Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

[beach]

I think that was sometime mid May '08 ..

Thanks Marla! :blowkiss:

my first thought was 'not relevant...too much time between', but on second thought, i am starting to feel Cindy's slooow burn...

In CA's mind - she financially supports KC AND her grandaughter and she's the on-call babysitter. she rightfully knows these are not HER responsibilities, but if she doesn't do it, who will? (fulfilling her martyr role). Couple that with feelings of:

-ignored on Mother's Day

-stolen $ from grandmother

-discovered she lied about working when asked to babysit (and, by this time
probably has doubts about her working AT ALL)

- ignored on her birthday

-ignoring many of HER calls to the phone SHE was paying for

- etc, etc, etc....

She felt used and unappreciated. In her mind, CA had done everything to support her daughter to rise to the occasion and become a responsible adult and mother and THIS was the thanks she was getting?! Cindy was burning.


just thinking out loud here.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

Regarding the potential June 7 date:

The EPASS map that LE marked shows Andrews International, where George listed as his work contact as being near N. Pine Hills Rd. between Colonial and Silver Star Rd. when, in fact the address he listed (confirmed by an internet search) is SW, not NW of their home. This place marked on the map is very near exact where I found a home owned by Zenaida Gonzalez and Jacobs Sadonu, quite curious. The actual location of Andrews International is at 7556 Municiple Dr.

On June 7 after Casey spoke to her mom at home, she makes the trip home by deviating toward the Airport which could very easily be to where George was working. The time required to drive from her general location at the 4:30 am call to this address is roughly 25 minutes if she didn't speed, which she may have, knowing the roads weren't heavily policed at that time of the night. The next ping at 5:04 shows her on her way home, the tower being half way between George's work and home. It looks to me like George needed a ride home for some reason and her mom asked her to pick him up. During this trip she places two calls to Jesse G, aka J Grizz. She seems to converse with him at the strangest times. I wonder what shift he was working, as this is before he quit Most of the calls I've noticed to him were in the afternoon. She immediately calls and reaches Rico after this. They are friends. I wonder if she was calling there to track Jesse down.

RM's phone book is very interesting. Even though there has been no proof to connect Casey to the names Jennifer, ZG'z roommate, or the mysterious Gabe in the work email, these names are found in Ricardo's list of numbers. He also has Thomas and Zan listed.

Amy begins texting her when she is on her way home at 5:04 am until 5:20 then immediately texts Rico again after she tells Amy she's glad she's ok. I can't seem to find these text messages in the docs, strangely. By 5:04 she is near or at home. I believe there wasn't likely a fight early on this morning if Casey has just done the family a favor by picking dad up at work. There is a break long enough for a fight in the early afternoon but she calls Cindy on her cell at 2:40 pm so either they didn't fight or she was calling to apologize. Since she is calling her cell, Cindy isn't even home, most likely, so a fight would be pretty difficult. Casey is on her way to Tony's by this time, so that fills up the day. She goes from there to Rico's. I don't think June 7th is the most likely possibility.

 

[Sunshine52]

I think I remember reading somewhere that C&G went somewhere or did something on Cindy's birthday and think I remember Cindy stating that she did not see or hear from Casey on her birthday...no happy birthday...no card...no nothing...???

 

[Mom4life]

I don't know if this has been brought up in the thread but thought I would post it anyways. Here is the interview of the neighbor who heard 2 arguments of KC and CA. I thought it was interesting to note that KC jogged..

http://cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Couty, Jean-0915.pdf

 

[steadychick]

I think I remember reading somewhere that C&G went somewhere or did something on Cindy's birthday and think I remember Cindy stating that she did not see or hear from Casey on her birthday...no happy birthday...no card...no nothing...???

To add insult to injury, wasn't this first week in June was a vacation week for Cindy? She took the time off so she could spend time with Casey and Caylee. I think she states somewhere that she spent most of this week watching Caylee.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

SCARY HUH! Strange how sometimes 2-3-4 peeps hit on the same idea and the same time. Now Friday has me thinkin maybe CA walked in on KC while she was doin it. Hey we weren't there. They did for a fact start covering up at some point-------when the h3ll was it.

