy from the computer store at the mall who practically saw Caylee struggling with the heavy door. Some people don't believe him but I do. And I think that will come in too.

Vague impressions of yeah, she was a good mom I guess, are weak. Reality proves otherwise, while Caylee was alive and clearly after her death. 31 days. No emotion, no remorse. She's toast.

 

[Aedrys]

I believe he just has serious age-related dementia. Did you see the vid from almost three years ago with Caylee on his lap? He was barely conscious. Imagine what he's like now.

Oh. Okay. I've been able to bring myself to watch that video. Seeing pictures of Caylee breaks my heart enough. I don't think I can handle hearing her voice, seeing her alive, you know?

But if he does have dementia, then yeah, there's no way he can testify.

 

[MD MOMMY]

He called her a diabolical liar and more.

How many times have we heard from neighbors and friends of the convicted, "Gee, he was such a nice guy!"

It ain't gonna wash. Just because her friends didn't see Casey directly abusing Caylee (although I bet they can point to neglect -- remember the balcony incident while Casey and Tony were going at it?) that's just not enough.

And they don't know that Casey LOVED Caylee. They can't testify to that. They spent very little time with the two of them because Caylee was always with the NANNY at the beach!

He absolutely did! He also said she was a great mom, loved Caylee, this isn't he Casey he knew and MUCH more. Her old friends were around Caylee a lot. Have you watched his interviews he did with the news etc? I just watched them all again when the list came out, very good stuff there for the defense to use in the PP. I need to find the list we have so far. Was all of AL friends on there? That is who witnessed the balcony thing AND that would never come up in penalty phase.

ETA Remember we are talking penalty phase not trial here. During the trial of course she is TOAST!

 

[sleutherontheside]

I think it is very hard for people to imagine how Jesse or anyone else could testify during the penalty phase. As much as this case has touched hearts, we have to remember that for some people, KC was a sister, a friend, a grand daughter, a girlfriend, a neighbor, a co-worker, a person.

Once you get to the penalty phase of a capital case....no longer are you trying to get off, but you are only fighting to save your own life.

From what we have read about Jesse, he has strong religious convictions. While angry with KC's family and others for the smear campaign against him, I tend to believe that he values life and would not support the death penalty.

Jesse could be the most important mitigation witness in the entire penalty phase.

I suspect that the defense, after recognizing that, put a halt on the smear campaign against him. Otherwise, how could they expect him to speak on her behalf.

If Jesse can help KC escape death...we can't fault him for doing so. It just shows how deeply rooted his religious values are.

IMO the only people that JB wants kept secreted away...are experts and other professionals that will "tip off" family members. The defense MUST have full support of KC's family. He likely doesn't want them pizzed off.

When you look at how much has been released from KC herself....letters to Cookie with comments on every topic from bikini zone grooming to recaps of her attorney meetings, do you really think that visitors are the issue??

It's what message the visitors will send to "certain players" that has the team worried.

Me thinks a good "Plan B" is in order.

 

[Numbers]

Oh no, did he pass away? That is so sad...

Nononononono......

I believe he had a stroke, which has left him without speech.

I'll be glad to be corrected and hear good news to the contrary.

 

[Leila]

Wow. What an intellectually dishonest woman Ms. Finnell is. She respects the witnesses' privacy and doesn't want them harassed, unless SHE does the harassing. The Ohio family told her they do NOT want to speak with her. Amazing.

I'm just catching up on this thread, and I'm very curious about the Ohio family they want to include as witnesses in the penalty phase, as I'm sure we all are.

I think we can assume that by Ohio family the defense is referring to relatives on both George and Cindy's side of the family that they hope can give insight to issues within the family that contributed to the manner in which both George and Cindy parented Casey. I think we can make some guesses as to who might testify.

If I recall correctly, Cindy has one brother who still lives in Ohio - didn't follow the rest of the family south. That might be one witness the defense wants to include.

I believe George still has some extended family in Ohio, and there's also the one friend who came to Orlando and was there at the time Casey was first released on bond from jail. That friend was there when Tim Miller came to Florida and went to the Anthony home and asked that Casey put an X on the map where they should start looking for Caylee. He's the one that stated "the answers are in there (indicating Casey's bedroom) and the *itch isn't talking." In the penalty phase George's friend might testify to the relationship he's observed through the years.

In the beginning of this case it was rumored that George had been previously married before he married Cindy - no children from that marriage. If I recall correctly, his first wife's name was Terry. Was that rumor ever verified? That might be someone the defense might want to include as a witness.

