Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[CDS22]

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/10/rebecca-zahau-case-max-shacknai-autopsy-review/

This is an excerpt of the hinky link you just posted earlier

No one could save Max, once he fell. The fatal damage was done before anyone even found him. You see, Max suffered a tragic, somewhat rare injury that was not fixable. Somewhere, during his fall, he sustained a *neck hyperextension injury that* essentially “unplugged” his spinal cord from his brainstem. The injury didn’t sever the cord– or cardiac arrest would have been irreversible. But the hyperextension injury stretched Max’s spinal cord in such an extreme manner, that he essentially almost unplugged his spinal cord from his brainstem. This produced the cardiac arrest at the scene. There is no amount or quality of CPR or advanced care that can overcome a shredded spinal cord at the junction of the brainstem. The fall set in motion the series of events that lead to his death 4 days later. The autopsy report confirms this. And for those who are conspiracy theorists…no assassin is that lucky; no way. It was an accident.

There are two separate articles about MS's death on the Hinky Meter. One analyzes his fall, the other his autopsy. One author doesn't believe MS was injured the way it's been claimed. The other author discusses the injuries sustained. I agree with some parts of both articles. I don't believe that the whiplash death is necessarily linked to MS's fall, not the way it's been described to us. I also believe that there might be more evidence that they're withholding from the public that might make the accident ruling make more sense. JMO.

 

[SunnieRN]

There are two separate articles about MS's death on the Hinky Meter. One analyzes his fall, the other his autopsy. One author doesn't believe MS was injured the way it's been claimed. The other author discusses the injuries sustained. I agree with some parts of both articles. I don't believe that the whiplash death is necessarily linked to MS's fall, not the way it's been described to us. I also believe that there might be more evidence that they're withholding from the public that might make the accident ruling make more sense. JMO.

What information, in your opinion, has been withheld? Di you have any theories about how Max's fall occurred? How he sustained the injuries?

imho, the fall could have caused the facial injuries, a c pine collar could account for the linear neck marks.

 

[KarenM]

I believe that they feel the spinal cord injury happened from the force of him falling on his face, kind of like when your neck snaps back and you get whiplash. Jmo.

My relative said if he was to choose between a fall and a chandelier as the cause of the unplugged spinal cord, he would choose the fall. Although rare, a head first fall was still possible to produce enough force to twist one's neck/head to such a degree. A fallen chandelier, extremely unlikely.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

I'm new to this site, and this investigation, but is it possible that he was standing on the top railing for some reason? Maybe he thought he might swing on the chandelier, climbed up onto the railing, and jumped off towards it, thinking he could grab it? If he was trying to grab for the chandelier, that might explain why he didn't instinctively cover his face with his hands? If he did succeed in grabbing it, or even if he just hit it, that might explained how it fell. If he "face-planted" into the floor, then the chandelier fell after him and hit his back, that might explain the marks on his back. It might have initially hit him in the back and then come to rest off to the side rather than directly on top of him.

Even if he didn't jump off the rail on purpose, if he was standing on it for some reason and lost his footing, he might have grabbed for the chandelier to try to catch himself.

I know chandeliers are supposed to be attached rather securely, but this one clearly was not. Unless someone climbed up and unscrewed it from the ceiling, it fell. I don't think that's disputed. Unless there is an indication that someone did unscrew it?

My thought all along has been that he was standing on the railing and either jumped, to try to swing from chandelier, or fell. IDK.

IMO

 

[katydid23]

My thought all along has been that he was standing on the railing and either jumped, to try to swing from chandelier, or fell. IDK.

IMO

I agree that the injuries he had seem to imply that scenario, that he was standing on the railing and jumped out toward the chandelier.
But I just cannot understand what would prompt him to do something like that. I know he was only 6, but in my experience, even 6 yr olds know about heights and gravity and pain. Max was a very smart kid. He knew that jumping on a chandelier was a stupid decision, imo.
And it was 10 am, he was playing alone, had just eaten breakfast. I do not see any reason, like friends daring him, or an audience to impress, for him to do such a ridiculous thing like try to swing on a glass chandelier from an upstairs balcony. I really cannot buy that scenario with out having more information. imoo

 

[MyBelle]

There are two separate articles about MS's death on the Hinky Meter. One analyzes his fall, the other his autopsy. One author doesn't believe MS was injured the way it's been claimed. The other author discusses the injuries sustained. I agree with some parts of both articles. I don't believe that the whiplash death is necessarily linked to MS's fall, not the way it's been described to us. I also believe that there might be more evidence that they're withholding from the public that might make the accident ruling make more sense. JMO.

Those are opinions and not expert analysis. It is irresponsible to suggest there was no saving Max when others do survive such injuries with immediate, proper life saving.

I do not believe LE are withholding any evidence, I think the point of JS' request to investigate protocols is because the ME reached a conclusion without adequate evidence in regard to Max.