I was pondering your thought and had the following thought; CA began to cover up "pizza smell vs. dead body smell" immediately AFTER LE came out with the picture of Caylee taken at Mt. Dora on June 15. That discovery placed CA as the last person that cared for Caylee. I can picture CA walking (from where?), looking over her left shoulder and saying into a reporters mic "It was rotten pizza in the trunk. Do you know how hot its been in Florida?" What day was that and from where was CA leaving?
That is the day she changed iirc.

I'm not making this up! I'm not trying to fit stuff where it doesn't fit. It is what it is. The reason CA said June 7 (yes, last 911 call) is because she was intentionally removing herself from Caylee's last day imo.

When things make sense, they just do.:flashbak:

 

[JWG]

I thought it might be useful to zoom in a little on the window of time KC may have had the argument with CA.

Lots of calls / texts with Tony and with Ric that morning. Remember KC was still in the process of breaking up with Ric :slap: while at the same time ramping up the relationship with Tony. :nluv:

1:09:56 PM Tony texts KC (Anthony home)
1:22:19 PM Tony texts KC (Anthony home)
1:29:55 PM KC calls Tony (Anthony home) 10-minute call

Possibly setting plans for the evening? :dance:

1:45:52 PM KC calls Ric's cell (Anthony home) goes to VM
1:46:21 PM KC calls Ric at work (Anthony home) 2-minute call

Ric had already called her three times since 11 AM, so she must have had some unfinished business to work out. ther_beatingA_Dead

Then, no activity 35 minutes. Speculating now that this is the time window that the fight occurred. Given it was a Saturday, I'm guessing that KC started to get ready for an evening with Tony, and at some point told her mom what her plans were ... rather than asking her mom if she could watch Caylee :nono:. Given that KC rolled in after 5 AM that morning after having to be call home not once, not twice, but three times after 3:30 AM, I can bet that CA was more than a little steamed.

For the most part this jives well with neighbor Jean's recollection of one of two fights she witnessed. On both occasions Jean was outside doing work, and June 7 would fit because there was no rain that day. It was afternoon, and on a weekend. Now Jean could not quite remember if the arguments occurred at the end of May or beginning of June, but given her interview was in September it makes sense that it would be difficult to ratchet down a specific day. I also note that Jean said the arguments were one-sided, with KC doing all the screaming and cursing. :cursing:

2:22:54 PM Ryan P. calls KC (Anthony home) 1-minute call
2:34:55 PM KC calls Anthony home while in the Anthony neighborhood - 47-second call.
2:40:03 PM KC calls CA cell phone - goes to VM, leaves no message. Pings somewhere between Curry Ford and the 408.
3:06:22 PM CA calls KC - KC let's it roll to VM. Pings from Tony's apartment.

After the first argument KC took off jogging. After the second argument she took off driving the Pontiac. Now, Jean did not see Caylee leave with KC that second time, but that does not mean she did not turn right back around and get her. That could explain her call to the home as she was leaving..."OK, FINE mom, if you want me to watch Caylee I'll just take her with me then." :razz:It is also possible Jean mixed her memory of the event with another time seeing KC leave the home without Caylee, and Caylee actually was with KC. :waitasec:

 

[Brini]

That's what makes me wonder how in the world CA can deny they had a fight. I was also trying to remember if the neighbors reported they heard the fight and what time it occurred. I know I read it somewhere, but can't recall. I think trouble had been stewing for quite sometime, what with CA visiting a therapist to try to figure out what to do about Casey and all. In my opinion, I also think CA does feel some guilt about what happened to Caylee. For what it's worth I don't think she should, but I bet she does. Here she's been watching Caylee all day, Casey finally decides to grace them with her presence and what does she do? Immediately gets on the phone with Tony. Now that would tick me off just a bit too.

CA may be a lousy mother. But, lousy parenting doesn't necessarily breed child murderers. Some of the finest people on this list came from horrible homes.

I agree. I think KC is adept at pushing the guilt buttons, and the family is only at fault for letting her do it.

KC is a monster. Nobody really knows what causes that. But, ultimately, adults are responsible for the consequences of their behavior, and most sociopaths are not murderers. Period.

 

[Brini]

This is a perfect example as to why ZG needs to clear her name. This type of stuff lives on forever.

Exactly.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Considering how emotional it probably is for Cindy to visit her ailing father at the assisted living facility on any given day, much less Father's Day, I wouldn't doubt she was in an agitated, foul mood by the time KC showed up at the house.