 

[Numbers]

<respectfully snipped to address>


In the beginning of this case it was rumored that George had been previously married before he married Cindy - no children from that marriage. If I recall correctly, his first wife's name was Terry. Was that rumor ever verified? That might be someone the defense might want to include as a witness.

This was verified.

Now I can *completely* understand if she doesn't want to talk to Finnell.

 

[MD MOMMY]

I'm just catching up on this thread, and I'm very curious about the Ohio family they want to include as witnesses in the penalty phase, as I'm sure we all are.

I think we can assume that by Ohio family the defense is referring to relatives on both George and Cindy's side of the family that they hope can give insight to issues within the family that contributed to the manner in which both George and Cindy parented Casey. I think we can make some guesses as to who might testify.

If I recall correctly, Cindy has one brother who still lives in Ohio - didn't follow the rest of the family south. That might be one witness the defense wants to include.

I believe George still has some extended family in Ohio, and there's also the one friend who came to Orlando and was there at the time Casey was first released on bond from jail. That friend was there when Tim Miller came to Florida and went to the Anthony home and asked that Casey put an X on the map where they should start looking for Caylee. He's the one that stated "the answers are in there (indicating Casey's bedroom) and the *itch isn't talking." In the penalty phase George's friend might testify to the relationship he's observed through the years.

In the beginning of this case it was rumored that George had been previously married before he married Cindy - no children from that marriage. If I recall correctly, his first wife's name was Terry. Was that rumor ever verified? That might be someone the defense might want to include as a witness.

I'm sitting here laughing rembering Rick when he came out on the internet about the A family. Do you remember that? He was a riot. What do you think Terry would offer the defense? Just curious!

 

[logicalgirl]

I'm going to float an (unpopular) idea here (fools rush in), and that's the concept that Baez may not be successful at throwing CA under the bus during the penalty/mitigation phase.

How long do we think the trial will last? Eight to eleven weeks? Okay so for the first eight weeks, we are hearing the actual evidence arguments from the SA and at least a rebuttal from the defense.

Here comes the hard part. Imagine you know nothing about Cindy or any of her behaviors. The jury is going to watch her day after day, glued eyes on ICA, looking concerned, loving, weeping, etc., etc., and they will also see ICA rebuff any attempt at emotional contact.

The jury will also hear collaterally about information such as Cindy was the family primary provider, it was Cindy who was chasing down ICA to bring that child home in the early morning hours to her own bed, it was Cindy who made the 911 call, it was Cindy who took little Caylee to see her great grand dad, and made the beautiful video, and she who babysit Caylee on her time off and it was her bank account ICA kept draining to support her playtime.l
Meanwhile they will be observing the body language of the mother who is concerned about her daughter.

I also think it is hard for me and perhaps for us to remember this trial is about ICA killing her daughter, not CA showing no public mourning for her murdered grand daughter.

So, in the penalty phase the jury may "hear" of CA's poor parenting skills and controlling ways, however, this will be on top of their own observations and judgement calls already formed about CA, so I'm not convinced the defense is going to be able to pull this off. Jose, the wheels on the bus may fall off.....

........................................:truce:

 

[jennyb]

I'm going to float an (unpopular) idea here (fools rush in), and that's the concept that Baez may not be successful at throwing CA under the bus during the penalty/mitigation phase.

How long do we think the trial will last? Eight to eleven weeks? Okay so for the first eight weeks, we are hearing the actual evidence arguments from the SA and at least a rebuttal from the defense.

Here comes the hard part. Imagine you know nothing about Cindy or any of her behaviors. The jury is going to watch her day after day, glued eyes on ICA, looking concerned, loving, weeping, etc., etc., and they will also see ICA rebuff any attempt at emotional contact.

The jury will also hear collaterally about information such as Cindy was the family primary provider, it was Cindy who was chasing down ICA to bring that child home in the early morning hours to her own bed, it was Cindy who made the 911 call, it was Cindy who took little Caylee to see her great grand dad, and made the beautiful video, and she who babysit Caylee on her time off and it was her bank account ICA kept draining to support her playtime.l
Meanwhile they will be observing the body language of the mother who is concerned about her daughter.

I also think it is hard for me and perhaps for us to remember this trial is about ICA killing her daughter, not CA showing no public mourning for her murdered grand daughter.

So, in the penalty phase the jury may "hear" of CA's poor parenting skills and controlling ways, however, this will be on top of their own observations and judgement calls already formed about CA, so I'm not convinced the defense is going to be able to pull this off. Jose, the wheels on the bus may fall off.....