According to RN's statement to LE, there were no witnesses to Max's fall. According to first responders, his body had a scooter across his legs, a shattered chandelier nearby and nobody was doing CPR. Yet, the ME concluded it was an accident even though there is no plausible explanation for the scooter or the chandelier. He died for lack of circulated oxygen to his brain and heart even though EMT's were there within minutes.

It is impossible to reach a conclusion of accident with any degree of certainty with so much left unexplained, yet the ME did just that.

If I was Max's parent, I'd question his protocol of reaching such a determination. I've thought all along he did so just out of respect for RN's family and not wanting to accuse her of being responsible. In doing so, that is a serious disservice to Max and his family, who have been trashed by unfounded speculation.

JMO

 

[stilettos]

Those are opinions and not expert analysis. It is irresponsible to suggest there was no saving Max when others do survive such injuries with immediate, proper life saving.

I do not believe LE are withholding any evidence, I think the point of JS' request to investigate protocols is because the ME reached a conclusion without adequate evidence in regard to Max.

According to RN's statement to LE, there were no witnesses to Max's fall. According to first responders, his body had a scooter across his legs, a shattered chandelier nearby and nobody was doing CPR. Yet, the ME concluded it was an accident even though there is no plausible explanation for the scooter or the chandelier. He died for lack of circulated oxygen to his brain and heart even though EMT's were there within minutes.

It is impossible to reach a conclusion of accident with any degree of certainty with so much left unexplained, yet the ME did just that.

If I was Max's parent, I'd question his protocol of reaching such a determination. I've thought all along he did so just out of respect for RN's family and not wanting to accuse her of being responsible. In doing so, that is a serious disservice to Max and his family, who have been trashed by unfounded speculation.

JMO

BBM As to the above bolded by me...I believe the same is true of Rebecca's death and both cases should be reviewed by an independent panel of investigators not from that area. MOO

 

[SunnieRN]

Natasha Richardson FELL. The term "smacked" just means hit in the head. A hardy, icy surface would produce a "smack". Curious that MS allegedly fell but didn't get the brain bleed associated with fatal falls. And that's just my opinion.

This is probably because the whiplash that sustained Max's neck injuries, also protected his brain from bleeding. He did fall onto carpet, not on hard, slick ice.

My Belle, from your statement above 'there was no saving Max when others do survive such injuries with immediate, proper life saving.' There have been many experts that have 'weighed in' on Max's accident.

Max was alive, on machines to sustain his life. How do you know that Max was not given 'proper life saving' measures?

 

[MyBelle]

I agree that the injuries he had seem to imply that scenario, that he was standing on the railing and jumped out toward the chandelier.
But I just cannot understand what would prompt him to do something like that. I know he was only 6, but in my experience, even 6 yr olds know about heights and gravity and pain. Max was a very smart kid. He knew that jumping on a chandelier was a stupid decision, imo.
And it was 10 am, he was playing alone, had just eaten breakfast. I do not see any reason, like friends daring him, or an audience to impress, for him to do such a ridiculous thing like try to swing on a glass chandelier from an upstairs balcony. I really cannot buy that scenario with out having more information. imoo

That isn't a reasonable scenario. He was only 6 yrs and no evidence he was a gymnast capable of climbing onto and then standing on a narrow railing, let alone then jumping from that position.

JMO

 

[steff13]

Lateral left merely means it's on the left side. Since they're discussing his neck, it means the left side of his neck had an injury.

I understand what lateral and left mean. I am saying that this may refer to his nose rather than his neck, since it doesn't say neck, it says "ala." Can you please explain which part of your neck is the ala?

 

[steff13]

That isn't a reasonable scenario. He was only 6 yrs and no evidence he was a gymnast capable of climbing onto and then standing on a narrow railing, let alone then jumping from that position.

JMO

How wide is the banister?

 

[CDS22]

That isn't a reasonable scenario. He was only 6 yrs and no evidence he was a gymnast capable of climbing onto and then standing on a narrow railing, let alone then jumping from that position.

JMO

And twirling around so he'd hit his back, legs, and neck and manage to fall just so on his head, not bruising it enough to have a brain bleed, mind you, but twisting it just so to fatally stretch his spinal cord. Ridiculous stuff.

 

[MyBelle]

And twirling around so he'd hit his back, legs, and neck and manage to fall just so on his head, not bruising it enough to have a brain bleed, mind you, but twisting it just so to fatally stretch his spinal cord. Ridiculous stuff.

ITA. Just as the suggestion he was planking was ridiculous. No evidence to support it either scenario.

JMO

 

[stilettos]

And twirling around so he'd hit his back, legs, and neck and manage to fall just so on his head, not bruising it enough to have a brain bleed, mind you, but twisting it just so to fatally stretch his spinal cord. Ridiculous stuff.

Was the same coroner the finder of fact for both autopsies? So, some believe one finding and not the other? Just for clarification.