Yes, and along with all of the other conditions leading up to this day that are being discussed here like CA's B-day and having received no special treatment, CA's vacation and having received no special consideration and CA's continuation of trying to get the point across to KC that she can't just come and go as she pleases all led up to something very bad - an explosion of some sort.

Many of us here have come to the crossroad when a woman "changes". A few months ago, in the parking lot, peeps were talking about this subject. I chimed in and was saying "hate it, hormonal wreck, blah,blah,blah." A young woman posted "my friend, much older than me, is so different. She used to be my best friend. How long will this last? I miss her so much." I felt kind of funny and stated, "I never went ballistic or anything." The tone of her post was strange and I got this weird sense it was KC posting referring to her relationship with CA. An eerie feeling came over me.

There is a sudden change in ones energy level (at least with me) that happens with the change. Once a woman who had always fixed this, delt with that, figured this out, aided this and that, ran here and back again, washed this and that and that and this again and again, told everyone everyday where this is and where that is and did you remember to do that, planted and folded and made and cleaned and packed and registered and distributed and collected and called and answered and went and volunteered and cut out coupons and shopped and shopped and vacuumed and washed and dusted and cleaned and learned and decorated and gathered and looked after and read to and wrote to and mailed and communicated and gathered gifts and wrapped and thanked and remembered and swept and nursed and dentist and doctor and covered down and paid bills and filed and entertained and cooked and studied Martha Stewart style and entertained and planned and carried out and fell down on floor and still entertained and moved and moved again and again and buried soldiers and cried and comforted and moved and buried neighbor and cried and fought cancer and cried and moved and waited through war and cried and prayed and prayed and carried on everyday because that is what women do.

Let's just say, it comes as quite a shock to the peeps around you when you don't/can't/won't do all those things single handedly anymore.

I have a feeling CA had/was coming to this place and something went terribly wrong. She had been the backbone we have to admit that. Right or wrong whatever the personality, it was she who ran that ship. Her "mates" were happy as long as she kept running it while taking care of everything at the same time. Her gas tank stayed full (unlike everyone elses who could not rub two sticks together to build any sort of lasting fire in her case) until it finally ran out of gas for the first time ever. And the world came tumbling down. The end.

 

[Brini]

--emphasis mine

I'm not sure about the choking incident, but I can believe there was a BIG fight because we have proof (audio/video tapes) that show us how they interacted. Their relationship was extremely volatile...a ticking timebomb. Their dance consisted of yelling, degrading, cursing, manipulating and vying for control. They had zero respect for each other. KC might be lying about the choking incident, but I have very little doubt that there was a big fight - bigger and dirtier than ever - that precipitated Caylee's murder. Also, consider KC's statement to her brother, "...because I'm a spiteful b*tch."

I don't believe it just because KC said it, thats for sure! lol

Yeah. A hornet's nest can't have TWO queens. ;-)

 

[AZlawyer]

I thought it might be useful to zoom in a little on the window of time KC may have had the argument with CA.

Lots of calls / texts with Tony and with Ric that morning. Remember KC was still in the process of breaking up with Ric :slap: while at the same time ramping up the relationship with Tony. :nluv:

1:09:56 PM Tony texts KC (Anthony home)
1:22:19 PM Tony texts KC (Anthony home)
1:29:55 PM KC calls Tony (Anthony home) 10-minute call

Possibly setting plans for the evening? :dance:

1:45:52 PM KC calls Ric's cell (Anthony home) goes to VM
1:46:21 PM KC calls Ric at work (Anthony home) 2-minute call

Ric had already called her three times since 11 AM, so she must have had some unfinished business to work out. ther_beatingA_Dead

Then, no activity 35 minutes. Speculating now that this is the time window that the fight occurred. Given it was a Saturday, I'm guessing that KC started to get ready for an evening with Tony, and at some point told her mom what her plans were ... rather than asking her mom if she could watch Caylee :nono:. Given that KC rolled in after 5 AM that morning after having to be call home not once, not twice, but three times after 3:30 AM, I can bet that CA was more than a little steamed.

For the most part this jives well with neighbor Jean's recollection of one of two fights she witnessed. On both occasions Jean was outside doing work, and June 7 would fit because there was no rain that day. It was afternoon, and on a weekend. Now Jean could not quite remember if the arguments occurred at the end of May or beginning of June, but given her interview was in September it makes sense that it would be difficult to ratchet down a specific day. I also note that Jean said the arguments were one-sided, with KC doing all the screaming and cursing. :cursing:

2:22:54 PM Ryan P. calls KC (Anthony home) 1-minute call
2:34:55 PM KC calls Anthony home while in the Anthony neighborhood - 47-second call.
2:40:03 PM KC calls CA cell phone - goes to VM, leaves no message. Pings somewhere between Curry Ford and the 408.
3:06:22 PM CA calls KC - KC let's it roll to VM. Pings from Tony's apartment.

After the first argument KC took off jogging. After the second argument she took off driving the Pontiac. Now, Jean did not see Caylee leave with KC that second time, but that does not mean she did not turn right back around and get her. That could explain her call to the home as she was leaving..."OK, FINE mom, if you want me to watch Caylee I'll just take her with me then." :razz:It is also possible Jean mixed her memory of the event with another time seeing KC leave the home without Caylee, and Caylee actually was with KC. :waitasec:

Neighbor Jean also said that the fights were about a month before Caylee was announced "missing." So sometime in between the end of May and June 15 or so.

 

[Brini]

Yes, and along with all of the other conditions leading up to this day that are being discussed here like CA's B-day and having received no special treatment, CA's vacation and having received no special consideration and CA's continuation of trying to get the point across to KC that she can't just come and go as she pleases all led up to something very bad - an explosion of some sort.

Many of us here have come to the crossroad when a woman "changes". A few months ago, in the parking lot, peeps were talking about this subject. I chimed in and was saying "hate it, hormonal wreck, blah,blah,blah." A young woman posted "my friend, much older than me, is so different. She used to be my best friend. How long will this last? I miss her so much." I felt kind of funny and stated, "I never went ballistic or anything." The tone of her post was strange and I got this weird sense it was KC posting referring to her relationship with CA. An eerie feeling came over me.

There is a sudden change in ones energy level (at least with me) that happens with the change. Once a woman who had always fixed this, delt with that, figured this out, aided this and that, ran here and back again, washed this and that and that and this again and again, told everyone everyday where this is and where that is and did you remember to do that, planted and folded and made and cleaned and packed and registered and distributed and collected and called and answered and went and volunteered and cut out coupons and shopped and shopped and vacuumed and washed and dusted and cleaned and learned and decorated and gathered and looked after and read to and wrote to and mailed and communicated and gathered gifts and wrapped and thanked and remembered and swept and nursed and dentist and doctor and covered down and paid bills and filed and entertained and cooked and studied Martha Stewart style and entertained and planned and carried out and fell down on floor and still entertained and moved and moved again and again and buried soldiers and cried and comforted and moved and buried neighbor and cried and fought cancer and cried and moved and waited through war and cried and prayed and prayed and carried on everyday because that is what women do.

Let's just say, it comes as quite a shock to the peeps around you when you don't/can't/won't do all those things single handedly anymore.

I have a feeling CA had/was coming to this place and something went terribly wrong. She had been the backbone we have to admit that. Right or wrong whatever the personality, it was she who ran that ship. Her "mates" were happy as long as she kept running it while taking care of everything at the same time. Her gas tank stayed full (unlike everyone elses who could not rub two sticks together to build any sort of lasting fire in her case) until it finally ran out of gas for the first time ever. And the world came tumbling down. The end.

She DID say that she was "sick of KC's leaching and mooching."

And then, there's GA, the employment-challenged.

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

She DID say that she was "sick of KC's leaching and mooching."

And then, there's GA, the employment-challenged.

Brini...ROFLMAO on GA ^5

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Speaking of hormones, that's what 22 year olds are made of.
KC is an opportunist. She was plotting her course continuously to her best advantage. When CA cracked down against the on demand childcare, and TL refused to play house with KC AND Caylee, KC took her third option which was to stay with RM who was the old boytoy by then (but he allowed for Caylee). KC had a pecking order and her phone calls seem to reflect that.

Caylee is gone because of irresponsibility, lack of concern for her needs above all of the adult's needs involved and bad timing (KC meets TL). Poor little girl. Such a precious child who was in the way of what KC wanted to do and the bad judgment of them all imo.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

She DID say that she was "sick of KC's leaching and mooching."

And then, there's GA, the employment-challenged.

I know. Wouldn't you be?

I'd also be sick of GA (unless he was doing everything else there was to be done around there - go figure!).

 

[reeseeva]

She DID say that she was "sick of KC's leaching and mooching."
And then, there's GA, the employment-challenged.

Bold mine

She created it, just as she did in George, it was her supply IMHO

Speaking of hormones, that's what 22 year olds are made of.
KC is an opportunist. She was plotting her course continuously to her best advantage. When CA cracked down against the on demand childcare, and TL refused to play house with KC AND Caylee, KC took her third option which was to stay with RM who was the old boytoy by then (but he allowed for Caylee). KC had a pecking order and her phone calls seem to reflect that.
Caylee is gone because of irresponsibility, lack of concern for her needs above all of the adult's needs involved and bad timing (KC meets TL). Poor little girl. Such a precious child who was in the way of what KC wanted to do and the bad judgment of them all imo.

Bold mine

Desperate people do desperate things. Any port in a storm for KC.

The storm was Hopespring Drive, the casualty, Caylee Marie Anthony

 

[Searchfortruth]

Great posts on this thread concerning the first week of June and a fight in the A home. This was Cindy's week off of work and her Birthday. Casey left Caylee, for most of the week, to be cared for by Cindy. I can't see an argument not happening given Casey's behavior. There is also the information from Debbie P (Cindy's supervisor) where she tells Detectives about a fight in this same time frame. Debbie says this fight happened before Cindy started complaining that Casey wouldn't let her talk to Caylee (prior to June 16). Cindy told Debbie, when she came back to work from that week's vacation, that Casey was hardly there and she watched Caylee most of the time that week.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530380/detail.html

Info on interview w/ Debbie P. on page 3067

 

[scratchthatitch]

It appears BOTH women were finding themselves rapidly falling toward an inevitable confrontation(s) in their own lives AND with each other. Juggling their unraveling respective facades was proving too much to manage, and a bold move had to be taken before they suffered the consequences of their denial/lies. Again, the "Perfect Storm" analogy comes in to play during those first weeks of June... and darling little Caylee was the ultimate sacrifice

Slightly OT,
My Hubby has a background in Psych, and I recall long ago, he was relating something he was reading (probably Freudian as it sounded pretty laden with male-centric ideals and female slandering) about the confluence of two pivotal moments in a females life that revolve around the Mother and her Oldest Daughter.

The premise, FWIR, surrounds the timing of the Daughter's life- blossoming into adulthood and coming into her own sexuality, and the complex interplay with the Mother's own journey away from her sexuality(menopause) and lose of value with her inability to bear children.

If not in a healthy, supportive environment for both women, a perceived threat can take seed in the Mother. The Daughter's inevitable ascent into adulthood is then (temporarily) repressed by the Mother in an attempt to delay her own departure. The Daughter rebels against the repression and flaunts her sexuality in return. An undercurrent of rivalry develops as the trust between the women erodes while they each react to their own societal value..

Again, this is only a vague recollection of what he told me. Take it for what it's worth...:crazy:

 

[reeseeva]

It appears BOTH women were finding themselves rapidly falling toward an inevitable confrontation(s) in their own lives AND with each other. Juggling their unraveling respective facades was proving too much to manage, and a bold move had to be taken before they suffered the consequences of their denial/lies. Again, the "Perfect Storm" analogy comes in to play during those first weeks of June... and darling little Caylee was the ultimate sacrifice

Slightly OT,
My Hubby has a background in Psych, and I recall long ago, he was relating something he was reading (probably Freudian as it sounded pretty laden with male-centric ideals and female slandering) about the confluence of two pivotal moments in a females life that revolve around the Mother and her Oldest Daughter.

The premise, FWIR, surrounds the timing of the Daughter's life- blossoming into adulthood and coming into her own sexuality, and the complex interplay with the Mother's own journey away from her sexuality(menopause) and lose of value with her inability to bear children.

If not in a healthy, supportive environment for both women, a perceived threat can take seed in the Mother. The Daughter's inevitable ascent into adulthood is then (temporarily) repressed by the Mother in an attempt to delay her own departure. The Daughter rebels against the repression and flaunts her sexuality in return. An undercurrent of rivalry develops as the trust between the women erodes while they each react to their own societal value..

Again, this is only a vague recollection of what he told me. Take it for what it's worth...:crazy:

:clap::clap::clap: Great Post!