Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

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  • #321
That's why I used quotes around the 'moved out'. I just would have sworn somewhere right at the very beginning Cindy said Casey moved out on June 9th, and then she backtracked and denied saying it. Maybe it was some kind of rumor thing I read as fact, because I haven't been able to find a source for it, but I do know this is something I have had in my head from the very first, so I do know I read it somewhere, and my memory is Cindy said it, and then a short time later, Cindy was denying it, and I was thinking, 'Whatever, I remember you saying it.'
IMO, Casey could have said she was moving out, but then couldn't find a place to stay and had to go home. Didn't she spend the night at Ricardo's on June 8th or 9th?
Lanie

It really appears that CA got her Sundays mixed up and nothing more. Yes, KC spent the night at RM's on the 9th. Yes, she spent some nights over at friends, as many women her age do. What's interesting to note is that Casey was in fact home early almost everynight from 6-10 through 6-15. I'm not seeing any glaring evidence of an incident on June 9th.
 
  • #322
It really appears that CA got her Sundays mixed up and nothing more. Yes, KC spent the night at RM's on the 9th. Yes, she spent some nights over at friends, as many women her age do. What's interesting to note is that Casey was in fact home early almost everynight from 6-10 through 6-15. I'm not seeing any glaring evidence of an incident on June 9th.
She and Caylee spent the night at RM's on the 9th. What "glaring evidence" might you be looking for?
 
  • #323
I think that these two "women" were having spats and arguements and fights on an ongoing basis. I do believe that the first BIG BLOW OUT (with threats and possible "custody issues" being raised) occured on June 8th with KC not returning with Caylee to sleep on June 9th. I'm not sure about the details that week (of June 8th) but I think that KC and Caylee were away more than they were home. It seems to me that KC probably had something she wanted to do on the 15th and that she dropped Caylee off with CA for the day...

IMO CA is a chit-faced narcissistic liar and she's doing everything in her power to cover up the incredible dysfunction that her family has been living for years. Rick and Shirley seem to be the only ones in this fiasco who are genuinely able to understand and face the truth. George. Well George to me...is not even worthy of mention.

MOO. MOO. MOO.

If LE doesn't go after this motley crew once the trial is over I will completely and utterly disgusted. (I felt the same way about Howard Stern and that ding-bat psychologist "pseudo" friend of ANS's and am happy to see where they are now...)

Below are phone pings showing Casey was home early most nights 6-10 through 6-15. Also posted in post 293. Seriously, there is no indication that Casey moved out of the A's house before 6-16.

From our case calendar. KC's cell phone pings appear to support that she was staying at home between 6-10 and 6-15. Unless she was at Lee's or sleeping in her car everynight, it looks like she was still living there. After the 15th she only goes back sporadically during the day.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/cal...o=displaymonth

June 10th: 4:29 pm - cell towers near Anthony home until midnight into the next day

June 11th: 8:25 pm - cell tower pings near the Anthony home until midnight into the next day

June 12th: 6:13 pm - cell tower pings near Anthony home past midnight into the next day

June 13th: She was at Fusions and then Tony's till 3:15am.

June 14th: 3:12 am - cell tower pings near Anthony home until . . .
11:57 am - cell tower pings near Econlockhatchee Trail near Anthony home until . . .

June 15th: 3:48 pm - cell tower pings near Anthony home until past midnight into the next day
 
  • #324
If Cindy really threw her out, why post the myspace messages like "My Caylee is missing"... ???? (not sure if that's correct quote)

It's not making much sense to me if she tossed her daughter out & KC complied - then would Cindy consider Caylee missing? I don't think so.

Cindy, what did you know and WHEN did you know it? The truth for once would be nice.
 
  • #325
She and Caylee spent the night at RM's on the 9th. What "glaring evidence" might you be looking for?

How does that prove there was a fight that day? Casey had prior to June 9th spent a reasonable amount of time overnight at friends for someone her age. Why would June 9th be any different?
 
  • #326
If Cindy really threw her out, why post the myspace messages like "My Caylee is missing"... ???? (not sure if that's correct quote)

It's not making much sense to me if she tossed her daughter out & KC complied - then would Cindy consider Caylee missing? I don't think so.

Cindy, what did you know and WHEN did you know it? The truth for once would be nice.

The way Cindy twists things, I can see where she would kick KC out, then say "my Caylee is missing". Sounds just like something Cindy would do. JMO.
 
  • #327
I say true sociopaths, IMO
 
  • #328
This is a very important post, IMHO. :bowdown:

I, like many others, have assumed that the big fight :soldier: occurred the evening of June 15. The fight was so bad it presumably caused KC to fly off into a rage :rage: and kill Caylee the next day. However, the pings don't support KC leaving that evening or the next day until after 4 PM, and Tony's testimony to LE was that he and KC had lovey-dovey :blowkiss: texts that night into the wee hours of June 16.

If we were to conclude, however, that the big fight took place on June 7, as I believe you are suggesting Bond, then pings start to fall into place. :thumb: So does KC's beginning to spend the night away from home. Even more importantly, it helps provide further explanation as to why the Anthony family initially remembered June 9 as the last time they saw Caylee. The events of those days - June 7 to June 9 - contained significant, memorable events in the Anthony family. :eek:

This, IMO, would mean Caylee was not killed in an explosive rage. She either died in an accident, or was killed with forethought, KC having had a week to think about it, and possibly plan for it. :furious:

Thanks for thinking out of the box here, Bond! :present:

Once again, you guys never fail to amaze.

Wasn't there a girls only holiday planned the beginning of the week of CA's BDay/vacation that KC bailed on? Geo & C both said early on Caylee spent most of her time with them that week with no KC. Could this have been the start of a new round of fighting over responsibility and motherhood? Prompting KC to take Caylee out of the home and spending a significant amount of time with RM. KC had bailed on Mother's Day just a few weeks prior, also. Could these little things added up enough in Cindy's mind to really go off on KC for being ungrateful, a carpy daughter and terrible example of a mother?

This new fight time line makes all the sense. I really couldn't get on board a big fight on 6-15 caused KC to kill Caylee on the afternoon of 6-16. If the pings had supported travel overnight on 6/15-16 maybe, but we know KC had been planning "something" for sometime. Actively since Cindy refused to keep Caylee during the PR trip.

To me, once KC cemented these plans, it all became waiting mode for the right time and may even be why KC brought Caylee home for the trip to the GGparents on the 15th. KC knew she needed to buy time away from CA after the act. If she didn't bring Caylee home for this preplanned visit, KC must have known CA would have been hot on her trail too soon.

I think KC thought on 6-16 she had until Caylee's BDay in Aug. Forgetting all about 4th of July and C & G wanting to take Caylee to see the fireworks. It did prompt CA to go into overdrive, going out to Universal and sending Lee out looking for her. This was why KC had to pull Jeff and Zack out of mothballs to extend "their time" away from home after "Zany's accident".

This scares me that it's starting to make sense of a senseless act....
 
  • #329
Below are phone pings showing Casey was home early most nights 6-10 through 6-15. Also posted in post 293. Seriously, there is no indication that Casey moved out of the A's house before 6-16.

From our case calendar. KC's cell phone pings appear to support that she was staying at home between 6-10 and 6-15. Unless she was at Lee's or sleeping in her car everynight, it looks like she was still living there. After the 15th she only goes back sporadically during the day.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/cal...o=displaymonth

June 10th: 4:29 pm - cell towers near Anthony home until midnight into the next day

June 11th: 8:25 pm - cell tower pings near the Anthony home until midnight into the next day

June 12th: 6:13 pm - cell tower pings near Anthony home past midnight into the next day

June 13th: She was at Fusions and then Tony's till 3:15am.

June 14th: 3:12 am - cell tower pings near Anthony home until . . .
11:57 am - cell tower pings near Econlockhatchee Trail near Anthony home until . . .

June 15th: 3:48 pm - cell tower pings near Anthony home until past midnight into the next day

Yes, so if they had a big fight about KC being irresponsible around 6/7,8 or 9, KC takes Caylee and stays with RM for a few days. KC makes her plan for the day after Father's Day. A few days after the fight KC and C kiss and make up or whatever they do post fight. KC stays at home the remainder of the week to prevent more fighting and because Caylee was such a pain the week away. She only has to get through a few days and it will all be behind her.
 
  • #330
The way Cindy twists things, I can see where she would kick KC out, then say "my Caylee is missing". Sounds just like something Cindy would do. JMO.

SP said Cindy would not throw KC out, maybe she threatened and she felt KC took her up on it.

Caylee was missing because every time Cin tried to talk to her on the phone (daily) KC had an excuse. Then on 7/3 KC said she would meet them at Universal, once there KC gave her a new story about why she couldn't see Caylee. Cin had taken that week off work and everyday KC said she would bring Caylee over tomorrow, but tomorrow never happened.

So yes Caylee was missing from her life and Cindy was in pain over it and she obviously thought it was a conscious effort by KC to keep them apart.
 
  • #331
Most think Caylee was asleep during these blow-out arguments, but I think Caylee might have been awake or waken during them. Add Caylee being witness to these arguments during her short time of life, both CA and KC would have been competing for Caylee's choice who she wanted to be with. Neither CA nor KC would stop a smackdown to calm Caylee down. I believe that Caylee did witness the hands around the neck incident as well as the verbal attacks CA and KC through at each other constantly. Especially the fights in late May and early June.

Remember there were accusations from KC that CA wanted Caylee to call HER momma, not KC. CA was the one monetary supporting Caylee, not KC. KC stealing family and friends money, staying out with or without Caylee, no job, lying to family and friends and seeing CA demanding she is the mother figure to Caylee it is a wonder that Caylee survived as long as she did in that dysfunctional family. Verbal and physical fights/arguments were a norm. It is all Caylee ever knew.
 
  • #332
Just to add to the timeline, KC's overnight stay at RM's the night of Sunday June 8 was not a sudden decision (i.e., she didn't run over there "on a whim" as she would say after a big fight). 12:38 pm (just after noon) on June 8 KC texted Amy, "Alright cool. Im staying at the boys tonight so we can all hangout."
 
  • #333
Just to add to the timeline, KC's overnight stay at RM's the night of Sunday June 8 was not a sudden decision (i.e., she didn't run over there "on a whim" as she would say after a big fight). 12:38 pm (just after noon) on June 8 KC texted Amy, "Alright cool. Im staying at the boys tonight so we can all hangout."

I'm glad you pointed this out AZ. Just want to be straight on the dates. The text was sent to Amy on Monday June 9.

The interesting day is Saturday June 7. KC spent that night at Ric's as well, presumably with Caylee. This is the night Bond is hypothesizing that the fight took place.
 
  • #334
Considering how emotional it probably is for Cindy to visit her ailing father at the assisted living facility on any given day, much less Father's Day, I wouldn't doubt she was in an agitated, foul mood by the time KC showed up at the house.
 
  • #335
In this whole fiasco, I think I would trust Furman before any of the rest of them, besides LE. A bit OT here, but Furman got a raw deal in the OJ trial and was just used as a distraction and scape goat. If Marsha Clark hadn't totally thrown him under the bus, his reputation would still be intact. Clark herself lost the case. It's her fault OJ walked. Now, back to the topic at hand.. regarding Furman, I think if left to his own devices, he could figure out exactly what happened to Caylee. In my opinion, he really is a good detective. Read his books and I think anyone would agree.

He's pretty easy on the eyes, too! :crazy:
 
  • #336
Bond has posited an interesting theory - that the infamous KC / CA battle at the Anthony Homestead took place not on the evening of June 15 but instead occurred on the evening of June 7. IMHO, this is a very important shift in thinking because it could very well mean that KC did not kill Caylee in a sudden fit of rage, but instead had a solid week to think about the deed. This would allow the crime to rise to the level whereby the SA believes the DP is appropriate. :behindbar

To support this theory, I think it would be instructive to look at KC's activity during that time frame, as well as what appears to be her parent's - particularly Cindy's - response to those antics. It is important to remember that CA took vacation time 6/2 to 6/6. In KC's mind this may have meant CA was available for additional Caylee care.

June 1 (Sunday):
At Tony's until early morning - 3 AM. Then back at the 'rents 3:15 AM to 7:00 AM. Back at Tony's 7:30 AM. Anthony's call KC at 7:45 AM - rolls to VM. CA probably never knew KC had been home and asks "where have you been??". No response to the VM so CA texts her at 8:10. Three additional calls throughout the day from the home to KC - all roll to VM.

June 2 (Monday):
KC finally waltzes into the Anthony home around 12:20 AM. Takes Caylee with her to Tony's around 10 AM. Three calls from the home to KC all roll to VM. KC returns with Caylee to the home around 7 PM. This is also the day KC breaks up w/ Ric, and significant text traffic 'tween the two supports this.

June 3 (Tuesday):
At Anthony home all day. Big phone day: 350 texts / calls with Ric and Tony and a smattering of others.

June 4 (Wednesday):
At Anthony home until 3:30 PM, then with Tony for balance of the evening.

June 5 (Thursday - Cindy's birthday):
At Tony's until 3:15 AM. Four calls from the Anthony home post-midnight all roll to VM. At Anthony home until 10:10 AM, then drives out to Rics and then to Tony's, arriving just before noon. Is with Tony until about 7:25 PM, then leaves for the Anthony home, arriving 7:45 PM. During her absence two calls from home roll to VM.

I suppose she is celebrating CA's birthday at this point :birthday:, but not sure how focused she was on it. Besides letting three calls from Ric roll to VM, she exchanges nearly 170 messages with Tony and Ric between 7:45 PM and midnight, with the longest stretch without a text being 13 minutes.

June 6 (Friday):
At the Anthony abode until 4:30 PM, then takes off for Tony's. She and Tony leave go to Fusian around 9:00 PM. They stay through midnight :tipsy:. One call from the Anthony home rolls to VM. Text with Amy at 9:45 PM says "I came into work. Huge mistake. I tried to help setup for an event and got roped into staying a few hours". Way to live the lie.

June 7 (Saturday):
At Fusian until 2:30 AM, then takes off for Tony's. Three back-to-back calls from the Anthony home around 3:40 AM, the first two going to VM and the last KC answers. KC finally arrives back at the Anthony home around 5:10 AM (she takes an odd route that has her drive more toward the airport than normal). Gets about 3 hours sleep, from 5:30 AM to 8:30 AM.

Do ya think that maybe, at this point, CA is just a little annoyed that KC has been taking off to party and who knows what else, and leaving her with Caylee? :waitasec: KC missed her birthday, or certainly did not care it was happening. KC would not answer the phone when they called. Kind of disrespectful, if you ask me. :mad:

So perhaps, around 1:45 PM CA decides to "discuss" the issue with KC. This discussion turns into "the fight" :fight:, and KC leaves the Anthony home in a huff with Caylee at 2:30 PM. This corresponds with uninterrupted time in the cell phone record for such an argument to occur.

Then, at roughly 2:35 PM KC calls the home while en-route to Tony's, but still in the Anthony neighborhood. Possibly to tell CA "I'm outta here and never coming back." The call seems to roll into VM.

Not satisfied, KC calls CA's cell five minutes later, and possibly leaves a similar message.

At 3:10, CA decides she's shunned KC enough so she calls KC...but it rolls to VM. Tit-for-tat?? By now KC is at Tony's, and KC is not about to let CA get the best of her. :snooty:

KC stay's at Tony's until about 8:30 PM - Caylee's bedtime. They head for Ric's, where kids can spend the night. :blowkiss:

They spend the night at Ric's. Unlike previous days and nights, there are no calls from the Anthony home.

June 8 (Sunday):
At Ric's until 1:00 PM, at which point KC and Caylee return to the Anthony home. One call from Anthony home at 11:00 AM. Perhaps KC and CA feel each has doled out sufficient punishment at this point?
 
  • #337
Given what we know about this family, would it be so hard to imagine that a huge fight took place on June 7th, followed by another one on June 15th? (June 15th-the "last straw" to KC perhaps?)
Just wondering aloud...

(On a personal opinion note, I like reading facts that support KC never leaving the A home the night of June 15th as I theorize Caylee was killed in Casey's bedroom that night.)
 
  • #338
In response to JWG,..

I have been working on a similar timeline and I will have to review Cindy's interview I believe of Aug 2nd, last doc dump that the 30th of May she went to Mt Dora and the next weekend her and George went to the beach for the day. Need to check this because.... if Cindy's and George's cell phones have them in Orlando. We have a fight. If not, and they did go to the beach, then Cindy and her could not have had the fight this day.

The above timeline is like mine except it only works if we can PROVE Cindy was home the day of June 7th. Looking to see if a fight could have occurred closer to 7-8 pm?
or
Looks like Casey was home all day the 8th.. could the fight happened that day?
 
  • #339
If Cindy were angry about something Caylee had said to her, I can't imagine that she would have had the patience or impulse control to hold off on arguing until Caylee went to sleep. I think she would have hounded Casey until she came home to have it out. This timeline leads me to believe that the argument was about Casey wanting to leave Caylee at G&C's so she could go back to Tony's.

I agree, (if there even was any argument). Either that she wanted to leave Caylee there and go out, or that she wanted to take Caylee with her someplace at that hour.
 
  • #340
This is a very important post, IMHO. :bowdown:

I, like many others, have assumed that the big fight :soldier: occurred the evening of June 15. The fight was so bad it presumably caused KC to fly off into a rage :rage: and kill Caylee the next day. However, the pings don't support KC leaving that evening or the next day until after 4 PM, and Tony's testimony to LE was that he and KC had lovey-dovey :blowkiss: texts that night into the wee hours of June 16.

If we were to conclude, however, that the big fight took place on June 7, as I believe you are suggesting Bond, then pings start to fall into place. :thumb: So does KC's beginning to spend the night away from home. Even more importantly, it helps provide further explanation as to why the Anthony family initially remembered June 9 as the last time they saw Caylee. The events of those days - June 7 to June 9 - contained significant, memorable events in the Anthony family. :eek:

This, IMO, would mean Caylee was not killed in an explosive rage. She either died in an accident, or was killed with forethought, KC having had a week to think about it, and possibly plan for it. :furious:

Thanks for thinking out of the box here, Bond! :present:

Thanks, JWG, but, gotta give the credit to Devon. :clap: :thumb: I was just following up on Devon's thought-provoking observation that Casey's flight to Ricardo's w/ Caylee @ such a late hour could've been indicative of a big fight.

The more I look into it...the more it seems to fall into place.

Nice sleuthin' Devon! :bowdown: :blowkiss:
 
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