 

[revampz]

CDS22 I am with you. When I first read about RNs death when it happened, both my husband and I concluded that she had been killed in retaliation for something that she did to Max. I still believe that. As you have pointed out the police only had her and her sisters word for what happened, ie where they actually were in the house. I dont beleive it. I find it hard to beleive that people without knowing this lady jump to her defence to say that she didnt do anything to him. She was only with the boyfriend for 2 years, not a long time, and I am gathering he was sharing custody so there is half of that 2 years lopped of and then how long did it take to actually develop a bonding relationship between the two. I get annoyed when people say that they were very close and she was like a mother to max. For goodness sakes it was 2 years! I am sure they were very fond of each other and I do really think that whatever happened to Max was an accident. But I think it was an accident that evolved because of an incident that was not told to the police. That incident I dont know, maybe he was being chased or pushed while someone was trying to catch him, or maybe he was hurt in another way and thrown over the balcony to cover up the initial incident.. I am also highly suspicious of the last word "ocean" scenario. I personally think that she told the police that to make them think he was on his scooter in the hallway and tripped over the dog. I also think the scooter was put on his shin after the accident for the same reason. Basically nothing in this scenario the way it was told the police SUPPOSED to have happened adds up.

I am not saying Rebecca murdered/killed max, I still think it was unintentional but she was involved.

 

[CDS22]

CDS22 I am with you. When I first read about RNs death when it happened, both my husband and I concluded that she had been killed in retaliation for something that she did to Max. I still believe that. As you have pointed out the police only had her and her sisters word for what happened, ie where they actually were in the house. I dont beleive it. I find it hard to beleive that people without knowing this lady jump to her defence to say that she didnt do anything to him. She was only with the boyfriend for 2 years, not a long time, and I am gathering he was sharing custody so there is half of that 2 years lopped of and then how long did it take to actually develop a bonding relationship between the two. I get annoyed when people say that they were very close and she was like a mother to max. For goodness sakes it was 2 years! I am sure they were very fond of each other and I do really think that whatever happened to Max was an accident. But I think it was an accident that evolved because of an incident that was not told to the police. That incident I dont know, maybe he was being chased or pushed while someone was trying to catch him, or maybe he was hurt in another way and thrown over the balcony to cover up the initial incident.. I am also highly suspicious of the last word "ocean" scenario. I personally think that she told the police that to make them think he was on his scooter in the hallway and tripped over the dog. I also think the scooter was put on his shin after the accident for the same reason. Basically nothing in this scenario the way it was told the police SUPPOSED to have happened adds up.

I am not saying Rebecca murdered/killed max, I still think it was unintentional but she was involved.

I agree with your evaluation. I believe (opinion alert) that MS was harmed unintentionally in a separate incident, and that the "fall" was staged to cover up the first injury. I think that, had RZ been honest from the start and called for help immediately, the child might have survived. That is my opinion only, but I have read a lot about the case.

I find it interesting that so many people in the earliest threads about this case, agreed with our viewpoint, until RZ was found dead. I'm leaning towards suicide for her, because I believe she thought they'd find out what she did that caused MS to die. However, I am open to new information coming forward about the case.

 

[stilettos]

I agree with your evaluation. I believe (opinion alert) that MS was harmed unintentionally in a separate incident, and that the "fall" was staged to cover up the first injury. I think that, had RZ been honest from the start and called for help immediately, the child might have survived. That is my opinion only, but I have read a lot about the case.

I find it interesting that so many people in the earliest threads about this case, agreed with our viewpoint, until RZ was found dead. I'm leaning towards suicide for her, because I believe she thought they'd find out what she did that caused MS to die. However, I am open to new information coming forward about the case.

So...to be clear...you don't believe the official finding of fact for MS...but you do for RZ?

 

[CDS22]

Another thing that throws off the "Max-grabbed-the-chandelier-as-he-dove-off-the-railiway" theory is that MS did not have wounds on his hands. A child who grabbed onto a falling chandelier and crashed through it would have cuts and abrasions on his hands. A child who fell and then had a chandelier crash onto him (odd how that could happen) would have marks on his hands from trying to break his fall.

That means that MS was already unconscious when he hit the floor, and that he did not fall through the chandelier.

Who did have wounds on her hands and leg(s?) from the chandelier? XZ

JMO

 

[steff13]

If he jumped from the railing with the intention of swinging on the chandelier, the chandelier wouldn't have cut his hands - it wouldn't have had broken glass until it hit the floor.

Let's say he jumped, grabbed the chandelier, and his weight was too much for it. It starts to swing, he loses his grip and falls, then the chandelier falls after him. It's not a perfect scenario, but it's possible.

 

[CDS22]

If he jumped from the railing with the intention of swinging on the chandelier, the chandelier wouldn't have cut his hands - it wouldn't have had broken glass until it hit the floor.

Let's say he jumped, grabbed the chandelier, and his weight was too much for it. It starts to swing, he loses his grip and falls, then the chandelier falls after him. It's not a perfect scenario, but it's possible.

If he grabbed the chandelier and came crashing down with it, glass would have shattered in his hands. If he lunged into the chandelier and it came crashing down after him, he would have abrasions and cuts on his hands from the force of grabbing onto it, because even unbroken pieces of chandelier are sharp. You have to be careful cleaning one of those things, let alone grabbing onto it.