Defense What is their strategy? #1

[amethyst221]

Whether the defense alleges that the "real" culprit is Zanny the Kidnapping Nanny and Her Crew of Toddlers or a friendly stalker, they still can't have it all ways. It was dangerous to Caylee and she needed to be saved asap, above and beyond the interests or safety of the grownups in the family or it wasn't, so why not identify the person and get her back? This silly dance of excuses makes no sense. If they really believe Caylee was killed later than June or July, when Casey was first thrown in the slammer and refused to help, then that means she could have talked and tried to save her. If she was not in danger, why did she end up dead? How did Casey communicate with the evil stalker? What about all the statements that the A's or their people were hot on their trail? Why would they need immunity to pass on the identity of the person and save their beloved Casey? Is BC that bad a lawyer? Is there more of a record of this stalker than there is of ZG's existence? Why the big secret as to the identity? It would greatly aid the defense of her case to tell LE who this is and have them drag that person in for questioning. JMO.

 

[SoSueMe]

I don't think its unbealivable. In fact many times fact is stranger than fiction. Orlando is full of strange crimes. I think this is exactly what the defense is going to say and I think they are going to pin it on Ric. He was the one who never said he loved KC until she started seeing Tony. He had access to her house, and car. I even think KC was telling her mom months before that Zanny was watching Caylee when it was actually Ric. That is why the photo's of Zanny's place were the photo's of Ric's place.

IMO it's unbelievable because she would have been covering for the stalker, Ric or ZFG (insert anyone you like here) up until and including July 15th when she told CA and LE that she had talked to Caylee that very day and she was fine. "Hi Mommy"

Why lie for any one of them when her rear end is on the line? I just don't see KC doing that for anyone.

Yes, we have strange crimes here also (Houston). ACK!

 

[Balthazar]

IMO it's unbelievable because she would have been covering for the stalker, Ric or ZFG (insert anyone you like here) up until and including July 15th when she told CA and LE that she had talked to Caylee that very day and she was fine. "Hi Mommy"

Why lie for any one of them when her rear end is on the line? I just don't see KC doing that for anyone.

Yes, we have strange crimes here also (Houston). ACK!

Think it over this way: In this theory, Casey thought a good friend was taking care of Caylee so she didn't have to - Casey had NO IDEA that this person was a stalker and that this person secretly was angry with her and planning to kill Caylee and destroy Casey's life. Casey thought she knew this person and she trusted them and didn't want them to be mad at her so she didn't want to turn them into the police that first day. Alternatively, it is possible that sometime after gaining possession of Caylee this person promised Casey that Caylee would be returned on her birthday if Casey was compliant and remained silent about the stalker's identity and there were probably other requirements. Once the police placed her under arrest for child endangerment - which was the afternoon of July 16 ( http://www.docstoc.com/docs/952244/Casey-Anthony-Arrest-Report )- Casey got the attorney and all information flow from Casey to family, friends and police was stopped immediately by Baez. Even after her arrest, Casey might not have thought that Caylee was in danger, although she might have worried about where she was and hoped she was going to be returned by Caylee's birthday. Remember Casey said the person wanted to teach her a lesson and to get Caylee back she had to do something. The question will be what exactly did this stalker want Casey to do? And additionally, the question is why would Baez hesitate to expose this person? I have actually thought of several plausible explanations as to the reason why Baez has not reported this person to police or FBI - and the reasons are very worrisome, yet make perfect sense.

 

[yolorado]

Think it over this way: In this theory, Casey thought a good friend was taking care of Caylee so she didn't have to - Casey had NO IDEA that this person was a stalker and that this person secretly was angry with her and planning to kill Caylee and destroy Casey's life. Casey thought she knew this person and she trusted them and didn't want them to be mad at her so she didn't want to turn them into the police that first day. Alternatively, it is possible that sometime after gaining possession of Caylee this person promised Casey that Caylee would be returned on her birthday if Casey was compliant and remained silent about the stalker's identity and there were probably other requirements. Once the police placed her under arrest for child endangerment - which was the afternoon of July 16 ( http://www.docstoc.com/docs/952244/Casey-Anthony-Arrest-Report )- Casey got the attorney and all information flow from Casey to family, friends and police was stopped immediately by Baez. Even after her arrest, Casey might not have thought that Caylee was in danger, although she might have worried about where she was and hoped she was going to be returned by Caylee's birthday. Remember Casey said the person wanted to teach her a lesson and to get Caylee back she had to do something. The question will be what exactly did this stalker want Casey to do? And additionally, the question is why would Baez hesitate to expose this person? I have actually thought of several plausible explanations as to the reason why Baez has not reported this person to police or FBI - and the reasons are very worrisome, yet make perfect sense.

Huh!?

What caring mother 'protects' their child by leaving them with a dangerous person, quite possibly irrational, as well as sadistic, trying to 'teach them a lesson' who has kidnapped their child. The child could be abused, starved, raped, tortured or killed. The child could be taken to another country, filmed for , sold into sexual slavery, never to be located or seen again by her family. On what rational planet do kidnapping victims NOT co-operate with the police to bring their children home when they have been taken by mean, potentially psychotic characters 'to teach them a lesson?' Then, if the child who was taken to teach her mother a lesson is found dead, tripple-bagged and thrown away like trash, what innocent mother doesn't do whatever it takes to bring the murderer to justice...unless, of course, she is the murderer and doesn't want to be brought to justice. People who kill their children seldom co-operate with the police to find their missing children. People whose children were actually kidnapped almost universally co-operate with the police...after they quickly report the children missing.

This case illustrates a weakness in our country's system of legal justice. If a mother loses her child, doesn't report it, won't say where or when, won't give truthful information, won't co-operate with the police, in fact obstructs efforts to find the child, that should be ALL the prosecution has to prove to put that so-called mother away for the rest of her sorry, pathetic life if the baby turns up as skeletal remains. We shouldn't be talking about dream-teams and having people lecture that 'Casey is innocent until proven guilty,' because she is obviously guilty of misplacing her child who turned up dead after she didn't report her missing and then didn't lift a little finger to help find her. That should be all we need to know to put this babe away.

 

[trixi491]

Think it over this way: In this theory, Casey thought a good friend was taking care of Caylee so she didn't have to - Casey had NO IDEA that this person was a stalker and that this person secretly was angry with her and planning to kill Caylee and destroy Casey's life. Casey thought she knew this person and she trusted them and didn't want them to be mad at her so she didn't want to turn them into the police that first day. Alternatively, it is possible that sometime after gaining possession of Caylee this person promised Casey that Caylee would be returned on her birthday if Casey was compliant and remained silent about the stalker's identity and there were probably other requirements. Once the police placed her under arrest for child endangerment - which was the afternoon of July 16 ( http://www.docstoc.com/docs/952244/Casey-Anthony-Arrest-Report )- Casey got the attorney and all information flow from Casey to family, friends and police was stopped immediately by Baez. Even after her arrest, Casey might not have thought that Caylee was in danger, although she might have worried about where she was and hoped she was going to be returned by Caylee's birthday. Remember Casey said the person wanted to teach her a lesson and to get Caylee back she had to do something. The question will be what exactly did this stalker want Casey to do? And additionally, the question is why would Baez hesitate to expose this person? I have actually thought of several plausible explanations as to the reason why Baez has not reported this person to police or FBI - and the reasons are very worrisome, yet make perfect sense.

KC has SUCH a huge history of lying that I'm sure a jury would really have to question this theory. I'm not just talking about the lies she told police to "protect Caylee", I'm talking about the lies that she told over the years to her family and friends--that she was working as an event planner at Universal, had gone to Valencia, was dating this guy named Jeff for the past couple years, the fact that she had a nanny she paid $400/week, the sleepwalking story to Amy, etc. She changed her story about what happened to Caylee twice before. She also tells the types of lies that try to impress people. So if I was a juror I would totally think this "stalker" was just another lie by KC, trying to impress people that there was someone sexually obsessed with her. That it was another story she decided to go with. She had enough time at jail to sit and contemplate what kind of story would make the most sense and this would be her THIRD story (if they do go with this type of defense). Her history of lying completely makes anything she says very questionable and I would just take this story/excuse as another one. Also, IMO all of KC's past behavior (prior to 6/16) show shes way too selfish to sit in jail that first day b/c she didn't want this person to be mad at her. If KC was really a good mother and loved her daughter, she wouldn't go 31 days without seeing her, even if she did think she was in good hands. If you knew who and where your child was, you'd go to see them at least ONCE during a month long period (especially when you have all that free time since you don't have a job!). KC was released on bond after Caylee's birthday so clearly the person didn't return her then. Why would she then not reveal the true identity? I mean she was home and able to talk to her parents all the way up until Oct, and told them nada. Also if this person was sexually obsessed with KC, why not kill TL (someone she was saying she loved, wanted to marry, and was considering moving to NY to be with)? Why kill her innocent, sweet daughter (especially knowing they could get b/c they were the last one to have her)? IMO I believe a juror would see this defense as a third story (aka LIE) thought up by KC during her long, days in jail where she had plenty of time to think if up, and not buy it.

 

[eddeva]

i swore i was taking a break ...
i knew i shouldn't have peeked ...
but now i have and ...

They dealt with the grief the first week or month, came to terms with it and moved on because there was nothing else they could do. They miss their children who are deceased, but have moved forward with their lives in the belief that they will be reunited someday.

*resp. snipped.
they dealt w/ their grief in the first week or month???
a parent, in your view, would normally deal w/ the grief caused by the death of a child in the first week or month? and you've met these people?
for the first time on this board i don't really know what to say.
i'm shocked, and not in that cliched, hackneyed fashion, i'm actually shocked.
in my world the death of a child causes far greater pain and grief than could possibly ever be dealt w/ in a week or a month. it makes no difference that there's nothing else you can do. you cannot make a logical argument against grief or loneliness or hate or love and and just make these emotions go away at will.

i honestly can't believe that you know people, and feel in yourself, that the grief caused by the loss of a child should last so tiny a period of time and that the mother should then make a conscious decision to go do something else b/c she can't change the situation.
i'm a mother and if i posted my true feelings i would be banned.

i'm outta here, this time NO peeking.

 

[Jolynna]

Think it over this way: In this theory, Casey thought a good friend was taking care of Caylee so she didn't have to - Casey had NO IDEA that this person was a stalker and that this person secretly was angry with her and planning to kill Caylee and destroy Casey's life. Casey thought she knew this person and she trusted them and didn't want them to be mad at her so she didn't want to turn them into the police that first day. Alternatively, it is possible that sometime after gaining possession of Caylee this person promised Casey that Caylee would be returned on her birthday if Casey was compliant and remained silent about the stalker's identity and there were probably other requirements. Once the police placed her under arrest for child endangerment - which was the afternoon of July 16 ( http://www.docstoc.com/docs/952244/Casey-Anthony-Arrest-Report )- Casey got the attorney and all information flow from Casey to family, friends and police was stopped immediately by Baez. Even after her arrest, Casey might not have thought that Caylee was in danger, although she might have worried about where she was and hoped she was going to be returned by Caylee's birthday. After Caylee's birthday passed and Casey was STILL in jail, why KEEP PROTECTING the kidnapper? Remember Casey said the person wanted to teach her a lesson and to get Caylee back she had to do something. The question will be what exactly did this stalker want Casey to do? Casey couldn't DO anything, she was in jail. There was no way for her to get Caylee back. And additionally, the question is why would Baez hesitate to expose this person? I have actually thought of several plausible explanations as to the reason why Baez has not reported this person to police or FBI - and the reasons are very worrisome, yet make perfect sense.

My responses are in red.

Plus what killer kidnapper picks a heart sticker off of the mom's heart sticker sheet and steals the family clothes hamper while kidnapping?

Casey's movements from when Caylee was videotaped at her great grandfather's nursing home have been pinpointed through phone pings.

Casey didn't GO to Blanchard Park. She was in her parent's home until she went to Tony's apartment.

Tony and Jesse passed polys. Tony, Jesse, Cindy, Amy, George and Lee all probably have alibis. And I doubt that their cell phones pinged from anywhere close to the Anthony house. I can promise you LE knows EVERY movement Tony made on June 16 and have thoroughly checked out HIS phone pings.

Most damaging and impossible to explain is how Casey could believe Caylee was ok when her car reeked from Caylee's dead body fluid.

How could ANYONE not notice a dead body decomposing in the car they are driving?

JMO

 

[trixi491]

i honestly can't believe that you know people, and feel in yourself, that the grief caused by the loss of a child should last so tiny a period of time and that the mother should then make a conscious decision to go do something else b/c she can't change the situation.
i'm a mother and if i posted my true feelings i would be banned.

i'm outta here, this time NO peeking.

Very true! I mean I don't expect her to be wailing the entire hearing but certainly not laughing. Do you remember that time she was at a hearing and when they brought up the issue of Caylee's remains, she started playing that little "pen game" with JB and laughing!? Laughing while her daughters remains were being discussed! I'm sorry but there is NO explanation for that! And then trying to hold in her laughter when JB started taunting Ashton at the last hearing? Umm, she's on trial for Murder 1, she has no reason to be laughing at anything of that nature. This man has been given the duty of trying to find justice for her murdered daughter and she's laughing at him!? She's so out of touch with reality that it's scary.

 

[panthera]

My responses are in red.

Plus what killer kidnapper picks a heart sticker off of the mom's heart sticker sheet and steals the family clothes hamper while kidnapping?

Casey's movements from when Caylee was videotaped at her great grandfather's nursing home have been pinpointed through phone pings.

Casey didn't GO to Blanchard Park. She was in her parent's home until she went to Tony's apartment.

Tony and Jesse passed polys. Tony, Jesse, Cindy, Amy, George and Lee all probably have alibis. And I doubt that their cell phones pinged from anywhere close to the Anthony house. I can promise you LE knows EVERY movement Tony made on June 16 and have thoroughly checked out HIS phone pings.

Most damaging and impossible to explain is how Casey could believe Caylee was ok when her car reeked from Caylee's dead body fluid.

How could ANYONE not notice a dead body decomposing in the car they are driving?

JMO

She already tried to cover her tracks on this by saying in the beginning of June (as I recall) she'd either run over an animal or "dead squirrels" had gotten inside the engine compartment. Then at the end of June she tells AH that she got rid of the problem (the dead animal). So, her explanation will probably be it wasn't Caylee's decomposing body but the dead squirrels, or whatnot. MOO

 

[Jolynna]

Very true! I mean I don't expect her to be wailing the entire hearing but certainly not laughing. Do you remember that time she was at a hearing and when they brought up the issue of Caylee's remains, she started playing that little "pen game" with JB and laughing!? Laughing while her daughters remains were being discussed! I'm sorry but there is NO explanation for that! And then trying to hold in her laughter when JB started taunting Ashton at the last hearing? Umm, she's on trial for Murder 1, she has no reason to be laughing at anything of that nature. This man has been given the duty of trying to find justice for her murdered daughter and she's laughing at him!? She's so out of touch with reality that it's scary.

So true.

If you have every been around a sociopath, you know that a mother who is also a sociopath absolutely COULD go out in public and hang all over a man shortly after killing her child.

Websleuth's Crimes in the News thread is chock full of news articles about moms who starve, poison, dump, burn up, drown, knife or beat their kids to death.

Killing their children and shoplifting are the ONLY crimes women do just as often as men. (I can find a link to back this statement up if anyone wants it.)

 

[yolorado]

IMO the defense is going to have a really hard time explaining one of these two things, depending how they play it out: 1) If she knew who had her child or killed her child, why isn't the defense out looking for this person?? Why are they letting KC sit behind bars while this person is roaming free, able to kill again and 2) If she didn't know who had her child and maybe Caylee was randomly abducted, WHY did she not call for 31 days?? They can't play it out like they did in SP or OJ's case where anyone could have done it..if her child was abducted randomly, any mother would NOT have waited until she was forced by her own mother 31 days later to report it. KC's excuse for waiting 31 days was to buy time, that ZFG was giving her until Caylee's bday. This wouldn't be the case if it was someone random that KC didn't know. I honestly don't know where they could possibly be going with this defense

I'm with you. At this point, all that KC has actually TOLD THE POLICE is that Nanny ZFG took Caylee from the Sawgrass where KC left her many times before while she went to work, although she admitted not having a job. Since Nanny ZFG doesn't exist and never lived at the Sawgrass, and since that's all the help she offered to find her ostensibly kidnapped child who later turned up bagged and dumped with items from KC's home, I think the only sane way for the defense to go is that there was some horrible event, accident, or she snapped because of her crazy family situation, breaking with reality. The defense would be as batty as KC is if they didn't plead with the state to give her some kind of deal that will keep her assets out of prison for the rest of her life. I don't see court holding anything good for this defendent if she actually pushes her 'innocence' all the way to having it decided upon by a jury at trial. She put herself in a box from day 1 and closed it tight in her police interview from Day 31.

 

[BetsyB]

I wouldn't be surprised if the JB doesn't go for some form of diminished capacity defense. MPD.. Casey has only just come to realize that she herself is "Zanny the Nanny," "Zanny's daughter" "a full time student" and she still has no recall of what she may have done to cause harm to Caylee...

Whatever the defense's argument may be, presenting it in a court room will be a real dog and pony show, if not a full blown circus.

I think the ship has sailed on this--it would be very difficult for him to go this route at this point.

And even if he does, stating that Casey is "100% innocent" is still going to bite Baez in the derriere. Because diminished capacity doesn't support innocence. It supports a finding of guilty but mentally ill. (This is the terminology in my state; FL may use something different.) The outcome, penalty-wise, doesn't differ a whole lot from a guilty verdict: she may receive some mental health care prior to being placed in prison for LWOP.

(I still maintain that the narcissism will get in the way of this defense--Casey will NOT accept this approach, esp. since the DP is not on the table; she might, if she were convinced it was the only way to evade death.)

 

[Baxter]

(snipped Princess Rose)
I have known numerous people who lost young children (in several cases to cancer, in another to pneumonia, in
another case, 2 infants (part of a group of triplets) who died of Strep A within a week of their birth) and most of these parents were not crying day after day for months on end. They dealt with the grief the first week or month, came to terms with it and moved on because there was nothing else they could do. They miss their children who are deceased, but have moved forward with their lives in the belief that they will be reunited someday. The one couple who didn't move on started over eating and now, many years later, weigh over 300 pounds each. Grief is different for different people. I think it is unrealistic to expect any bereaved mother to be crying and somber for months on end. Also, remember Casey is mostly sitting alone in a jail cell day after day. It must have been a relief for her to be out in a situation where she could talk to someone albeit briefly and even at court. Casey had already had 2 months to come to terms with the fact that Caylee was dead. And I do think that Baez is leading Casey to believe that she will be exonerated. Casey probably looks forward to seeing him because he gives her hope.




I am at a loss for words. A week or month for grieving a child's life? At that point in the grieving process, I am not sure I would be able to talk, eat, or sleep, let alone get on with my life.

 

[marla]

Think it over this way: In this theory, Casey thought a good friend was taking care of Caylee so she didn't have to - Casey had NO IDEA that this person was a stalker and that this person secretly was angry with her and planning to kill Caylee and destroy Casey's life. Casey thought she knew this person and she trusted them and didn't want them to be mad at her so she didn't want to turn them into the police that first day. Alternatively, it is possible that sometime after gaining possession of Caylee this person promised Casey that Caylee would be returned on her birthday if Casey was compliant and remained silent about the stalker's identity and there were probably other requirements. Once the police placed her under arrest for child endangerment - which was the afternoon of July 16 ( http://www.docstoc.com/docs/952244/Casey-Anthony-Arrest-Report )- Casey got the attorney and all information flow from Casey to family, friends and police was stopped immediately by Baez. Even after her arrest, Casey might not have thought that Caylee was in danger, although she might have worried about where she was and hoped she was going to be returned by Caylee's birthday. Remember Casey said the person wanted to teach her a lesson and to get Caylee back she had to do something. The question will be what exactly did this stalker want Casey to do? And additionally, the question is why would Baez hesitate to expose this person? I have actually thought of several plausible explanations as to the reason why Baez has not reported this person to police or FBI - and the reasons are very worrisome, yet make perfect sense.

This would never fly ..

 

[spiderlady]

I did not read every post on this thread so forgive me if I am repeating someone elses thoughts on the defense.

What if Bozo goes with a split personality theory and that Zanny is Casey's other pesonality and that Casey has no recolections of any events while she is Zanny?

I am thinking of the movie Primal Fear where the Edward Norton Character successfully pulled off having a split personality.

 

[Green-Eyed Blonde]

(snipped Princess Rose)
I have known numerous people who lost young children (in several cases to cancer, in another to pneumonia, in
another case, 2 infants (part of a group of triplets) who died of Strep A within a week of their birth) and most of these parents were not crying day after day for months on end. They dealt with the grief the first week or month, came to terms with it and moved on because there was nothing else they could do. They miss their children who are deceased, but have moved forward with their lives in the belief that they will be reunited someday. The one couple who didn't move on started over eating and now, many years later, weigh over 300 pounds each. Grief is different for different people. I think it is unrealistic to expect any bereaved mother to be crying and somber for months on end. Also, remember Casey is mostly sitting alone in a jail cell day after day. It must have been a relief for her to be out in a situation where she could talk to someone albeit briefly and even at court. Casey had already had 2 months to come to terms with the fact that Caylee was dead. And I do think that Baez is leading Casey to believe that she will be exonerated. Casey probably looks forward to seeing him because he gives her hope.




I am at a loss for words. A week or month for grieving a child's life? At that point in the grieving process, I am not sure I would be able to talk, eat, or sleep, let alone get on with my life.

I too have friends who have lost children at different ages -- babies to grade school to adult. They have all expressed to me that the first year, as would be expected, is the most difficult time. Even as they have all moved on with their lives, they have sadness and a void in their lives. As one stated: "I am learning to live again, but I will miss her for the rest of my life." This in remembering her 23 year old daughter killed in a plane crash last year. A week or a month of grieving? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

 

[Torrie]

I did not read every post on this thread so forgive me if I am repeating someone elses thoughts on the defense.

What if Bozo goes with a split personality theory and that Zanny is Casey's other pesonality and that Casey has no recolections of any events while she is Zanny?

I am thinking of the movie Primal Fear where the Edward Norton Character successfully pulled off having a split personality.

But wasn't a psych evaluation ordered by the judge early on? If this were the case, wouldn't we already know about it, because they would have already hospitalized her for treatment?

 

[Torrie]

I too have friends who have lost children at different ages -- babies to grade school to adult. They have all expressed to me that the first year, as would be expected, is the most difficult time. Even as they have all moved on with their lives, they have sadness and a void in their lives. As one stated: "I am learning to live again, but I will miss her for the rest of my life." This in remembering her 23 year old daughter killed in a plane crash last year. A week or a month of grieving? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

I agree 100%! My brother in law was killed last may in a motorcycle accident. My mother in law is still having a difficult time. He was in his mid 40s. I don't think most people ever get over the loss of a child, and certainly not this quickly.

 

[Balthazar]

I too have friends who have lost children at different ages -- babies to grade school to adult. They have all expressed to me that the first year, as would be expected, is the most difficult time. Even as they have all moved on with their lives, they have sadness and a void in their lives. As one stated: "I am learning to live again, but I will miss her for the rest of my life." This in remembering her 23 year old daughter killed in a plane crash last year. A week or a month of grieving? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

I think that you have missed my point. My point was that it's unrealistic of us to expect to see Casey or any other mother constantly crying two months after her child was found dead. It's ridiculous.

 

[RR0004]

I think that you have missed my point. My point was that it's unrealistic of us to expect to see Casey or any other mother constantly crying two months after her child was found dead. It's ridiculous.

IIRC, Casey didn't break down and cry ONE time when talking to LE about her "missing" child. You're right...she doesn't need to be crying all the time...she should have been catatonic or numb with grief.