........................................:truce:

I think you've made excellent points. I don't think going after Cindy is a particularly winning idea but it's a tad better than expecting her friends to be persuasive about Casey's character or about her being a great mom.

Neither is a good choice.

Jesse is going to have to admit his family was babysitting for Caylee because her mom lied and said she was working. What a great mom huh?

I don't think they can use Casey's friends to any good use.

And btw, generally, if the friends resist testifying at penalty it doesn't mean they're not good people, or even Christians or whatever. It's not black or white. It doesn't make them vindictive or heartless. It's just ridiculous IN MY OPINION, to think they'll go out of their way to save her life. But we'll see...

 

[jennyb]

Amy, Tony, Jesse, Ricardo, all of them must have pretty hefty attorney bills by now. Either they or their parents are responsible for this kind of financial outlay. Come trial it will be more.

Casey stole from them, lied to them, killed a baby they cared about (certainly Jesse did). They might never get over this trauma. She did them wrong in many grevious ways. You can forgive but it doesn't mean you forget.

 

[logicalgirl]

I think you've made excellent points. I don't think going after Cindy is a particularly winning idea but it's a tad better than expecting her friends to be persuasive about Casey's character or about her being a great mom.

Neither is a good choice.

Jesse is going to have to admit his family was babysitting for Caylee because her mom lied and said she was working. What a great mom huh?

I don't think they can use Casey's friends to any good use.

And btw, generally, if the friends resist testifying at penalty it doesn't mean they're not good people, or even Christians or whatever. It's not black or white. It doesn't make them vindictive or heartless. It's just ridiculous IN MY OPINION, to think they'll go out of their way to save her life. But we'll see...

You all make very good points about why people who once considered ICA to be a friend should feel they "must" or "should" testify. I hope they realize it is not black and white, and like Jennyb says, are not heartless or vindictive if they do not testify. It is after all the responsibility of the courts and the jury to decide her fate. I would particularly not like to see any of them testify if they are still carrying any influence or repercussions of their involvement with ICA into their current life. I suspect that would include all of them because how quickly can someone shake off this kind of tentacle like association with a so called friend.

I also wanted to add to my comments above re Cindy and the jury, that while the jury is able to observe Cindy as the caring mother and grandmother, they will also see ICA's court room behavior of "Hi Jose - this is soooo exciting! Baby, what baby? Stop those meanies from saying bad things about me, stop it right now!" etc., that is her normal hearing "self".

And the results of that comparison will not benefit ICA. Then go to penalty and try to blame both the evidence and ICA's demeanor a result of ICA's upbringing? Uh uh. Epic fail - IMO.

This is again, not me defending CA's behavior on any level, but projecting ahead to what I suspect the jury may observe.

 

[Intermezzo]

Well, I might catch flack for my opinion here, but if I had a "friend" like ICA who I had known for a brief few years or less, and did what ICA is found guilty for committing murder of her daughter, I wouldn't have any hesitations in telling the defense team I could not in good conscience be a penalty witness for her. The 31 days alone, party harty and lying about it while smiling would be my reasoning.



This must have escaped by me because I don't remember it.



Jesse is a better person than I am if this is the case.

I can see the family members begging for her life but all the people she had used and abused in a short few years and less shouldn't have the opportunity.

Count,
i'm sorry my post about Rusciano was confusing..I couldn't go back and fix it...
I was only speculating about Ruciano saying he didn't want her to get the DP was not that he actually said it..

the Defense wants to disqualify the evidence LE collected about him and Casey's relationship to use at trial yet they want him as a Penalty Phase witness so she doesn't get the DP.

 

[Intermezzo]

He also said she was a diabolical liar. It would be hard to get past that statement. First of all, knowing she was pregnant when she met him, she tried to pass it off at his child- then after Caylee was born she had his family baby-sitting while she 'worked' - until RG put his foot down and the 'Nanny' appeared, to save the day. I don't think they could risk having JG take the stand...

IMO
I believe the negative things about Casey( such as diabolical liar) will come out during the trial and will be more helpful to the Prosecution to get a Guilty verdict. And I believe Jesse and his family were extremely upset over all the allegations against him..

Yes I believe Jesse may be helpful to the Defense in the Penalty Phase in order to spare her life...it's all about sparing her life at that point.

Yes, Caylee is dead...nothing can change that..but Jesse did love Casey once and he may not want to see her get the ultimate punishment.

IMO Jesse comes across, perhaps because of the strong religious beliefs, as having a lot of compassion. He may very well help keep her alive and serving LWOP.

:twocents: